Permaculture forum

I can remember back into the 1940's we had chickens in our backyard, as did many of our neighbors, probably a leftover from WWII since most people still had Victory Gardens yet. But then people thought there was no good reason to have these "farm" animals in urban areas and codes were changed to prohibit "livestock" in the city. today many places have ordinances that regulate that such as the one in this township that says you must have a minimum of 3 acres to have any "livestock", even one chicken. So friends of ours, on property of less than 1 acre cannot have any animal (other than a dog or cat) while their daughter, next door with the rest of the property, can have all the chickens, goats, horses, etc. she wants.
Because of that there not be many of us with chickens in the backyard anymore.

The loss of small plot farms and urban agriculture will likely mean some difficult learning curves in times ahead. There are many neighborhoods I've heard of where not only are pets/livestock not allowed but simple veggie gardens are against the rules. It seems you must have heavily chemical ridden lawn and ornamental landscaping that is perfectly mowed at all times yet no one ever seems to be outside to "enjoy" it.

Sigh.

Oh and chickens, they seem like a good addition to organic gardening though you will probably find more discussion about them in the permaculture foruml

The farm forum is not just for large scale farmers. Plenty of discussions there for people with small flocks.

Here is a link that might be useful: farm forum

If you feed your hens some oyster shell (you get it at the feed store) they'll all have stronger shelled eggs. They'll also be healthier if you give them feed for laying hens, usually Layena pellets or Lay crumbles. They like the feed and it gives them extra nutrition they need for egg production. It only comes in 50lb bags and runs about $12 a bag, so it would only cost you about $25 a year to give them the extra feed. They already get most of the stuff they need from free ranging so it isn't absolutely necessary to give them anything extra. But you can if you want to.

I agree with you about them being so much fun to watch. It's even more fun if one of your hens 'goes broody' and hatches a bunch of chicks. Cheryl

Eukofios, I have had exactly the chicken community of 3 to 6 hens in exactly the same setting a good number of times. Chickens don't last too many years so there's been a changing population over the course of a few decades.

Next year, my hen house will be put back into use with another 4 Australorp laying hens. They have never bothered the neighbors, lay so many eggs we give some away, and are easy to keep with few needs.

For gardeners, laying hens utilize almost any "waste" in the way of peelings, damaged fruit, and they even eat weeds! With a little preparation and attention to their diet, taking only one step between the kitchen and the compost pile can result in all the fresh eggs a family can eat. And, their hen house litter quickly decomposes and grows more vegetable foods.

I posted a question over in the Homesteading forum on alternatives to store-bought feed not long ago. (see link below) YouÂd sure be welcome to join that conversation.

Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: Homesteading - backyard chickens

We got four roosters for pets about a month ago. We sure do enjoy watching them. They eat tons of bugs & are pretty good at keeping weeds gone too. Unfortunately, they're also good at eating the "good stuff" in the garden. Guess I will have to fence in the garden. Or, maybe I'll just plant plenty to share with them. :-)

Robert in TN

I would love to have some chickens in our little backyard! Our area allows suburban chickens, but my husband thinks that they'd bother the neighbors. Are your hens noisy? I thought only the roosters made a ruckus--is that right? Of course our neighbor has a noisy parrot on his patio so I doubt hens can be louder/worse than that.

We're planning (hopefully?) on getting probably two to four (four is the limit here) chickens next year. :) It's a new thing around here. I can't wait to get them!

Txchristie, you may not have been asking me but not only didn't my neighbors complain but some even brought their kids over to see the hens.

I built the hen house with the idea that they needed to stay warm in the Winter or I wasn't goin' to get any eggs. Hens often "cackle" after leaving the nest. Well, they tended to do their cackling behind well-insulated walls. Then they'd pop out on the pen side. If the cackling continued and we were in the yard - a well-directed, close-up scowl would shut them right up. They were interested in attention from other chickens, not from people. (Kinda fun. ;o)

Forget the roosters. Sorry, I can see very little use for them with laying hens. When I lived far out in the country, a neighbor once gave me 9 young roosters. They were beautiful creatures but the incredible chaos that they created around the homestead was something to see! Briefly.

Generally, the hens are very quite. They were only allowed out when someone was in the backyard. And, you can teach them to stay out of the garden as long as you are out there with them. And, the hens can easily be taught to return to the hen house by calling them. Just be sure to have something tasty for them to eat and it will work every time.

My experience with hens in town, I have to say, is with the heavier breeds. I suspect the laying breeds might be quite "flighty" if there was much going on in their backyard. Australorps evidently don't do as well in converting feed to eggs but one of them held the world record at one time for annual egg production, I read somewhere. They lay very, very well and my other choices weren't very wise ones. This will be the 4th or 5th time I've purchased Australorps.

Steve

My hens cackle a fair amount, mainly when laying. We have a high fence, and after a few months, a neighbor asked if there were ducks here. No complaints though. Most of the towns here limit the number of hens to less than 4, and no roosters at all.

What breed(s) are your hens, Eukofios?

I would like to thank everyone for their comments. We dont know anyone else who has backyard chickens.

We have 2 rhode island reds (one of these is the most productive and the other lays fragile egs and not many of them), one Brahma, and one Blue Orpingtom.

They love eating chopped watermelon rinds, fruit odds and ends, potato peels, cauliflower stems and leaves, and all of the weeds that I pull.

The 3 good layers have shells that are almost hard to break. They do get oyster shells to eat too.

I forgot how to post photos here but here is a link to a photo of 3 of them.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Behind the bamboo there, they look right at home, Eukofios. I've raised all 3 of these breeds except it was the Buff Orpington & Light Brahmas. I'm guessing that it's probably your Rhodies that are the good layers.

When I was a kid, the only chicken on the farm with a name was a Brahma. In a hen house of other breeds, of course, she was #1 Â a gentle giant. The Brahmas & Rhodies I've owned were raised for meat . . . but we aren't talking of such things . . .

After having Australorps (AUSTRALian ORPingtonS) once or twice, I decided I'd go with the original and bought some Orpingtons. They are lovely chickens - very, very quiet but were not very good at laying eggs for me.

I finally more-or-less gave up on them as layers and allowed one of the hens to get broody. All that took was leaving about a dozen marked eggs in the nest. When she started to set, I bought a dozen fertile eggs from another chicken person and switched them for the marked eggs (which were infertile since I didn't have a rooster). That was fun! And, that was how I got the Araucana chickens. Briefly, I think I gave 'em back.

My brother always had Sex-links (good choice) but when he raised some Cornish Crosses he saved some hens and gave them to me. Another of my mistakes, taking those chickens - totally useless as laying hens.

After you chop up those fruit and veggie "odds and ends" for the hens, put 'em in a bag and pop 'em in the microwave for a minute. After they've cooled, the hens will eat every speck of 'em. Wash off the weeds and try microwaving them also. I can hardly believe that hens will eat dandelion roots, but they will! Everything!

You can't get to be much of an "egg rancher" with a tiny backyard flock but it can be practical fun, especially for a gardener.

Steve

Ours love melon rinds too. And rotten tomatoes, overripe cucumbers split in half, seedy things in general...

Steve, I have to ask,why the chopping, microwaving and washing?

Paul, I could get them to clean up everything. If it was cooked, they'd eat absolutely any vegetable piece, skin, root, whatever. The carrot peels, ends snapped off the green beans, outside onion layers, skins from a handful of plums, add some left-overs from the table - cook this and the hens would eat until they couldn't force down another bite.

I tried just about every weed that came to hand. Didn't bother to chop them but I'd wash the dirt off the roots. Keep in mind, they were out in the yard for a few hours almost every day. These were plants that they might pull off a few tender leaves if they were raw but a minute or 2 in the microwave and the hens would eat every speck.

I had to try for some kind of balance and food value. Cooking made all the difference - I think they'd eat complete junk if it was cooked. The hens had laying mash free choice but my purchases were minimum during the growing season. And, the eggs never stopped.

Steve

Thanks Steve - just wondering. I know ours love cooked rice. Organic brown basmati, no less. We bought a big bag with good intentions but it still tastes like dirt - nutty dirt - to me and to my wife as well so we end up cooking white rice and in fall and winter we'll let some brown rice cook on the wood stove for the chickens.

I read recently some cities in U.S. allow chickens but no roosters. There are people in apartments keeping chickens. I would be very happy to have a few chickens in my garden I live in Toronto and we cannot keep chickens. It's all part of the same thing. Some areas don't allow laundry drying outside .There is one question I have regarding poultry. What about avian flu.

Won't "allow laundry drying outside" . . .!!?! Of all the ridiculous . . . sheesh!

Chicks are cheep, cheep, . . . uh, cheap. One can buy 4 pullets (even with a couple for insurance) for less than $20. I imagine that if I learned that avian flu was detected in my part of the world - they could be gone rather quickly without much monetary loss. Hurt my feelings, tho'.

As far as saving money, I learned with the last few batches that I didn't need to set up the old hood and heat lamp. (Which was way too big for such a small number of chicks.) Just wait until July and warm weather to get them and then provide a little "stool" for them to get under in their box. I tacked an old towel very loosely on the underside of a board and nailed a couple of 2 by 4 legs to raise it up high enuf so the chicks could get under it. The box needs to be tall enuf to keep them from climbing on the stool and jumping out during the daytime.

It also makes them happy to be able to fall asleep under your hand in the box as it is getting dark. Takes only a few minutes and then they crawl off to bed under the stool.

What a fascinating discussion this is! I would like to know, how big must your hen house be for 3 or 4 hens, and also, what do you do when you want to go away for the weekend? How about a week? Pay the neighbor kid to feed them?
Do I understand you to say that in the winter, you just insulate the house very well, and the hens will be okay? Or must you heat it?
Thanks. I have always been interested in having a couple of hens.

it probably depends on your location and breed as to if the hen house needs heat. We had chickens when I was little and we lived in southern PA. I don't remember too much about it but I doubt we had much if any extra heat for the hen house other than a light bulb.

Of more concern is keeping the drinking water from freezing.

Our hen house was made with the idea that there would only be a few birds in there - 7' by 8' by 6' high. This is equally divided by a center wall. One half has a roost, nest and a little floor space. The other half is a roofed and floored outdoor pen. The walls, roof, & floor are made with 2 by 4 studs and plywood with insulation bats between.

Two pigeons live with the chickens and along with a light bulb - that's all the heat for this 3 1/2' by 8 foot room. It's completely closed up on Winter nights but the water freezes if the temperature gets down in the low teens. I need to attend to them every day if for no other reason than to be sure they have fresh water. Laying mash is free choice.

Hens are well insulated themselves. They don't need too much more than food and water to stay warm. I've never had an egg freeze in this house.

(Vacations? Vacations from what? ;o)

Steve's digits

i was away for a while so just getting back to the gardenweb. it's great reading the postings in this thread about backyard chickens.

we recently added a light to the chicken house. just a 12 watt compact fluorescent bulb, to make their days longer. we went from about 1 egg every other day to about 2 eggs per day, as the combined effort from the 4 chickens.

we also recently bought a juicer and almost instantly had more pulp than we knew what to do with. the chickens love it, fruit and vegetable. I eat better because now I buy more raw foods partly so I'll have an excuse to give the scraps to the chickens.

until the ground froze, I was digging up dandelions and throwing them into the chicken pen. they eat them completely as well. I also have them the trimmings from raspberries and roses, and they ate all of the leaves. No problem since they are all organic.

the chicken poop production is enough to keep the garbage-can-size composters busy. basically one for the fresh, one for the aging compost, and the third ready for use. these are cold composted, and the red wiggler worms quickly process the contents.

we built them a winter house, the materials were cut from 2 sheets of cheap 4X8 siding, some recycled 2X4s and 2X2s, and some corrogated translucent roofing. It cost about $100. It keeps them dry and lets light in. I'll attach a link. the part on the right was already built, for their egg laying. the egg coop roof opens so we can just reach in for the eggs and straw cleaning/replacing. The chickens are there as a hobby, the eggs probably dont pay for themselves.

i never had hens before. they are a lot of fun to watch. i like to sit and watch them. they come running when i come up to their fence with scraps or weeds, and fight over some. they definitely add to the 'permaculture' feel of the garden, producing compost for the garden, eggs for us, eggshells for the garden (for tomatoes and figs), then eating our kitchen scraps and weeds. so far the neigbors havent complained, although the hens do cackle loudly when laying in the am.

Here is a link that might be useful: