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glennyb_gw

Fall Lasagna Garden Setup Questions

15 years ago

Hi Everyone,

We are going to be converting our 85x10 side yard into a garden. I picked up Patricia Lanza's "Lasagna Gardening for Small Spaces" at the library and felt somewhat comfortable and then I started reading around and really got confused.

Before I ask my questions I will give some general info about how I plan on going about this:

1) Live in the City of Chicago, Soil test is pending but we already know we need to bring the PH down significantly.

2) The yard is 85x10. Its a side yard, we have no back yard. We plan on having 3 basic sections starting from the front of the house:

- A 20 foot section at the front of the house for flowers and native plants

- Another 20 foot section for a sitting area, We will start pretty modestly with it and improve over the years.

- Lastly a 45-foot section to be used as a vegetable garden divided into 8 4x10 beds.

3) We plan on setting up the beds in the fall and planting in the spring to allow the lasagna process to work it's magic.

4) We have access to the following free resources:

- 10 Cubic Yards of organic compost delivered from a farm

- More wood chip mulch than we could possibly need from the city of Chicago but we have to pick it up ourselves and its pretty much just sitting in several big piles.

5) The front section has a HUGE hole in it where our developers had to yank an 8-foot wide slab of cement they just rolled sod over when the built the house. Fixing that is probably has the most urgency in terms of "what to do when"

6) We just bought the house, other than the occasional herb garden out the back of our old condo we are pretty much gardening newbies.

Ok, after that long intro here are my questions:

- Does the compost count as a "Green" to counter the "Brown" of the wood chip mulch?

- With the understanding that we would probably just add more to the beds in spring for plants that require more depth for the roots how much would you recommend for the initial "preparation depth" to last over the fall and winter.

- How many alternating layers of compost and mulch? Could we get by with just putting the compost on the bottom and then spreading the mulch on the top?

- We plan on running 2-foot paths down the middle of the yard and between the vegetable beds. The "For Now" plan is mulch paths. I'm assuming we just want to throw newspaper and mulch down there? No Compost?

- Is there a recommended way to "eyeball" how much mulch have loaded into our car or truck? Like a large hefty bag usually holds x cubic feet of mulch?

- As gardening newbies is handling this size in one year too big a task for the two of us? Should we shoot for dealing with the hole in front and maybe a couple veggie beds in back and expand later?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

Comments (13)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    just a point of view: compost =cooked lasagna, ready to eat

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Compost is an ammendment to the soil,something you add to improve the existing soil. Finished compost is already balanced. If you add it to organic material, green and brown, it will throw off the balance then the decomposition process has to start all over. Probably best to mix your compost from the farm into the soil then build the lasagna layers on top.I had an area in the garden with too much finished compost and it didn't work real well, had to spread it out more and mix it in a little deeper.maybe this video will give you a hand

    Here is a link that might be useful: how to compost video

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    What makes you think you will need to bring your soils pH down significantly? Most every one east of the Mississippi has acidic soils. Most people I know that garden in the Chicago area have acidic soils.
    Building your Lasagna beds now is a good idea but keep in mind that Pat Lanza planted in her Lasagna beds right after they were built, no waiting. Do not be surprised if the Lasagna beds you do build this fall shrink by nearly half by spring.
    Compost is classified as a soil amendment by those that garden "conventionally" while to those of us that are commited organic gardeners know it is the life of the soil and adding compost to soil will be almost all you need although other forms of organic matter will help. Lay the compost on the soil and cover it with mulch but do not layer them. There is no really good reason to put compost where you plan paths, just lay newspaper down and cover them with a mulch, wood chips, straw, shredded leaves, whatever you have or can get for the least amount of money.
    A quote I saw in the latest issue of Birds and Blooms Extra said something like "You should spend about twice as much on your soil as on the plants you put in that soil."

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Apparently I closed my browser before submitting this yesterday.

    We had 2 soil tests that involved pH (don't ask, it was a weird situation). One came back w/ a pH of 7.4 another w/ a pH of 7.9. I was told we probably want to amend the soil to bring that down.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Rumor has it that a ph of 7 is neutral. Rumor has it that most vegetables prefer(key word)a ph of 6.5 to 7.5. Most of the articles I've read suggest that adding compost to your soil will lower the ph. It takes time. It depends on what you grow and how much time and energy do you want to spend.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Most soil nutrients are most readily available when the soil pH is in the 6.2 to 6.8 range, so a 7.4 pH reading is not really terribly high but a 7.9 reading would be. Many years ago my soil pH was 5.7 and after addding lots of compost over the years, as well as other forms of organic matter (including Oak leaves and pine needles) the soil pH today is 7.2 where it has been for many years.
    What did the soil test say about your soils Calcium and Magnesium and the ratio between them?

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I've read your post & hope I can answer your questions. We've done all the landscaping here, but not all in the same year. It does take time to figure out what you like, so once you do a bed you also might change it, so don't worry about permanent designs so much as just try something. You might find out about free plant swaps in your area to fill your beds with what is prolific in your area, plus if the plants are free you can spend more on tools & gloves.

    For veg beds prefer 3' between as plants lean out from edge & 2' isn't wide enough unless you only plant down the center of the beds.

    Wood chips are slow to decompose & ideal for paths, but not vegetable bed mulch. They also work for around shrubs & trees, but not so well around perennials. Too heavy, chunky, harbor slugs, etc. Great that you have access to it for free. I love our wood chip paths over all other paths we have. Will need renewing because they decompose. Keep at least 4" thick to suppress weeds.

    Compost over your existing soil in fall works great for soil improvement to plant in spring. Use what you can acquire spreading at least 4-6" for the veg. garden. If you improve the soil for perennials & shrubs that way they'll also thrive after planting needing a lot less fuss.

    Certainly doable for a couple, but also overwhelming if new gardeners. Probably the best thing is to do what you most want to do & keep up with one project at a time. Building a new bed is easy. Planting can go pretty quickly, too. It's the maintaining & moving things around that can be time consuming, so what you plan ahead with spacing, right plant right place, etc. helps ensure success. It's easy to do too much & burn out. Though what you do now in fall will make it much easier to garden in spring! If all you do is spread compost, then top with wood chip mulch you'll be able to move the mulch aside before planting in spring and won't have a weedy space to deal with! If you don't want to have to move the wood chips in spring just cover the compost with shredded fall leaves. Then you can plant right in them in spring.

    Lighting in winter is different than summer due to the sun's position in the sky, so observing & taking notes is useful.

    The wood chip mulch will be heavy if wet, so volume depends on what you have to haul it and how well you can lift huge bags. It does make a mess inside vehicles no matter what you try to do with the heavy duty bags, etc. When hauling a lot of it anything you can do to save your back helps. Even empty garbage cans in the back of the truck work well because you can lean & dump in place or on tarps that you'd then drag to where you need them. Kids' plastic sleds also work great for this dragging to spots. Wheelbarrows tip, but heavy duty carts seem easier for me to handle. 5 gallon buckets also work for quick unloading, but are harder to fill.

    Try a compost calculator to figure out how much you'll need to cover your garden spaces at various depths you decide.

    Here is a link that might be useful: compost calculator

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    as Corinne above mentioned, sun light can be a very important factor in what you plant.Typically side yards, especially ones only 10 feet wide could have a lot of shade due to the facts of your house and maybe a fence or the neighbors house.
    Also make sure you plan for walkways in the veg garden.
    You didn't make it clear how you were laying out 8 4x10 beds in an area 45 x 10 feet but you will need access along the house and also house to side property line.

    Congrats on the new house and best of luck with your gardens.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    thanks folks! Some minor change of plans on our place due to a high lead count (340 parts per million). Our subdivision was an industrial park before it was converted.

    In light of this we are going to be doing our initial vegetable gardens as 4x8 raised beds. The native plants up front are still a go as-is.

    We are probably going to start with the square-foot approach but arent completely sure but it seems like a good plan for newbies.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    corrine1 hit on a very good point, start getting some plants in the ground. The roots play a big part in breaking up the soil, They crowd out weeds, and they are a good indicator of how your soil is improving. I am a thief and a scoundrel for plants. I target the elderly and con them out of every shoot, sprout, cutting and seed pod, I can get my hands on. Of course running a shovel and pulling weeds, digging out over grown bushes is all part of the con. Another plus is you will get to work in soil that has been a garden for years. Get the "feel"of good soil. It's a whole new experience.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    One came back w/ a pH of 7.4 another w/ a pH of 7.9. I was told we probably want to amend the soil to bring that down.

    Don't worry until you have gardened there for a co0uple of seasons. My soil's pH is higher than that and I'm not having problems. I pile on lots of mulch, water consistently, and fertilize lightly.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    My actual experiences have me warning you not to use plastic bags of dirty/moist stuff in your car. The get hooked on a rake tine, a door handle, other stuff in the car, and they rip and dump the contents. Get a few rigid plastic containers -- you'll use them for everything.

    A 30-gallon garbage can contains 4-2/3 (4.66) cubic feet of anything, but they can be hard to get into a car.

    Those 20-gallon plastic tubs (round w/rope handles) hold just over 3 cubic feet.

    If you get those rectangular totes at WallyWorld, Home Depot, Lowes, etc, they usually give volume in quarts or gallons: one cubic foot is about 25 quarts or 6.5 gallons.

    To find out how much your truck holds: Measure the inside of the truck bed in inches: length x width x height and then divide the total by 46,656 (the number of cubic inches in a cubic yard). Even a small Ford Ranger will hold a little over a cubic yard. DON'T FORGET the tarp and tie-downs, or you'll get a ticket for an uncovered load!

    Fill that big hole with the wood chips (brown/carbon), then scatter a bag of alfalfa horse feed pellets (green/nitrogen) over it. And a bag of bone meal. And a bag of gypsum to add calcium. And about a 5-lb bag of kelp meal. Tamp it all down, then add some regular soil to level and smooth it so people don't fall into it. The level will gradually sink as the chips compost. If the chips are relatively large, you can fill some of the gaps with stove pellets (most are just clean sawdust compressed with water).

    When you're making your raised beds, don't forget regular old soil -- it contains minerals that your plants will need. After everything settles down in a year or so, have a couple more soil tests done of the beds, and see what you need to add.

    Save all your soil tests so you can see which way you're going.

    The link below gives lists of organically-approved sources of different natural fertilizers and mineral sources. It's the only place I've seen the stuff in one place.

    For lowest-cost sources of some things, find your local feed store (horse type). They carry stuff like alfalfa pellets, alfalfa meal, bone meal, cottonseed meal*, corn gluten meal*, soy meal*, etc, with prices cheaper than garden stores.

    * Look for 'organic' of these, if you can. Cotton, corn and soy are mostly genetically-modified these days, which are not suited for organic gardens.

    Sue

    Here is a link that might be useful: Soil minerals, fertilizers, nutrients

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    glennyb, you might want to become a thief! Steal all those bags of leaves folks rake & sit by the road. That would be good "mulch" to put over your compost to let sit all winter.
    Having been raised in central Ill., that is what I would do. The mulch the city has may have lots of chemicals attached to it.