Elaine Ingham. Soil Food Web. Was associated with a university. Lots of claims, little to no research.

Thanks for the name. Yes, that's right... that's who I was thinking of.

On your other point: Are you saying she has little or nothing to share, of value, with people who are already using organic methods? Or that she has little of value to share with conventional (chemical) farmers? Or what?

I'm saying " Lots of claims, little to no research to backup her claims." It's based on testimonials.

What you are looking for is The Soil Food Web research site.
Dr. Elaine Ingham has been involved in soil research for many years, that is how she got her PHD, and still directs soil research although she is not directly involved since she is touring and giving seminars most of the time. Dr. Ingham has written "The Soil Food Web Primer" that the USDA has posted on the web as a free download for those that want it.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Soil Food Web

I'm saying " Lots of claims, little to no research to backup her claims." It's based on testimonials

Agreed. The stuff she wrote for the USDA is basic stuff that is non controversial. The stuff she publishes now and talks about is largely anecdote supported research. She also likes to gently suggest conspiracy stories when questioned as to why she isn't following normal protocols for peer reviewed studies in her research.

I won't go so far as to say she and her research aren't interesting or that none of it makes sense, just that she seems to have focused more on developing a cult following (my opinion) than doing sound research.

A fact about her that tickles my funny bone is that part of what she does is 'educate' golf courses on how to maintain their turf, but her own lawn is a complete mess (by her own admission).

She has also made the process of creating good compost tea into something so complicated (and expensive) that it's beyond the ability of a back yard gardener to do. My *opinion* is that she has done this over time by adding additional requirements to the process as a way of explaining why others following her aren't getting the results she suggests they should. 100 excuses later it's now impossible (practically speaking) to make compost tea at home that meets her criteria.

justaguy2, thanks for your discussion of Dr. Ingram and the controversy.

Am I correct, then, in understanding the prevailing opinion this way? : For veteran organic gardeners (whatever approach they may have started with, and whatever their learning path through the years) Dr. Ingram's work does not seem to offer tangible advancement?

That is how I would sum up her work, yes. As a disclaimer it's been around 2 years since I have read anything from her so there is always the possibility things have changed, but I tend to doubt it.

I believe the phrase 'soil food web' can likely be attributed to her publication used by the USDA and I regard her as having the intellectual capacity to do sound research, but for reasons only she can (and has) explained she doesn't do research (and hasn't for years) intended for publication anywhere other than the internet and her books. IOWs, she markets her research to the faithful, not the more science oriented community.

Her 'recipe' for making quality compost tea can be summed up as follows:

1. Purchase a brewer approved by her or build your own and pay her to test it.
2. Purchase compost approved by her or make your own and pay her to test it.
3. Make the tea and pay her to test it.
4. Use the tea and pay her to test the plant material.

If expected results are not obtained return to step 1.

When various sources conduct scientifically valid tests of compost tea and fail to report results she likes she tends to cite the 'agricultural-government complex' as being involved in some vague conspiracy. Sometimes she just says 'they did it all wrong', but oddly doesn't seem to offer her services to ensure 'they' do it right. Probably because they are all bought and paid for anyway ;)

If I were to drop any pretense of being cautious I would simply label her a charlatan and a scam artist. But I won't ;)

Well said, guys.

I have produced Actively Aerated Compost Tea (AACT) using Dr. Ingham's 'How To' information on the different types of compost and brewer. The instructions were easy to follow and in no way esoteric.

http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/articles/brewing-compost-tea.aspx

Please, also, see:

http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/200441/hamilton

http://emrojapan.com/

Terran

Here is a link that might be useful: Soil food web - opening the lid of the black box

There are some opponents of aerated compost tea and I am one of them. What Dr. Eleine Inghame say good is "yeasty" smell of ACT. In other works she says that yeasts are not so good for soil because they produce alcohol. Where is the True???

The better way to make something from molasses is to make activated EM on my opinion. Science behind EM is much more solid than science behind ACT.

For example, she claims that anaerobic composting is "pathogenic" with a lot of toxins. Does she know that most toxines in nature are depleted anaerobically? And very successfully - on the bottom of rivers and lakes where conditions are anaerobic!

I am very doubtful about her "science".

Terran,
What was given in 2 of your links are absolute two different alternative concepts.
One of them assert that aerobic is good:
http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/articles/brewing-compost-tea.aspx

Other assert that anaerobic is good:
http://emrojapan.com/

Can it be that they are both correct?

The 3-d concept (soil food web) is nothing more than "scientific" discovery that earthworms are good for the soil.

In researching soil I have stepped into the past. The early appreciation of soil predates the written word; look at China and India with productive soils for thousands of years.

The obvious importance of natural cycles centers on humus. Without the cycling of organic matter there is not an efficient soil organism population to cycle the nutrients. The evidence is observable in clearcuts cropped without return of organic matter. The humus reserve are depleted and crops decrease in quality and quantity; starved, impacted by diseases and pests.

"An Agricultural Testiment" by Sir Albert Howard was written based on observation spanning years. It is a good read.

Another observational and scientific effort was that of Lady Eve Balfour called "Towards a Sustainable Agriculture -- The Living Soil." Locate the report on the 'Haughley Experiment' for results of one the best, and earliest localized comparrative studys of organic versus chemical (conventional).

Appreciate that there was clear understanding in simple terms amongst the earliest of farmers. It was only when Nature was ignored that soils and systems failed.

The Balfour experiment analyzed soil throughout the growing season to show that nutrients actually peaked when most needed by crops. The plants actually exuded materials from the roots to support specific biological activity to obtain desired nutrients. Think of it as the kid asking for more potatoes... or another piece of pie.

"Farmers of Forty Centuries; Or, Permanent Agriculture in China, Korea, and Japan" is another excellent read.

Google the titles and find the full texts available for online reading or download. These early reading may not have the exact particulars but you can understand that ways and means (technology) has improved. Too much of our modern scientific research is tainted by the sponsors and lobbiests.

The Soil Foodweb is real. The network does require the humus (organic matter in all stages of decomposition) and the organisms (large to small) for life to continue. Chenicals and synthetics cannot replace Nature's recipe of ingredients.

There is nothing wrong with Sir Albert Howard and Lady Eve Balfour. They are both good thinkers and noble people. I liked especially Albert HowardÂs thoughts that scientific method is not suitable for agricultural research because the object of research is too complex and experiments can not be reproduced exactly with the same variables.

There is also nothing wrong with Justus von Liebig who founded chemical fertilizers theory.

There is nothing wrong with Eleine Ingham also who invented Aerated Compost Tea.

...

WhatÂs wrong?

I think that the lack of integrity.

Liebig discarded biology from soil. Eleine Ingham discarded anaerobic part of biology. ItÂs the reason why their theories donÂt work as we want. ItÂs a huge fundamental error of Dr. Eleine Ingham that she thrown out anaerobic bacteria. She cut a half of the life! What a nice side of Aerated Compost Tea that it doesnÂt smell. In reality there is a bad side - she produce in ACT brewer a lot of oxidants! She wants results, but ... there no results! What she has to make with her "science" Â go deeper in understanding of life and dive from the surface of aerated compost tea to the bottom of oceans.

Hi Valerie,

It seems that both are correct.

Beginning in February of this year I planted 38 Italian Cypress combining many different concepts. The trees were in one-gallon pots (3.785 liters) and were, to begin with, less than one-foot tall (30.48 centimeters).

Before they were put in the excavations, the root balls were soaked in a dilute solution of EM-1, planted, mulched with a layer of compost that was manipulated so it was dominated by fungi, and then covered with a top mulch of chipped Italian Cypress.

Every week or so for the first few months the trees were foliar fed with dilute solutions of either Actively Aerated Compost Tea made as per Dr. Ingham's instructions, Kombucha Tea, EM-1, or purified water (to wash off air pollution). All of the trees are in the range of five feet tall (1.5 meters) as of the first of November. That seems to be good progress considering that the growth took place, for the most part, during the heat stress of the Mediterranean type climate that this area is classed.

It will be interesting to see how much growth the trees produce now that we are about to enter the 'spring' of the growing season in southern California.

Terran

p.s.

From the article Soil food web - opening the lid of the black box

"On the other hand, she (Dr. Ingham) said she was interested in studying anaerobic teas and their possible benefits."

This is obviously an old thread, but one that was really helpful to me as I've tried to come to some reasonable conclusion about compost tea.

Though the claim is repeated in many places, I'm puzzled as to why so many think heavy aeration will prevent the growth of human pathogens in compost tea with simple sugar additives? Both salmonella and e. coli, the two major concerns, are facultative anaerobes... meaning they will gladly take advantage of both oxygen and simple carbohydrates.

All the research I've been able to find seems to come down strongly on the side of manure based compost, and nonaerated compost tea. The fact that it doesn't smell good to humans is just not as relevant as we emotionally want it to be. Anaerobic decomposition has a tendency to smell like root rot and death - I think this is big part of our instinctive negative reaction it. But empirically, it's more effective. There are lots of theories as to why, but I don't think there's anything close to scientific consensus yet.

It comes with risk of human pathogens, which can apparently be minimized by restricting simple carbohydrate amendments, and generally avoiding heavy nutrient additions. More just isn't better here.

No commercial enterprise, including Elaine Ingham's, has any incentive to push NCT - because it's incredibly easy to make yourself. As far as I'm aware, even analysis of the microbe population has so far been unable to consistently correlate any broadly identifiable characteristic or populations in NCT with specific benefits... the field is still just too complex and multifaceted.

For now, I've settled on making manure tea from a source of composted manure that I trust to be carefully processed. Never add any source of simple carbohydrates, and be very conservative with adding any extra nutrients at all. Even then, I'll only use manure tea on non-edibles, or crops that I know will be well cooked before consumption (eggplants, sweet potatoes, some beans and some greens). Am I still taking small risk? Probably. I'm eager to see if it's worth it though.

Dr. Ingham now works at the Rodale Institute.

For whomever thinks Dr. Ingham doesn't make sense or know her stuff, (science ) think again. What in the world would you like her to do, hold your hand and show you how to make a compost tea?

Really, she has a simple explanation on Soil Microbiology that she shares with those that have the desire and or understand microorganisms.

What would you like me to do, put a soil sample under my microscope to prove to you that a compost tea works and yes even in containers.

I am in the middle of a research project for organics in containers and if all goes as planed, my career will change. Until then, be careful whom you follow and their ideology.

Ron