Hi
Have been working on a waterfall for a long time and experimenting with different materials. I wanted to combine
a waterfall and seep area. as I didn't want to waste an grow space. Used painted expanding foam to keep the size weight and cost down . It's now 10 feet x 7 feet tall.
Used an above ground 150 gallon aquarium as a reservoir
which works out really well, not only provides the water but allows me to keep water plants as well as fish where easily visible. This is far better than the buried tank I think. Wasn't sure I could keep a tank in full sun but has worked well except for the astounding growth of the plants lol. The "marsh" which works as a collection system to return the water. . Too small and too dark.
Have had some problems with flow rates ,diversions from plant growth. One serious waste of time was painting the wall to resemble limestone. Spent hours adding color and texture and the plants covered every square inch of it lol
I put planting pockets into the wall and have not as yet arrived at the perfect media.
One thing I'm proud of design wise is that it will be possible to have this 10x10 feet with 4 moisture zones and yet only use 38 inches of forward space. Since the enclosure is only 12 feet wide . Wasn't sure that it was possible certainly not with real rock. Have no hard to reach filters or plumbing yet are still not visible .

I only built half of it so far to see how it works and what problems come up before spending too much time and money on it. So far I find it very nice except for the "marsh" area and wish I'd used a much tougher backing
to guide the water . I used flexible fiberglass sheeting
and plant roots have already penetrated it lol
Not fatal but means I can't run the water 24/7.

All I can suggest is give your idea a LOT of planning. Making water fall is easy keeping it contained really tough!!! gary

Got any photos, Gary????

Hi
Not any good ones lol. None of the construction pics came out at all. And ecept for the unplanted areas you can't see the wall at all now lol. The main problem is four feet is as far away as you can get so can't get it all in one pic. Have never got any underwater pix at all . Too many reflections, shadows on the glass and I have a cheap camera lol. The entire enclosed area is only 12x25x10 feet high. My main goal was a "seep wall> rather than waterfall to utilize vertical growing space yet not take up floor space.
By "drop fall " I'm guessing you mean one that falls in one plane with no splashing?? Must be really tricky to get that to work.lol You have a LOT more room so manty more options. gary

Gary,
I have the same problem sometimes taking photos. Can't back up far enough or I'm in the middle of a palm tree, or a stand of something.

By a drop fall, I mean one that would come barreling off of a high shelf and the water fall, unimpeded by other rocks or formations, and drop straight down a number of feet into a pool (or in this case, pondless gravel bed with hidden underground recirculating chamber, LOL)

You know what I mean, like in all those travel photos with the girl in the bikini standing under the tall tall straight down waterfall in the tropics? Of course mine wouldn't be THAT tall, LOL

They have a very cool one at the Dallas Aquarium down by the big crocodile exhibit in the Amazon display. Its a huge example...it drops a full story from one floor level to the next. Mine would be a study in minimalism compared to something like that. There's a lot of over spray, which would be perfect for hydrating a surrounding drip wall.

Hi
Sounds like an interesting set up . The tough part would be deciding ,size pump and how large a reservoir. There is also the problem of returning the water so it won't run dry lol. There are formulas for this but have found they don't work out in practice. Even in a small scale like a terrarium
it's almost impossible to keep the water directed.. In that case I use a false bottom so the reservoir is on the lowest point. Gravity ALWAYS works lol
I'm using a 225 gallon reservoir along witha 1200 GPH pump. I got excellant continuity until the plants started growing lol. The orchids and broms have actually honeycombed the foam. Phils went right through the fiberglass sheeting so now I also have leaks.
I'm curios as to youe thoughts on how large a pump reservoir where will they be located ??
Have seen pix of these setup in lage zoos such as the
Bronx,Lied center and several others.
In the Bronx all the large trees are made of Ex foam. They run the plumbing air electricity through the interior
Of course they had 30,000 square feet and 18 million dollar budget and definitely some artistic talent . Even the floating logs are made of this so they won't decay hide the water heating system.
If you find any particulars on these setups would you share ?? All they want to show is the animals and plants lol. I want details!!! gary

The pumps I have looked at are rated on the box according to lift...I didn't really look at the gallons per minute. There were 3-4 sizes. One was a 6-7 ft lift, one 8-10 and one over 11 ft. I was planning on experimenting with the reservoir before I solidified anything, LOL. In any case it won't be more than about 35 gallons, but I haven't decided whether to fill the reservoir chamber with stone or use a grate over it and just cover with stone. In either case, though, there will be an underlayment of pond liner that will slope into the reservoir chamber to redirect water.

I think you are thinking this is going to be a whole lot larger than it is, Gary, LOL!

I tried making fake rocks and stuff from the foam substrate once and it didn't go so well. For me its easier to just use rocks, wood and other natural stuff to hide things. I am thinking of trying the Epiweb (substitute for treefern) in a few places to see what happens with that.

Hi
Good luck with whatever you decide. They are a lot trickier than they seem lol.
gary

Gary,
I am bumping this up to ask you a few more questions about your seep wall.

I have decided that this expanding foam idea you presented probably has a great deal of merit.

I don't really want to buy a lot of cork back slabs to use in the project, I can't do that in good conscience when cork is becoming a rare resource. I will use the ones I already have sitting around, but I don't want to buy more.

You said that you used the expanding foam to make the fake rock wall by using it with flexible fiberglass sheeting. Exactly how did you do this??

I have a lot of pieces of Lexan left over from the greenhouse construction. They are the corrugated type. Since I don't want to put this rockwall directly onto the greenhouse wall, I thought I might be able to utilize them.

The question is, how to make them more "inflexible".

Do you think it would work to encase the Lexan in a chickenwire frame, then put the foam on, and assemble these pieces on the wall hung up kind of like pictures, with more foam and stuff in between the cracks to add interest, like pieces of wood, and sphagnum moss stuffed in the interstices??

Also, what exactly did you paint the foam with, that was plant friendly????

I will be starting this project before the end of the month, so I'd like your input. Actually I plan to start moving some things out to make room this week. I will probably futz around with the fall first, and place the seep wall second.

I plan to use some natural stone and stuff around the "pond" at the bottom of the fall, but for the backing seep wall, I need cheap, light, and easy to work with.

I bought a Mucuna bennettii to go over this area as a dappled shade producer...there are already some huge Vandas hanging up over the space... and will have to dig up a lot of bromeliads and cryptanthus from the area I am utilizing that I can then re-mount into cracks and crevices on the seep wall and around the fall.

I am thinking that this will just be a larger scale version of the terrarium I built using the foam as a "glue" for other stuff. But in the terrarium, I didn't leave any of the foam "out" as a fake rock feature.

Any suggestions would be helpful, and if you could please pretty please take some photos of your seep wall????

Hi
My shadehose is actually an attached screenroon that has been modified to act as a shadehouse It attaches to the house on two sides 12x25 with the ebtry through the 12 side. The seep wall runs from the 12 foot wall down the north house wall around 10 feet right now.
What I did was use sheet styrofoam kind used as insukation as a backer to keep water away from house wall.
This was put all the way up the wall to the roof to allow for expansion,. I built a stand for the 150 gallon aquarium placed 18 inches from the wall the plumbing goes up the wall 4 feet above the top of the aquarium. Behind the plumbing and over the styrofoam I placed the flexible fiberglass often used for tarps . This is to keep the water
going straight down. At the bottom I built a frame 18 inches wide and 6 inches deep the length or the aquarium 6 feet set directly back of the aquarium supported on it's own legs This serves as a collection area to channel the water back to the tank and as a marsh garden
I just used PVC pipe with 1/8 holes drilled to release the water on the 7 foot length. A valve located in the marsh garden directs the water to the falls and how much . If completely closed it diverts to the tank and acts as a filter. Over all this was placed the X foam along with pots cut in half for planting. At the joint of the tank I made channels so the water flows from the marsh back to the aquarium. The wonderful part about the foam is it can be any size shape or color and the entire 8x10 foot wall weigh about two ponds lol. I even used this as a background for the aquarium. So the wall runs from underwater to the roof .
It is self adhesive to ANYTHING including you lol.
You can use acrylic latex paint even underwatr . Two part epoxy is not necessary .It is totally non toxix but some fish will eat it lol. Have kept this pain underwater since 2001 and still not only adheres is still bright.
There are many thing I would do differently if I were to do it again.
You can use anything as a frame for your basic shape depending on how much weight you want it to support.
Decide on the size and shape of the structure if going over 4 feet I'd suggest a PVC pipe frame to suppot the whole structure. Chicken wire would be great over this give you rounded shapes . Rely on the foam to cover the structure give the final surface and of course acept the plants . I would suggest making a mockup for ythe waterfall
maybe out in the yard just to get an idea how much water will be needed and how it behaves..
There are several formulas on the net for deciding how large and pressure for the pump. You need X amountt of gallons per inch of width and of course the higher the more pressure .
have you decided about how much space you want the whole structure to take up?? Some other things to consider the higher the more diversion of water.the more evaporation as well as noise .
As I mentioned none of my construction pix came out at all . Any pic taken now shows only the plants lol The wall can only be seen at the upper limit. But that's just flat styrofoam . i can't get the entire wall in one pic.. None of the worings show at all.
It's not really as hard as it seems lol.
You might try getting a can of the foam and work with

it. Since you've made terrariums just think bigger. Concentrate on the mechanics of the falls. Everything else will be easy. Think about the dimensions and how it will fit in how the water will be released and returned.
There I wrote a book and I'll bet it's as clear as mud lol. gary

The PVC pipe with the holes drilled in sounds a lot more practical than an mini tubing octopus.

I had 2 cans of Great Stuff in the garage (unused) and was going to experiment with them yesterday, but they both seemed to have become unusable. They have been out there for a few years, they sounded liquid when I shook them, but they wouldn't work. I will have to get a fresh can and try to make some fake rocks, LOL.

I think I have decided to use a stone basin as part of the reservoir. I have a really cool one that already has some moss growing on it. That way I can have a smaller underground reservoir and a visual of the water level so it doesn't run dry.

I took the plumeria out, and a bunch of bromeliads, yesterday so I am ready to start fiddling with the waterfall.

Hi
Some words of experience on the "foam"lol There are 3 different kinds of it the difference being the degree of expansion. . Stick with The low expanding "great stuff " the more expanding types end up with voids are not nealy as adhesive and tend to flake. All the types are UV sensitve
but easily protected by acrylic paint. A good way to do this is make your "rocks " on a table . Much easier to paint and carve . Glue them to your structure with some silicone.
Some things that have NOT happened though I was warned about. My oldest are now 7 years old but still show no signs of these problems.
It will deflate
Will lose it's adhesion
Will disintegrate in water.
Will not sstand up to abrasion.
Two part epoxies are the only kind of paint that will last on damp or wet surfaces. Acrylic works fine in any situation.
Plants will not grow on it
Is toxic to life forms.
None of these have been a problem at all. Granted my oldest use is only eight but no signs of any of these problems.
Have found the best way to attach other material such as rocks, cork.To wait until it's fully cured and painted and then glue these to the surface using silicone glue.
good luck gary

Well I got the hole dug, and tried a small pump I already had laying around (just for grins, LOL I knew it was too weak) and I had to go get another pump. I am going to pfutz with the fall today and see what I can get done.

I was looking at some terrarium websites that used Great Stuff and this is what they did, I am thinking I may try it on at least one and see what happens, LOL.

They formed the "rocks" and while they were still "wet" coated them with either a thin dusting of Portland Cement or Peat Moss. Then after they had started to cure and were at least dry to the touch, they were able to "mold" them better without them sticking to them. This seemed to result in a more natural look and eliminated the need for paint.

Its going to take some experimentation. I got some foam panels yesterday and some Great Stuff on sale! I'll get busy this weekend