oops - I think I got that wrong.
Did a little research and seems that ants are the herders of aphids, not predators of them.
lol.
And I put some extra ants that section!
oh well, I guess it'll be insecticidal soap if the problem presists.

Ants do "farm" Aphids. When ants take those Aphids off your plants back to the nest to feed the ants in the nest, they are harvesting a crop, just as you do. Watch closely and you will not see an ant taking an Aphids back to a plant from the nest, and probably not moving an Aphid from plant to plant.
Ants, part of Ma Natures recycling machine, help you by cleaning your plants of Aphids. You can knock Aphids off your plants with a hand held sprayer, there is no need to use a hose and often the water pressure of that hose can damage the plant you are knocking the Aphid off more than the Aphid would.

Gosh, the amount of misinformation some folks dispense is amazing!! Ellen, as your further research discovered, there IS a symbiotic relationship between ants and aphids, not a predatory one. Ants don't eat aphids but they do feed on the honeydew, a sugary substance the aphids excrete. They encourage and develop aphid colonies and do act as farmers in the same way that humans do, by protecting their 'flocks' from predatory insects and making sure they have adequate food - they will move aphids to new host plants should the need occur. And they will protect and guard aphid eggs over winter. But they DO NOT eat aphids and will not 'clean' the plants of them. There have been studies done that even indicate that certain hormones ants exude may actually 'drug' the aphids to make their departure from the ants territory slower or less likely to occur.

For two weeks I have watched Carolina wrens pulling down Guara stems and assumed that they were collecting something in the blooms for nesting. Last night while deadheading the Guara for the first time I found them covered with aphids. This morning I have been more observant of the wren activity and note they are picking off aphids much like eating an ear of corn, munching along the stems. Interesting!

Hey Nandina,
send some of those wrens my way! :)

As far as "misinformation", garden gal, I have been reading Kimm's posts on another forum for years and find them very helpful, so no need to step in and defend your "truth".

I have been reading Kimm's posts on another forum for years and find them very helpful, so no need to step in and defend your "truth".

{{gwi:144840}}

Seriously? Did you really just say that?

The battle against credulity and absolutes and binary logic never ends.

Dan

yes ants relationship with aphids as well as mealy bugs and scale is they help the insect live and for that they get the sweet secretion that these animals secrete that is used for ant food. and if ants are there and a gardener hoses the aphids off the plant the ants will bring more back as they have a stock of the bugs on the root system of the plants. that is why some gardeners complain that hosing off is no good, they need to deal with the ants first.

rose gardeners in partiular if they are very observant when aphids are on their plants might notice in rainy season the ants collecting the aphids and taking them down to the roots this usually before a rain storm to protect their stock of aphids.

we had aphids in one of our citrus trees all i did was to put a good smear of gel around the trunk and made sure there was no way the ants could find another track and the aphids soon dissapeared.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

Though Kimmsr can be axiomatic at times, I'd rather have an organic absolutist any day considering the sterile state society is in. I enjoy his posts despite taking his and everyone else's posts with a grain of salt.

Well, as a "novice" looking for answers, now i'm confused!!
I have read about ants harboring aphids, and have been watching my bean plants religiously for the past two weeks. I don't see aphids anywhere, only ants. Two of the bean plants are being nibbled on. However, it's only two out of several, and i decided i'm okay with it for now, as they seem to be leaving all other plants alone. However, I am concerned about further along in the season, the ants, and their damage, and yes, the aphids they are known to harbor. Is there anything you can plant or do to discourage ants? To entice them to make their homes and pathways somewhere else? Don't won't to use pesticides, nothing, if i can help it.

This message is to Len. Exactly what gel are you referring to in treating aphids on citrus? I have a similar problem with my small citrus trees currently. Thanks!

g'day chloebell,

the fruit growers use a prepared 'gel' you would need to find a grower supply store or maybe search it online? we use vaseline, it is in most medicine cabinets over here for treating dried skin, chapped lips etc.,.

it does not treat the aphids as such when applied around the trunk of the fruit tree whatever above ground level it prevents the ants access to the foliage as they won't crawl over the stuff, they get stuck in it, so if they can't access between the tree roots and the foliage then they can't farm aphids etc.,.

and then the aphids that are already on the tree soon die out.

and for 'novice',

seeing ants in the garden does not automatically mean you are going to get aphids etc.,. so if tgeh ants aren't harvesting aphids then don't worry about them, unless they are fireants maybe?

some companion plants to try: garlic, garlic chives around the borders is a couple recommended around the traps. the only other is to lay out ant baits (recipes on our remedies page if i recall correctly).

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

thanks Len, great, simple advice. Cheers!

I saw a documentary on ants by some famous ant scientist. Ants also secrete a pheremone where they walk and that is how the soldier ants know where to go- to bring food to the queen etc. If you watch ants they form trails- patterns that they all follow. If you put down something to distract them such as lavender oil, black pepper- something with a strong lasting smell they will get to that place and loose the pheremone scent and turn around. You will then see some very confused ants. I don't know about the whole aphid thing but I do know this is fact. So- if you really feel the need to get rid of the ants- experiment with this and see what happens. I tried this when I had an infestation of these tiny ants which happened to be in an external modem for the phone.It was so gross but I still had a hard time killing these little creatures carrying eggs trying to protect them when they were disturbed. So out came the lavender oil and away they went.Anyway I have millions of tiny ants in the garden this year and I wondered if they were somewhere in the chain of disaster I'm experiencing. See my post on bugs, bugs, bugs!

SOME ants farm aphids.

SOME ants eat aphids.

Different species.

SOME ants eat aphids.

I'd love to see some documentation to support this statement. While you can find countless studies that investigate the mutualistic relationship between various ant species and aphids, I have yet to see one that supports the notion that any ant species is considered an aphid predator or that actually consumes these insects -- unless dead (ants are well-known for 'cleaning up' dead insect carcasses by hauling them off to their nests for fodder).

With the exception of some semitropical leafcutter ants, ants themselves do not damage plants to any significant extent and their presence in the garden does not automatically indicate they are there to farm or herd aphids. I wouldn't be overly concerned about them nor treat to remove them unless they are present in huge numbers, invading your home or are vicious, like fire ants. They are just part of the natural cycle and the justification for disrupting this cycle in any way should be well-considered.

gardengal48, thanks for that, I have spent today swishing ant's in my sunroom, and noticed that they where carrying their dead! and wondered why?
I have aphids, on my tomato plants, and even though they produce quickly, the problem hasn't got any worse (maybe due to all the rain I have been experiencing?)and the ants are more interested in my cherry tree!
I will say hands up, that I am never going to be organic 100% but I use organic methods as much as I can! to the point I am letting the cabbage worms win!!! I have tryed killing them one by one but, sometimes its easier to give up! but I would use chemicals, if I felt it would save a crop! and I wasn't worried about the good guys, such as worms, my raised bed are new and contain no beneficals yet, but so far so good, but I may be coming round, because I have a container of selvin and er scary! not used yet, brought at the beginning of the season, but I am finding I am prefering to tackle the problems head on, and also not too upset when I give up on a plant eaten to death, I just haul it out, dance about on it to kill the insects and ...more compost!

Heather if you can find braconid wasps (they're parasites)at a garden centre near you some species love cabbage worms as hosts and other aphids and yet others prefer other nasties as a host for thier eggs and larvae.

Here is a link that might be useful: Braconid wasps

From what Ive read is yes ants do herd the aphids as what they are after is the secretions that aphids leave behind that they really want, the same secretions that can destroy and turn black portions of plants.