Science or art?

I would lean more towards the science, but even that sounds a bit to high-horse for my taste. I think it's more about honesty, an acute desire to learn, and attention to detail.

Honesty - You have to be willing to honestly assess what you can and cant' grow based on your conditions - light, temps, moisture.

Desire to learn - I love this part! I love reading about orchids, where they're from, how they grow, changes in their climate from season to season, rainfall amounts, dry seasons, cool seasons and everything related. You can't just plop 20 different orchids in front of your window, water 'em once in a while and hope to succeed. Won't happen.

Attention to detail - I probably spend more time looking at roots than flowers and roots say it all in my book. Observe your roots and make them happy and the rest seems to follow. Probably an oversimplification, but I think you know what I mean. Pay attention to things other than flowers. What's happening with that foliage? What color is it? Any weird little things that don't look like they belong there - critters, disease? The more time you spend observing, the quicker it becomes second nature.

My 2 cents for the day.

Kevin

Judy, it takes time the long way to get the hang of it. Learning isn't necessarily fast because you can only learn a limited amount from failures (unlike successes). So until you succeed, you're on the flat part of the learning curve.

Complicating things is that you have to adapt your culture to the season.

If it helps, I got my first orchid in 03. I always did pretty well in spring and summer, but winters everything went downhill. This winter '08 ( a full five years later) is the first winter when everything has been great, with minimal losses. 07 wasn't too bad, but had about 10% go downhill.

Every one of those years I tried to improve my conditions, doing what I could to make things better. Changed media several times. Things improved a little each year, but still winters were the devil.

In 07 I started to get rid of catts and oncids because it was too much effort to provide conditions for bloomings that were mediocre compared to what I knew the plants could do, having bought many of them in bloom.

Phals were easier in my conditions, and I decided to specialise so I could learn faster.

Either that or the magic of year 5 finally worked, and this winter I have done well. But, like Kevin, I believe it was deciding to specialize on the ones that liked what I had to offer. That allowed the successes that you can learn from (Psych experiments show we learn a lot more from successes than from failures, maybe 10fold or more).

In 08

After years of seeing bad science and pseudoscience used to justify orchid cultural practice, I suspect good orchid culture results from 25% science, 25% art and 50% serendipity (100% of which is inappropriately attributed to science). :)

Judy, so sorry to hear you've had a rough winter. The flu hanging on sounds awful. And I'm with you - just when much seems wrong with the orchids, a new growth or a spike will give me hope.

If the Phal was doing well in the West window, can it and other Phals go back there?

Did the Catts and Oncs bloom in the East window before the new building went up? If so, maybe they need the West light, too. Lush growth and no blooms can mean plants need more light but of course, not always. Perverse orchids!!

I've steered away from most in the Catt and Onc families because my unobstructed E/SE light, supplemented by T8s, isn't enough for them to bloom.

Would the nursery owner be able to tell you more if you took plants to him?

Art or science... IMO, it's both and more and not either/or. When most everything is going mostly well, and my ego's going, I think I'm an artist. LOL When things fall apart, I head here to learn the science part.

Take good care of yourself, Whitecat8

Thanks to all of you for your input/insight.
Kevin: Your ideas are sound and practical. It's taking a while, but I think I'm learning what works for me. I need to see what spring and summer will do to my orchids. I know that cool-growing orchids and those that require a lot of humidity aren't for me. Also, no mounts or hanging baskets. I, too, am hungry for more knowledge. I have a few books on orchids which I return to often - maybe it's time to look for more! Attention to detail - not difficult when my collection is so small. However, I'm still slow to register when something untoward is developing...
Which links up with what you say, Mehitabel, about the slow learning process. I'm full of admiration for the way you cope with your freezing winters and manage to successfully bloom plants whose natural habitat is the tropics.
Whitecat8: Even though I haven't contributed to the Forum for a while, I've been reading the entries. I understand that you have also been having a really tough time. I hope that you have returned to good health and that you will find the solution to your orchid problems. Wish I could be of some help, but I'm still too new for that. Thank goodness that there are so many members willing to share their expertise with us!
Corymbosa: Serendipity - I love those stories of forgotten, neglected plants that survive and flower or sprout as if by magic. Hasn't ever happened to me. I would prefer to believe that science has the upper hand. So, while I was administering the first dose of systemic fungicide (tebuconazole, called Bayer's Folicur here) I was going over past problems and seeing if I could find some connection. In August, a Miltonia that I brought home by mistake was showing signs of fungus, which spread to one other onc. alliance before I caught it. I managed to cure this orchid completely with drastic pruning of its leaves and Mancozeb spray, but what if the infection had spread to the nearby phals, slowly attacking their roots? At the time, I remember inspecting the phals carefully. One had lost all of its roots and went to orchid heaven. All the others had mainly healthy roots, were cleaned and repotted and sprayed with mancozeb. But what if the fungus was still lurking invisibly underground, slowly attacking the phals, which, being hardy orchids, took longer to decline? And, because they were removed to another part of the house, they didn't infect the other orchids? Makes sense?
Judy

I love questions like these, ones with no correct answers and a bit philosophical. I think it is combination of the two actually. I think that if you recorded all the waterring and fertilizing you do and tried to schedul"ize" it - you would not have as much success as the seasoned orchid grower who just "grows the orchids". i don't even measure fertilizer anymore, I just schlep it into the water can.

I compare it to cooking (not baking, there are more rules with baking). Some of the best dishes I made I never made before and could never repeat them since I did not write anything down.

People are amazed from across the room, I can tell if their plant needs water. The scientist in me recalls the temperature the last few days, the way the leaves look, and the amount of sun the plant gets. Even when i was out of town, I would call home and tell them to check plant A since it should be dry, or water plant B tomorrow. I am not psychic (psycho?). I just observe. The science of knowing when and how often to water is acquired.

The art of grouping plants with similar water requirements also comes from experience and knack. Knowing how to properly plant plants is part intuition (drainage, sun, wind) and part knowledge (cultural requirements). Art is also placing a shade lover behind a sun lover, or adjusting the blinds to hit the sun lover instead of the shade-lover.

I think those with green thumbs are the ones who can not only grow good plants, but display them well and integrate them into the garden or greenhouse.

Science coupled with common sense.
To grow healthy plants, one needs a good amount of patience, common sense, attention to detail, interest in growing things and observing.
Sorry, I cant see any art in it - I love and look forward to flowers, and enjoy photographing them, but cant see any connection between "the art of growing" and the actual, common sense growing, based on solid principles and facts...The latter works.
Olya

Judy, thanks for the commiseration. Fortunately, my bug lasted only a few days. Being sick all winter sounds rough.

You said, "However, I'm still slow to register when something untoward is developing... " I'm raising my hand on that one, too. One reason many of my orchids looked so far gone all of a sudden was because everything developed slowly, and my eye wasn't educated enough to see it in the early stages.

Follow up to a couple of earlier questions - If that Phal was doing well in the West window, can you put it back there? Can you put all your plants there? :)

Because your Catts and Oncs are putting out leaves but not spikes, they may not be getting enough light.

Also, has the new construction from the East reduced the direct light for a significant amount of time? If so, maybe that's a factor.

If the owner of that shop seems to have a clue, could you ask him if you could bring in some of your plants for him to look at? (Maybe ask one of his staff what his favorite sweets are and return the favor via calories. :))

Olya, Brad, Kevin, Cory - on second thought, your comments about science vs art make sense. My grandmother never used a recipe and was one of the best cooks and bakers I've run across. Everything from scratch. However, she had to have many scientific principles in her head to make dinner rolls so light that only lots of butter would keep them on your plate. LOL She'd learned so much science that her meals looked and tasted like art.

Judy & Mehitabel, for some atypical, beginning orchid addict reason, I went for plants that would likely like my conditions. Early on, it was frustrating to learn definitions of "Intermediate conditions" were open to interpretation: Would all my ____ orchids die?

Judy, this might help. After "Intermediate" turned out to be unreliable, I started emailing or spelling out details of my conditions to growers and *then* asking if a certain orchid would likely thrive. Direct light - direction & which hours; supplemental light & # of hours; temp ranges inside, winter and summer, and outside in the summer; air movement; fertilizer & schedule; and humidity ranges.

Just realized - this is probably a transfer from choosing dog breeds and breeders. By comparison, matching an orchid to what I want & can provide is a snap. Once the orchids get here, though - more science, please.

Judy, hang in there. From what you say, it's getting better already.

WC8

Hi Judy and glad you feel better. This discussion has been brought up before and I think its a combination of everything mentioned but would add 'feel.' Anyone who has grown plants, any plants for many years develops a feel for how a plant is doing. There really isn't a science because there are too many variables and you need to know and understand 'your space.' Your space will never be the same as anything in a book or in another place - even next door.

Growing plants is a balance of light, water, temps and air. I have many outdoor gardens and each spot has its own conditions. They can be 5ft apart yet so different. The same plants will grow differently depending on the spot...you need to figure out why. But the 'why' depends on your curiosity and determination. I am a very stubborn grower who refuses to give up until I figure out why a plant does not thrive. I can't follow a book or expert advice. I need to figure it out myself. Once I truly understand, I decide whether a certain plant is worth my energy and time to continue growing it. As I've gotten older, I find I have less patience and desire to hang on to a plant which just doesn't like my conditions.

Whitecat's analogy is a good one regarding dogs. A good dog breeder or trainer develops that 'feel,' through experience and determination to learn. Doesn't matter what breed of dog or type of plant. They talk to you and you hear them. Frankly, my plants scream at me - Water Me!

As mentioned, it is like a good cook. Its that feel again. You just know the look. The advice I give any new grower is to keep growing. Grow everything you like and learn by those mistakes. Just like you knew something was wrong, you won't forget that in the future. You'll see it again and again. If you listen, you will figure out what to do.

Don't ever give up, just buy more plants and keep listening.

Jane