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joe_mn

cold weather starting

17 years ago

snowblower starting issue. it is a small gas engine so it might be worth mentioning. 7hp tecumseh. manual recoil start. it turns over ok in a 30+ degree garage. i leave it in the shed and if its 0 degrees or less it will barely turn over. i mean it almost refuses to turn over. why is that? what is the issue mechanically? too much drag on the cylinder/bore? i have a very small garage and dragging this unit into the garage to warm up is really a pain. i almost have to plan ahead a day if i want to use it.

Comments (23)

  • 17 years ago

    The main answer is: Cold engine oil!!
    Think about it: When the outside temp is warm, the oil is warm and the starter rope pulls easily and spins the engine parts, and it starts!
    Change the outside temp. to -05 degrees. The oil is cold and stiff--probably of the viscosity of molasses! Or cold glue! So, if your machine was kept outside the heated part of your house and/or garage, guess what that does to engine oil, that is sort of stiff even in the summer!
    So, here you come--expecting to just set the controls, turn on the ignition, and yank on the rope, or push the electric starter button---and all you get is a low growl out of the starter, or the rope seems stuck, because the engine crankshaft won't turn!
    Try this: Set a plastic quart of 30W engine oil out side, over night, when the temp forcast is low, like 15 degrees or less. Next morning, go out, take the cap off the oil bottle, and pour it into something. And that will show why you can't pull the starter rope on the engine, on very cold days! Sort of self-explanatory, wouldn't ya say?!
    ( I don't/can't understand where we have gone so wrong, what with the great education people we have out there, that folks can't understand, or grasp a simple fact as stated above!) Where will we be in another hundred years?

  • 17 years ago

    I know all about viscosity changes due to temp drop. 10-15deg drop doubles viscosity. but my little old motor has 1/2 quart of oil in the bottom of the crankcase. I can't even turn the motor over 1/2 turn. are you telling me that the connecting rod cannot swing thru this little puddle of stiff oil? baloney. how about if i drain all the oil out as an experiment and see how the motor turns over?

  • 17 years ago

    In addition, the oil around the bearing surfaces, rings etc is extra stiff and is really holding tighter. May I suggest a synthetic 0W 30- if you can find it may be better that 5w 30 dino. Hanging a trouble light to warm the block may get you going instead of pushing through the snow.

  • 17 years ago

    why not simply keep it in the garage then?

    as to your question, yes that little bit of oil can make it hard to turn over. you have oil in the bottom holding the crank, oil around the valves holding them, etc. even though it ain't much oil it holding movign parts in multiple locations makes it real hard to start.

    if you can't leave the blower in teh garage, try putting an incandescent drop light on the engine for a little while before pulling it out the shed. get the bulb close the block so that max heat transfer happens. this is not a job for an LED or FL drop light, you need a good old fashioned handburning bulb popping light with as big a bulb as it will take.

    and switching to a low winter weight oil would help drastically.

  • 17 years ago

    Joe, You never did mention in your post just what weight oil you did have in that tecumseh, but if you don't have 5w/3o oil in it I would suggest that you do change it.
    It only stands to reason that if you can rotate the engine with relative ease while temps are warmer and not while it is extremely cold then it is probably not a mechanical problem because we all know things shrink in the cold and do not expand and bind.
    The flow of oil or viscosity is what keeps that aluminum conn rod journal from contacting the steel crankshaft journal as well as the aluminum bearings on you pto and mag ends of your crank. So 5w/30 oil is a must in a snow king engine or you risk rod and bearing failure.
    You take 30w oil in those temps and it becomes a heavy goo that can create an awful drag on your moving parts. Imagine you take a syringe and you suck up some water it ejects out of the syringe fine , now suck up some molasses and you see what your piston going up and down has to deal with.
    I work on these engines everyday and with what little info you've given us on the mechanical state of your engine I would first look at oil. I wish you all the best in solving your starting issue and remember the only stupid question is the one not asked.
    Jim

  • 17 years ago

    The thought occurred to me that there is a possibility that ice is forming in the bottom of the recoil blower housing. may be worth a check.

  • 17 years ago

    You guys have got me thinking.....My just refurbished older snowbird with electric start runs great but is stored on open back porch in this 10 deg weather......It starts great with its 30 w oil but it would be better to change to 10w30.....also should check the gear box oil level.....take care of these machines and they take care of us, right.....ET.....

  • 17 years ago

    I use full syn oil in my cars and understand it flows better in cold weather but a small engine oiling specs are a little out of my area of expertise. sure it sounds like a good idea but as long as qualified techs throw in a seasoned opinion that it works than i might give it a try. i am not sure what weight i have now. I am pretty sure its not 5w-30. i have a 2 car garage with 2 single 9X7 doors and the blower sits right between the 2 cars. i really have no other place to stick it.

  • 17 years ago

    {{gwi:145097}}

  • 17 years ago

    Get it started, warm it up then drain the old oil. Replace it with synthetic 5W30. Problem solved.

  • 17 years ago

    changed the oil to syn 5w-30. cranking/starting effort is about 10% better. still does not pull easy enough to start when kept outside. it is on the south side of my garage and the air temp is about 20F today and it will not start. the store had 1 quart of 0w-20 and 1 quart of 0w-30 the other day. i went back yesterday and both were gone. not that 0w is much better than 5w.

  • 17 years ago

    This is exactly why the 2-cycle is so great on a snowblower. I'm sorry the syn 5W30 didn't fully solve the problem. Somehow I didn't notice you are in MN for goodness sake. Wow. We're talking severe cold starting conditions. Ya, the 0W20 is probably what you need.

  • 17 years ago

    How old is this machine? Did you pull the blower housing and take a look? You may have one of those once in a blue moon machines that has ice build up in the bottom of the housing. It's worth the few bolts to check.

  • 17 years ago

    its 20+ yrs old at least. today it was 35F. woohoo. started fine. the pull starter has been off a dozen times over the years. broken cords, loose mounting bolts and so on. i have a 8hp troybilt mower that has a tecumseh pro series motor and it is very similar in design. that motor pulls over very nicely. 88F helps too. the blower has a wimpy little T-handle on the cord. maybe a new style "horseshoe" grip would help.

  • 17 years ago

    Happen to come by your problem by mistake but would like to add a couple of things you might not have thought about. Your problem is more than likely the oil however keep in mind that these little engines Briggs/ Tech do not have any bearings in them ( you have a aluminum rod against a steel crank.) So if you get oil that is too light you will burn it up. The problem is that when the light weight oil gets hot it will loose some of its weight. Check with the manufacture before you go to a very light oil. I know that in most cases the lowest they recommend in very cold weather is either a 10w-30 or a 5w-30. Something else you can do but I would put it on a timer is some pipe tape wrap. It would act like a heater block on a car. Have the timer turn it on like an hour or so before you need the machine. You may have to play with it to get a good setting. Just a thought. Good Luck.

  • 17 years ago

    Hey!....I was brought up on the snow ridge here in Chautauqua County, Western New York State....Old Dad had a 1940 Mercury club coupe He used to put a 100 watt trouble light under the hood and cover the whole front end with a good old fashioned canvas tarp. It really helped on those below zero mornings.....Gotta remember to disconnect and remove the cord before taking off .....ET.....

  • 17 years ago

    My cure is simple, walk into garage, flip a switch, wait approx. 10 minutes, tractor starts fine.
    I flip a switch on a 56K BTU kerosene torpedo type heater
    that is positioned to blow on engine.

    this kind in link below


    Another thing guys, always have clutch locked down when starting, dragging transaxle gears along when starting sure doesn't help matters..

    Here is a link that might be useful: heater

  • 17 years ago

    Two strokers usually are better cold weather starters, but to re-enforce them, after running, don't shut the key off until you choke them down to a stall.....It does no harm as oil is IN the fuel.....Don't do it with a 4 stroke engine, as it washes the oil down off the rings and cylinder.... Keep the ideas coming.....ET.....

  • 17 years ago

    I'm also in Minnesota, and my blower is stored in an unheated garage which is often at or below 0 degrees.

    I have never had difficulty with the 8HP Tecumseh turning over. Actually starting is another issue. I use conventional 5W30.

    I'm no mechanic, but I've used many small engines in the winter over the years, and they shouldn't be that difficult to turn over regardless of oil. We are talking about small single-cylinders here, not large car engines running multiple accessories.

    My manual does recommend 0W30 for my conditions but it is difficult to find so I usually just go with 5W30.

  • 17 years ago

    You are talking about multiple things when starting my snow plow tractor, the top of the engine turns a Chevy car alternator. the crank bottom pulley turns a short belt to a 90 degree gear reduction box. My clutch releases on another belt to the transaxle. SO the alternator,gear box and engine all turn together, just not the transaxle. And it starts fairly good in winter with 5w30 above 20 degrees, below that a blast from a kero heater for a few minutes does it. Summer is no problem at all.
    I have also put a "no charge"cut off switch on it so the alternator isn't dragging on engine when cold, after a few minutes, flip the switch so it will charge, does make a difference in lugging down a cold engine.
    I would love to have the belt from engine to gear box be the one that released when clutch is down, but there isn't enough distance between engine pulley and gear box to do it.
    Its only a couple inches between engine pulley and gear box pulley outer edges. I know this isn't typical of most. Just saying..

  • 17 years ago

    i took off the lower sheetmetal to inspect the drive sprockets. when i shift to neutral the wheels will not turn. i assume it is thick grease in the transmission? i took off the plastic pulley cover to inspect the linkage for the impeller/drive engagement. the motor output shaft/double pulley spins easy with no drag from the drivebelts. basically the motor is freewheeling during starting attempts. still pulls very stiffly. recoil starter seems ratchety.

  • 17 years ago

    well if you arent turning anything but the engine, and my plow tractor starts with all it has turning, then something has to be wrong, too thick of oil or could the ratchet/rope setup be greasy dirty and causing drag when its cold? or possibly worn? not much else to go wrong if the engine is in decent shape

  • 17 years ago

    i took off the recoil to check it out. no grease gobs or anything. cleaned the main jet and set the mixture screws and now it starts on first pull in a 27F garage. idles fine, no choke. the recoil has 4 mounting bolts. there is some play in the bolt holes so the assy can be slightly off center and could cause some binding but you would not think very much.

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