Suggest you post this question on the Compost Forum. Better yet, why don't you spend an evening reading through the many fine ideas that have been posted there. Maybe they will help you on that Forum to understand what you seek. To date you have received some excellent ideas here, but you just cannot grasp working hand in hand with Mother Nature.

Wait a minute.
So this is your forum?
What makes you the expert that thinks she is so well equipped to tell me that I "cannot grasp working hand in hand with mother nature".
You have no idea how well eqipped I am to work with anything.
The only reason I can figure that I'm the target of a statement as childish as that is that I pissed you off because I didn't jump all over your no-till suggestion earlier.
It's people like you with comments like the ones you just made that drive people away from the organic approach and anything green in general.
As state before, yes I ask a lot of questions- I'm fully aware of that, but I also do not mind when people ask me questions about things that I am more knowledgable than they currently are.
FWIW, I wasn't aware that there was a compost forum. Yes, the question is more appropriate there and I'll post it there. However, because I continue to get good advice/suggestions/feedback here (yours apparently excluded), the question was related and thus it was posted here.

If my questions have offended you somehow (although I don't see how they possibly could have because they were/are with good intent) then maybe it's best to avoid my posts.

You have REALLY put a bad taste in my mouth for whatever your agenda is.

Show me ONE question that I asked that is innappropriate as it relates to organic gardening and I'll be on my way.

Your bark is considered a carbon source, you'll have to mix it with a nitrogen source to get it cooking. I realize it's not very scientific, but when I start I pile, I just shoot for about a 1:1 ratio of browns to greens by volume. If it gets a little stinky, add more carbon. If it doesn't heat up add more nitrogen. It could take some time though. Pine park is often stabalized with synthetic nitrogen and used as a long-lasting soil amendment without composting specifically because it takes so long to break down.

I thought it was a valid question and a good place to post it. Besides, half the people here post over at the soil/compost forum and vice-versa.
(I think you're fully equipped to work hand in hand with any mytholigcal creature you choose. Me...I got a thing going with Puff the magic dragon.)

Thanks gargwarb.

The only readily available nitrogen source I have right now are bagged products, namely alfalfa meal and blood meal...

If I were to mix some quantity of alfalfa meal (or blood meal) with the pine bark fines, would that turn the material into compost per se?

Sorry to be so ignorant about the whole composting process... just don't know if true greens are a prerequisite to compost. I mean isn't alfalfa meal just ground up greens anyway? I understand that I wouldn't be adding the additional organic matter that true greens would incorporate, but my intent is to get the green matter into the soil via cover crops (although I have learned that in itself will probably not be enough.

Ground leaves aren't considered green material are they.... I'll look it up?

If I were to mix pine bark fines with alfalfa meal to make "compost" why would that be technically better than just straight pine bark fines? Or for that matter pine bark fines incorporated into the soil with alfalfa meal also incorporated into the soil?

I'm TRYING to stay away from animal products for the time being (really just to see if I can- I'm not really against it or anything, just kind of thinking if I don't need to, it's one less thing to haul in/unknown to be concerned about.

Again, Thanks.

Looked it up. Leaves are definitely not considered a green material unless of course they are green. Was just confused in that I had seen that some browns are actually greens (as in coffee grounds).

You don't need greens to get browns to decompose, you just need nitrogen which is what the greens provide.

You could just pee (nitrogen source) on the pile and it would compost, though pine bark composts slowly. Alternately add the blood meal. A synthetic fert user would probably just drench it with Miracle Grow or similar. It all works, the point is to add N to the woody stuff.

Justaguy-
OK, I understand.
Out of curiousity, why bloodmeal vs alfalfa meal assuming you meant blood meal as a preferenc?

You mention that the aged pine bark fines (these have been in the process of composting for more than a year already and most of them sink rather than float... apparently that is a test of some sort) take longer to compost than other materials. Would it be more like two seasons or so or more like 5 years? Sorry, really don't have a clue.

And, that being the case that they take longer to compost than say leaves, can you think of any reason why I would want to even consider composting pine bark fines vs the leaves (or straw or whatever) for purposes of applying to my garden as compost?

Also, am I correct in assuming that once the fines are turned into actual compost, then they are no longer hygroscopic and therefor would rewet readily?

Thanks.

I am not certain why you wish to compost the fines intentionally instead of other materials which will compost in a shorter period of time. Personally I would use the fines as a soil amendment and mulch and use other materials for the compost pile.

You can compost leaves just fine, but they too tend to take a good while. Some people like making leaf mold which is basically just leaves set to decompose on their own. Process takes 1-2 years depending how it is done, but it works.

How long to the fines take to compost? Really don't know as I never tried it. I can tell you I use them in containers as a primary component of potting mixes and they don't seem to break down significantly from one year to the next. They *do* break down, but I would say they remain mostly uncomposted for a few years. This is in a container that is watered frequently and nutrient levels including N are kept high. This isn't the same as exposing them to all the microbes in the soil though.

Justaguy-
Thanks again.
The primary reason for thinking I'd use the pine bark fines was that I have a readily available, readily inexpensive source AND, it's something that I have to go get anyway for other "projects". Currently have some lying around also.

However, the fact that it takes longer to break down as you've indicated, probably makes my reasoning unjustified/invalid.

Only prob is, the only other "readily available" known good source of brown material I have is leaves. And as you indicated, it also takes a long time to break down (at least to manufacture true compost).

So, now I have another delimma.

At any rate, regardless, If I set out to make true leaf compost with shredded leaves, based on what you're saying, it certainly should break down faster than the pine bark fines.

Sounds like I'm moving towards your original statement of use the fines for a soil ammendment and mulch, and use other materials (in this case shredded leaves and household waste) for composted materials. Pine bark fines soil ammendment, Composted shredded leaves, green manure cover crops, sounds like one heck of a start to me.

In your opinion, if I go to these efforts, is it still somehow important that I work in straw and some form of animal manure into my "program"? In other words am I missing any desirable components that you can get me considering?

What next (already looking into chickens for the spring....).

In your opinion, if I go to these efforts, is it still somehow important that I work in straw and some form of animal manure into my "program"?

You have to keep in mind that you are working with a sandy soil and I am working with a clay based one. My understanding of sandy soils is they tend to disappear organic matter pretty quickly. I believe in one of your threads someone indicated they also work with a sandy soil and used straw to help retain the organic matter in the growing area of the soil. I would follow the advise of others with sandy soil as I really don't have any experience with it.

In terms of animal wastes, you certainly don't have to use any if you do not wish to. Many manures though, particularly from the grazers/plant eaters provide a good amount of nitrogen. Many compost piles will be a tad on the low side in terms of nitrogen. If animal manures are worked in this tends to balance things out nicely.

However, you can use grain meals like alfalfa and soybean and others for the higher N where needed if that is your preference.

Many ways to grow things. You can have the best of plans, but I don't know of anyone who gardens the same way from year to year because there is always tweaking to do.

Many Thanks.
All of your insight has certainly allowed me to form a MUCH clearer picture of the approach I will take initially. As you mention, certainly, things will change, but I do feel a WHOLE lot better equipped to make reasonably educated decisions about what needs to be done. Without yours and many other on heres help, getting to the point I am on the learning curve would have obviously taken me many, many, many seasons of trying to grow, not to mention the many more failures that I probably would have had to go through.

Anyway, just wanted to make certain everyone knows that I do indeed appreciate all the help that's been given to me in trying to sort out some the questions that have been plagueing me.

THANKS!

have you ever thought of using urine to get your pine bark to decompose? it is nitrogen, on a "how to make compost in 14 day's" thing i saw on you tube she shows about that, we have been doing this, and as long as you don't take medicine and are going to use the compost for food. then its all good. our stuff broke down really great!! (my kids do the urinating in it for me!! Hee Hee **big grinn** thank GOD for boys!! LOL) ~Medo