The vast majority of orchids that we cultivate do not, in nature inhabit open praries where they are exposed to all out direct sun for great lengths of time. Nor do they live in very deep shade. They prefer an intermediate niche where the ambient level is somewhat less than full solar intensity and furthermore they prefer high elevation that somewhat extends the total duration of daylight beyond what can be obtained at sea level. Further, furthermore they prefer areas of the world where the annual count of sunny days is well in excess of 300. So, even in nature, orchids are angling for the kind of light delivery typified by an in home artificial light setup. Low(ish) intensity, long duration, very consistent application.

Indoors, one is almost always better off relying on artificial light. Alone or supplemented with natural light. Outdoors it depends. In North America and Europe even in summer sunlight is likely to be less optimal in intensity and consistency than in other parts of the world. Duration is usually not an issue, however, so for someone who wants a break from the expense of running lights a North American or European summer can be just the time to put the burden on mother nature. Of course we have the problem that shading strategies often make use of materials that provide too much protection or too little. It all can be worked out but it is definitely a compromise. So, as I see it, the only downside to lights is the expense of running them. In many parts of the U.S. electric rates are very low. I consider anything less than 12c/kwh low. In NYC we currently pay around 22c/kwh and I understand this will be 17% higher by next year. Nevertheless, unless I should someday find myself the owner of a real GH or conservatory I don't think I will ever again put orchids outdoors.

H

Howard, Howard. Talk to me about this. Until your post just now, all I'd heard was our winter set-ups indoors barely sustained orchids till the fortunate growers could get them outside, where they got the boost that let them survive through the next winter - "real" light - even if it's reduced artificially, heat, humidity, wind, real rain.

As I understand you, you'd keep plants inside year round, at least in our neck of the woods, so they'll have light that approaches what they'd get in nature. Is that right? Whitecat8

It's not just the cost of electricity, it's the ugliness of all those cords and fixtures, the unconquerable clutter and mess (am I the only one whose floor near the orchids is always dirty and whose tables get cluttered up with orchid stakes, ties and other orchid junk?).

Then there's the drain trays that get disgusting in such a short time...

I *like* having them outside when I can justify it. The drawback to outside for me is the worry about harsh storms lashing the big phal leaves. My carts take care of that one. The other worry is whether the light is about right, and the carts help out enormously there, too.

As for whether the light outdoors is optimal or not, you can't skeer me, Howard. I can *see* growth with my own two eyes and gauge whether it's slow or fast. This time of year I get a half inch to an inch a week of growth indoors on the phals. If I get growth as good outside, that's enough for me, and getting some of the untidiness outdoors is a blessing.

I thought H had lost his light marbles on the 1st read. He is clearly sane. It's a read and think. Not a read and react IMO. Howard, my dear Light Guru, you are getting everyone a bit confused though! I don't see this as a change in his overall position with respect to light.

I believe he may be saying in part, indoors has controlable consistency, provided that the indoor light is adaquete. I am too far north z-5. The OP is in z-6, not much better. I cannot control my outdoor growing variables; temps, air, number of sunny days, rain, humdiity. Right now conditions are too cool. I am battling fungus. I don't indoors. I over- estimated the water. My bad. So did Mother Nature- her bad. and she did not make it up to me in heat yet...bad girl!

Another way to think about it:
Clara can sit outside by lake Michigan all day long and never burn. My tan is actually fading. I am fair skinned. I lived in Florida many years. My skin is used to FL light intensity. I gain no tan outdoors in Chicago, I continue to lose it, while Chicagoans are gaining colour. I can clearly see the difference in the intensity of the light, even if it's not reflected in the ambient temp. 80º in Fl is not 80º in Chicago. Both humid, both feel different on my leaves. Will I adjust? Probably, but I won't like it as much as a nice tan. I'll still be healthy and thriving. Probably get a membership at the "Fake and Bake". Do you think I can bring a few orchids in the tanning bed for a little pick me up?

I view orchid growing as a discipline. Look at an orchid country, let's take Colombia for an example. The conditions are consistent, cyclical but consistent. That's why Colombiano's can "super-grow". There is no distinct pattern in N America. Its gross change, vs. fine change. Consistency vs inconsistency. One year you will hear people saying, "we had a cool summer", the next, "A dreadfully hot summer". No control and not enough light intensity. I put my orchids out about 1 month ago. Minimal shade. Either my indoor light & conditions are spectacular (not) or the outdoor light is not doing all it's hyped up to do. I've had little protesting and far more problems. rot, bugs, temps, water, clouds.

I don't hear people complain too much about Too hot! Too cold! Too wet! indoors. They simply adjust it mechanically.

Clara
PS. The GW email is out. H would you kindly email me please? You're a wanted man by consensus ;-)
clara@nsspeedserver.com

Here's the deal, if you perceive your plants are doing better then leave them outside. They probably are.

Howard, I could slap you upside the head, especially knowing where you grew up and where you've been living since.

Even a greenhouse is not a static environment, far from it. Your house year round is pretty consistent and the more popular orchids don't like that (phals aside, as they have to be babied). Most greenhouse growers use a couple layers of shade cloth and/or that paint that gradually washes off because of rain.

How many people put shade cloth between their lights and plants? Yeah, none.

Artificial lighting will NEVER come close to natural, which is why it has to be run longer.

I can get more benefit from 4+ hours of natural light than you ever will from 12 hours of artificial. I have laelia with buds starting in sheaths inside my sun porch. They get an hour or 2 of strong indirect light early morning, then blasted by full sun from about 6 on at night. This is behind a screen and overhang, and assuming it isn't raining. Try that up north and you've got a dead laelia.

Clara is right, there is a big difference between light levels in Florida and the SE US than in Chicago or NY. Even where I am right now, is not that different from NC (based on tanning while mowing) but, damn, I've been to the islands in early May and gotten fried. They have less day light hours but it's way, way, way more intense than NYC.

"Until your post just now, all I'd heard was our winter set-ups indoors barely sustained orchids till the fortunate growers could get them outside, where they got the boost that let them survive through the next winter..."

Sadly this is still mostly true. A majority of indoor setups are not delivering anywhere near sufficient light to do more than keep the orchids hanging on till they can go outside where their fortunes may improve. I say may because once outdoors, depending on locale conditions might be quite inhospitable in many ways even if the light is better which of course it might not be. Even in summer, when I walk into the greenhouse complex of the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens the change in air 'quality' is palpable. BBG do not shade their greenhouses in summer! That should tell one something about New York City air quality. So growing on my rooftop some years ago about 1 mile away from BBG my plants were getting around the same light intensity, duration, and when it was cloudy or rainy at my house so it was also at BBG. Still the shelter afforded by the glass panels and their containment of a bouyant, humid atmosphere should not be dismissed too readily. With CFL lamps the creation of reasonable light intensities indoors is finally possible. Therefore if the budget allows it is actually beneficial to summer plants indoors under a mixture of lights and sun as the protection afforded by having walls keeps the atmosphere stable sort of like the GH. By the way, in summer, North American and European light intensities aren't that terribly much lower than in the tropics. The sun at zenith (noon) can deliver close to 10,000fc pretty much anywhere on earth. It is the huge amount of suspended particulates in the air over much of N.A. and Europe that reduces the light intensity by as much as 30% relative to less despoiled parts of the world. In addition the day length increases drastically the further north of the equator one travels. We can get an extra four or five hours of sunlight in the north. However, if one is not being as obsessive about the siting of a growing location outdoors as one can and if one is using fixed opaque structures to deliver shade or for that matter, using no shade material at all, all these situations are sub-optimal ways of using the outdoors and IMO do not measurably improve on the indoor or windowsill conditions.

H

Similar thoughts apply to the UK. You tootle around in a tourist bus or by car and you see all these clear glass glasshouses....In Sydney, Australia nothing could survive in a clear glass glasshouse. Not even in mid winter.

I will never, ever put my Phals outside. They are the casper milktoasts of the orchids world.
Too much sun, they burn
Too high a temperature, they sulk
Too low a temperature, they sulk
Wet and cold, they die, quickly.

Similar thoughts apply to the UK. You tootle around in a tourist bus or by car and you see all these clear glass glasshouses....In Sydney, Australia nothing could survive in a clear glass glasshouse. Not even in mid winter.

I will never, ever put my Phals outside. They are the casper milktoasts of the orchids world.
Too much sun, they burn
Too high a temperature, they sulk
Too low a temperature, they sulk
Wet and cold, they die, quickly.

Laura, I actually didn't see your post till after I responded to Whitecat. Still, some of my comments appear to be responding to your opinions. Hmmmmm. Actually I did not do that much growing in Jamaica, I came to the U.S. when I was six. I was raised a gentleman and was taught not to e-mail a lady after 9:00pm so I will correspond with you at a more circumspect hour tomorrow, Clara ;-).

H

Most of my plants improve summering outdoors. Problems can occur due to rain and cool weather, but in general, they never receive the amount of light, humidity or air movement indoors. The condition of roots and strength of growth far surpasses anything I see growing indoors under lights. Variables of weather have to be taken into consideration and dealt with.

Drier mixes, hanging for drainage and moving back indoors when cold and dampness goes on too long. It's tricky, but I find they adjust and flourish outdoors.

Jane

Thank you for being considerate Howard (thank your Mum too) :-). I'll be looking out for your email.

Clara

Hi, Jane. I thought I remembered you saying you weren't going to put yours out this year, but you have that screened porch.

But I'm glad to have your opinion on this. I think they do better outside, too. And also I generate too much mess with them. Maybe I'm just extra messy, but I've always found plants indoors a dirty business. I'm happier when the mess is outdoors, and only the flowering plants are inside.

BTW, I love those carts-- they're the big five-stack chrome shelves on wheels from Sam's, but without the top three shelves. They hold a lot of plants, and three of them fit right under one of those outdoor umbrellas for shade. My best outdoor set-up yet.

Great set-up Mehitabel! I did keep quite a few on the porch this summer. I have too many plants. I have some Blc's which have lost growths to rot over the past two summers. They also are terribly sensitive to direct sun and burn like heck. I love these plants, they are huge and just don't do well outdoors. They are staying undercover and I am watching their growths for any sign of rot. So far so good, and they have grown past the dangerous period. They also don't take high heat and seem to do better with cooler temps.

I'm playing with conditions more carefully this year. It's certainly a challenge with the weather. It's been like Fall in NY for the past week. Beautiful, cool, but lots of breezes....come August, different story!

Like that cart idea. Makes moving them around easier.

Jane

Howard,

Thanks for the clarifications. Most of mine will stay outdoors, unless wacko weather might stress them too much - as you said, Jane. Last summer, some were set back at least a year by the stretches of 100+ degree heat.

The rolling cart sounds like orchid heaven. We have a tri-level, w/ the lathe house on the first level, and the orchids on the third. Maybe an elevator....

Whitecat8