Hi Nikki: After reading the thread Rose Bush Thorn causing Havoc, and reading over Patrick's ordeal with an infected thorn - I am leaning toward thornless rose, esp. for containers.

Burlington Rose Nursery in CA has the largest selection of thornless roses and mini-roses. Large roses are $10.95 each, mini-roses are $7.50 each. The shipping cost is lowest. I ordered 5 large roses and 7 mini to be shipped to my Chicagoland, and the total price was only $133 including $25 shipping charge. Burling has the largest selection of mini roses, ranging from mini-floribunda (2' to 3' tall), or micro-mini (less than 1 feet).

Burling's fragrant and thornless roses (most are small for containers) are sold out quickly. Her website is under construction, but you can e-mail her for what's available. She has 160 mini-roses and 380 regular roses to choose from, many are thornless. Her email is: BurlingtonRoses@aol.com

Francis Dubreuil is a smaller red rose that works best in a container and has a strong fragrance. Can be ordered from Chamblees Nursery.

That's an excellent recommendation, Alameda. I ordered from Chamblees too, excellent service (except that they charge $2 for changing the order). Francis Dubreuil reportedly smells better than chocolate, YUM!

BurlingtonRoses has F. Dubreuil, except my zone 5a is too cold for it.

Where are you planning on putting the pots during the winter? If they are staying put, you are looking at much hardier roses than if they can be moved somewhere that will stay around freezing.

The other important questions are how heavy is your disease pressure (where in the world are you?), and how active a role in dealing with disease are you willing to be?

Hi Nikki: I'm after the same stuff as you are: fragrant bouquets. I did extensive research on them, and mini roses are your best bet. A few of Ralph Moore's mini such as Vineyard Song (2' tall, 5b) and Sweet Chariot like acid soil and do best in a pot with MiracleGro potting soil (pH of 6.5). These two have multiflora parentage.

Many of the minis from Burlington are thornless and hardy to zone 4 and 5. My neighbor bought minis from Trader's Joe, she planted them in our bad alkaline and limestone soil without any winter protection. They have tons of bloom and are now 5 years old. The disease-pressure in pots is blackspot, but if you water at the roots only during hot sun, without getting the foliage wet, you will be OK.

You can grow any size or type of rose in a container, even climbers. You just have to have the appropriate size container. Bigger really is better in this instance. I'm not talking about putting a micro-mini in a 25 gallon pot but you can certainly grow a full size HT in one. But no matter how big the pot is eventually you'll have to do some root pruning and soil refreshing. In a zone 5 garden that would probably be about every 5 or 6 years dependig on the vigor of the rose.

I've grown Austins in large pots with supports and they are usually very fragrant. Double Delight, Peace, Garden Party and Angel Face are also very fragrant. All of those do get black spot though. So you'll either have to spray or decide to live with the spots.

Burlington does have nice roses. There are also a lot of other good sources too. And coming up, in probably May for you, your local nurseries will start to get potted roses in as well. If you are newer to roses you may want to start with an already potted and growing rose to get your feet wet. Not that growing bands or bare root roses is a whole lot more difficult but you'll get quicker results with a potted greenhouse started rose.

As for the thorns, I've been working with roses most of my life and couldn't count the number of times I've been poked and scratched, tens of thousands I'm sure! I have never had the problems sited above. I'm not saying it doesn't happen because it does and it is serious. But it isn't a common or frequent occurance and shouldn't frighten you away from your roses. Good garden hygene and immediate thurough cleaning of any wounds is a must. And immediate medical attention, as was done in the cases noted above, should be sought if there is a problem.

You might want to take a good look at some of the repeat OGR's and David Austin roses.

Thank you, Seil, for your experience. I forget that mini-roses, except for miniflora, are too tiny to cut for bouquets. I have good results cutting Austins like Wise Portia (4 days in vase) and Mary Magdalene (2 days in vase). They both have awesome scents. Mary Magdalene is small. I like Austins since some of them have harmless tiny prickles, rather than wicked thorns like Knock-outs (someone also got a thorn infection from Knock-outs).

Knock-outs have invaded here - they are everywhere! My neighbor paid BIG BUCKS for 6 Rugosas from the nearby nursery - four died in our alkaline soil, two survived and become thorny once-bloomer that she wants to get rid of.

Thank you, thank you all for your ideas. I am in Zone 5, near Tacoma, WA in the Pacific NW. We have rainy, cool winters with occasional snow falls and sunny, dry summers. I will have a drip system for keeping the roses watered. I will see how bad/if black spot develops to decide to spray or ignore it.
I moved from a home with an in the ground rose garden of hybrid teas. Here roses in the ground have an invisible sign: Deer Salad Bar. So they are building the garden deck as I type.

Your suggestions and ideas are great for me to hear. Thanks again.

I've never had a problem making bouquets from miniatures.
Is there some definitive literature of which I'm unaware that says we can't?

One thing I keep in mind for potted plants that I normally display on my deck is air circulation. During winter, if I keep pots on our deck, the cold air circulates all around (including under) the pots and I lost several plants that should have been very hardy in my zone. Cured that problem by placing them on the ground, against the house, with mulch around them during the winter.

If your container is anything made out of wood, make sure to line the container with some sort of plastic. You don't want to have the container rotting out on you is a few years.

I just finished replacing a 1/2 whiskey barrel I had planted several years ago. The wood was about 1" thick. But where ever the soil had been, the wood now averaged 1/4" thick.

Yet I noticed that other containers of lesser grades of wood were faring much better (because those had been lined).

Strawberry, I cut bouquets of mini and miniflora roses all the time. You can't mix them with the bigger roses unless you cut the larger rose stems shorter but otherwise they work wonderfully. And on their own they make lovely little spots of color for the window sill over my kitchen sink, on a bed side table or anywhere that space is tight.

Nikigardens, Oh Tacoma! I'm homesick. I grew up in Olympia, moved to Nisqually in the 5th grade, then for high school up to Poulsbo in Kitsap County. Most of that whole area is zone 8,so I'm suspecting you must be located a little east, in the Cascade foothills. Is that more or less correct?
Anyway, most people have been talking about thornless or nearly thornless roses, which makes sense. And minifloras or miniatures. But you also indicated you want fragrant roses. I have a rose that is very thorny, but otherwise a great choice. Deep Secret. Although it's a hybrid tea, it's smaller, mine is 4 years old, only 3 feet tall, nicely bushy, happy in its 20 gallon pot. It loves cool weather, is hardy, Mine suffers through our hot summers but thrives in the fall and winter. It is a gorgeous deep rich red with nearly black-shaded outer petals. It is intensely and wonderfully fragrant, on par with Papa Meilland, and it particularly blackspot-resistent for a hybrid tea. It will get a little but not much and shrugs it off. If you can get past the concern over thorniness, this one's a contender. It's not readily available from many places, but Heirloom Roses does sell it own-root, which is how I prefer roses I'm growing in pots.

Another rose that occurs to me is Always a Lady, a clear lavender mini that grows quite bushy. Mine's filling an 18 inch diameter pot. It covers itself in blooms in regular rapid cycles, and is relieably fragrant, something not too common among minis. I can't vouch for its cold-hardiness, though. I've not had the chance to see it anywhere but here on the Gulf. This one has a few thorns, but not too bad.
Mike