It's abnormally warm here in TN also. I could have left my plants out longer also. Our weather has been freakish since last March.

Just responded to your other post. If I didn't have to work, I would have moved my plants back outside today. I'm loosing buds to the transition back indoors. They shouldn't be flowering this early. I don't understand what happened. The Spring was so cool. I would think they would be behind schedule. I am equally upset over this crazy weather. Now Clara, if you are having 79 degrees, that should hit NY by the weekend.

I'm moving my flowering plants back outdoors this weekend!

Jane

Clara, I do know, because in my light room the ambient temperature at bench level hit 91 yesterday, and it's at least 5 degrees hotter at leaf level. just turn another fan on them and relax. Aim it either at the top of the leaves, or at the lights. That will dissipate the excess heat around the plants.

Actually, I bring my orchids in by this time because the sun is essentially gone from the deck, not because of the lows.

We're a little warmer than you, but the first (even light) frost is usually not before Halloween, and the first hard frost not til Thanksgiving. I've been watching the weather here for years, and that's how it works out, on average.

Cymbids, oncids, and many catts (especially but not limited to L and Lc) can stay out thru October. Caveat: there are coldish-gloom days to figure in, and these can start big trouble. My (few remaining and in-spike) catts and oncids are still outside, on the front porch sun-trap where it gets hot beyond bearable, even this time of year.

As for the effects-- I don't see how anyone can predict it. I personally would be surprised if most orchids would be affected enough for the response to be detectable.

The narrower the range of adaptability, the more difficult to grow. So your easy growers will be fine. And hybrids tend to have a wider range. Some species have a narrower range, and they might be affected, but most won't have clock-like precision in their response.

Relax and enjoy the balmy weather while you have it. November is usually dim and wet.

Girl, where is your weather coming from? Not here. The last couple of weeks, we've been mostly between the mid-60s during the day and the low 40s at night, plus cloudy and damp. Sounds more like your summer weather. :)

As Mehitabel said, aim the fans at the plants or the lights. When you brought yours in, you couldn't have known that October would be so whacky.

My Phrags, mini-Cym, Potinara, Masdie, and Den moniliformes are still outside, but tomorrow, they're coming in for good so they can dry out. Hopefully, they haven't molded out there.

The weather's nuts. Thank goodness orchids are more adaptable than we think sometimes.

Whitecat8

Clara,

Same thing here in Western OH, cool for a few days and then back into the mid to upper 70's. We've only been dropping into the low 60's at night the last 3-4 days. What few 'kids I do summer out (2 large paphs, a really big Catt and some Kingies) I brought indoors (Kingies are staying out for a while yet) when we dropped into the 30's last Saturday morning.

I grow indoors all year long mainly in a spare bedroom with an east facing window, so I deal with this throughout the summer months. ***Howard, please dont read ;-)*** When things get too hot I will turn off a portion of my lighting. Where I have 4 85 CFL's I may turn one or two off in the morning. On my 3-tiered light cart, I may turn off half the lights on each tier. When needed I also use a dual window fan that can pull air in from one side and blow air out from the other, it helps to move more air in the room. I also turn up my ocsilating fan another notch when the room temps start to go higher than 85. When I left the house this morning (66 degrees and raining, high 77) I turned off 2 of the 4 85's and opened the top half of a window. I'm on puppy duty this week, so when I go home for lunch, I'll see if things are OK. I don't expect to have to turn anything else off. I figure turning off a few lights is like imitating a cloudy day. Hey it works in my mind ;-)

For me the worse temps seem to be in the low-mid 70's, as the A/C doesn't run much, there's no cool air available from the window and the room just heats up.

As Mehitabel said, turn up the fans, maybe turn off a few lights, have a nice glass of tea and wait it out.

Bob

Thank you everyone. OK it's a long post. Anyone have any suggestions?

I am thinking of taking the calendar, crossing out "October", replace it with "June". Our planet has a fast onset flu and is running a temp. Outdoors is not an option, the rain = Rot. Lost 2 Milts early in the summer from this kind of weather. Keeping them "on the indoor light bus". We have 1 or 2 more 70º days and then back to low 60's. What's next? 85º on Turkey day?

Worried about temp drops. Not getting below 70º at night. Turning off the lights will not help this. 78/70 night is not good for my dracs masdes lycastes etc. Thought an open window would do it and moved them in. My collection choice was zoned based. Ha!

I will never ever grow without a window again! (Collection reduction to come) I can't go without some light. 2 days on and 5 off? Yikes! They are already behind from the cool May/June/July. Without lights, some grow areas are pitch black. I chose a different set up this year.

Fans; have them on every day. Ceiling and floor. Windows wide open to vent the cfl's I don't grow many warm- hot growers. CFL's run hot. Kinda like swapping out for low cost electric heat with benefits. I have a very naturally humid, dark space. Have to move a lot of air in order to avoid rot/mold. Light too for the mold. Most of my windows are west. Its been cloudy. I get 3-4 hours of direct light now. :-(((((

Obviously I Can't start lights this early next year. Not sure what the answer is?

Manipulate their schedule?
Climate control to keep it on track?
Buy different orchids?
Oh, the "joys" of indoor growing just keep getting beter & better! Howard, when are you going to write a book on indoor growing?

Still have an entire window rack in the shoppe & about 20 "Spanish Speakers" and Asians. 7 honking cfl's. I am spread way too thin and have no micro-climates! Every grow area is fit for a vanda! The shoppe was to be the cool micro-climate. The shoppe is usually down to 1 light for a few guys like neo and Japonica now. It should be 60 day 45 night now. My Neo is nowhere close to blooming and it should be in bloom. OHG's Neo's are done blooming. So mine will bloom when? December? Never? I swear my Stan is going to bloom. This is how out of whack it's gotten!

How do I water? Like it's summer?
Do I just stop when the weather turns? That's harsh

Have heat and a/c in the shoppe but I refuse to run 2 systems for me or the orchids. Now you can see the stress value lies. The $$$.

WC -Minnesota should belong to Canada in terms of weather. It amazes me that you are w/in driving distance and your weather is so different. Lucky... predictable weather is is ideal and that's why you have gorgeous flowers and no blooming troubles.

Bob- So glad I am not alone. What do you grow, how do you grow and what are you doing about this? I may have grey hairs when I'm done waiting for this weather to change. I am ready to add a little VSOP to the tea! .

Jane, I have the inverse problem; bud stall or no spikes for late summer/fall bloomers. Not sure if that is from bringing them in or the weather. They are on "lock down". Don't blame them. tenuifolia is worse than the Intergen I posted about. It's as if the late summer/fall bloom programme short circuited. This becomes a waste IMO. Electric. Its not the orchid's fault.

The only orchid that has kept his timing and is completely unaffected is "Fat Boy" (Ang Crestwood) He seems to have an immovable schedule and has remained on time. Nothing phases him. Jane, just struck me, that would be a good orchid for you to consider! Crestwood or sesquipedale. Winter bloomer, Big plant, a drop dead beauty out of bloom, You don't have to kill yourself to get him to bloom big, fragrant sequential flowers, Same light as Super Floof's, Shapes looks more like Intergens and Brassavola's but on a large scale, infrequent water if you get a 10 or 12" pot :-)) Repotting bothers them. Ignore him and he grows like a weed. Happy indoors or out. mmm ... have to get another.

Jeez I wasn't planning on so many lycaste leaves inside this year. That is a major space problem. Now I am wondering if my cruenta had it's leaves burned instead of dropping naturally? The bulb is not as big as it should be. What am I going to do with so many giant leaves? The floor and cfl's attached to the wall?? Yikes my freshly painted walls! Oh Man! This is a logistical nightmare!

Jane 70++º coming your way...catch!

Clara
With a swim suit under her polartic jacket

Clara,

I grow a litle bit of everything, (I counted 41 phals yesterday out of about 160 total plants) but really try to stay away from the cool and cool-int growers. I do best with plants that are Intermediate to warm and don't need massive humidty. (I grow mini-vandaceous plants in a 55 gal aquarium, just to be able supply the humidity they need) The closet plants I think I have any success with in the cool-int are a medio bi-color (you know the little orange candy corn flowers) and a Den. laveflorum (sp?). They strugle but usually give me a few blooms. These grow on my light cart, it's my coolest area.

No dracs and only warmth tolerent masdies.

Good luck, it's tough indoors sometimes. Usually Oct-Mar is better for me as it's easier to control the temps and I can keep the lights on full tilt. Not quite the case this year though.

Bob

Clara,

Because we have not been seeing many consecutive cool nights, I believe spiking for my phals is behind schedule. Generally by mid-late October I start to see 25% or so of my phals in early spike, so far this year I've seen 2. To the best of my recollection, we've not had more than a 3-4 consecutive night run of 45-50 degrees. When I open the window to the orchid room at those temps, it generally cools into the low 60's which I think helps to initiate spikes on a lot of my phals. I also changed my lights from 16 hours in early August to 13 hours, and will start to up that in about 3 weeks. I actually changed the cycle in August to alleviate some of the heat in the room and the house, but also think some phals spike because of the day length change. (Hey why not cover both bases, cool and daylength). At least last year, I had about %90 spike/bloom rate on my phals using this method. Hopefully I will again this year, just a little later. Could be a colorful late winter/early spring at my house and work.

On the good side, my violaceas and assorted crosses love the high temps.

I'm actually going to look around at a big box store this weekend to see if I can find a smallish window A/C unit on clearance sale, just to put in the grow room next summer. I realize that lack of humidity will then become my burden, not heat. When the window is closed and the A/C or heat are running, humidity is usually between the upper 30's and low 50's. With the window open and no A/C or heat, I can keep it between 45-60% depending on outside humidity.

Growing indoors is nice because of ease of care, critter control and such, but it's a real bear trying to keep things within reasonable ranges as far as light, temps and humidity.

Bob

Relax, Clara. Warmish days in October are common as dirt. They used to be called "Indian Summer", and I'm always glad to see them because they are radiantly beautiful days.

As for what to do on a day to day basis-- it's always a judgment call. Just do whatever seems reasonable on that day, given what you know about the next few days.

Bob -This spring Howard wrote a post that was confusing and "controversial". What else is new for Uncle H? ;-) After a big discussion about putting orchids out for summer, he posted; "Better to leave them indoors for summer " Initially I and others thought H had gone mad. He, of course, was right.

You said it yourself and it is true: " You can control everything much better indoors". Putting them out is simply for convenience and saving $$ by not running lights, fans etc. Some of mine did not benefit from going out and they no longer exist as a result. Wind is a horrible problem outdoors here. Storms are violent. Cool weather and water = Rot

Next summer, a handful of my orchids will go out. I did not see a huge difference in growth or health between the indoor ones and outdoor ones. Lord knows no one got the benefit of a cool down outside. That leaves me w/ an indoor heat-light issue. My rack was getting over 95 in August. I am not big on closing up and putting on the a/c. I grow Lycastes Anguloa's mainly in the hottest area. (The leaf size, no choice if I want good light) I set my lights to turn off during afternoon hours in the west windows. It helped a little.

You and other indoor growers seem to be focused on humidity. I just read this on another post that states humidity is "Mandatory" for bloom. The person will destroy their plant attempting to boost humidity. I come from Miami and now live in Chicago. Humidity is NOT critical to growing orchids indoors . In fact, there are many months during the winter in S Florida where humidity is low.... winter months that mimic z-5 late summer/ early fall months. 30% RH is not uncommon in FL in winter. We don't live in AZ. Plenty of people grow in arid climates. There is 1 woman that posts inspiring flowers on the gallery side who lives in/near CO(?), in a bone dry climate.

High Humdity is an Orchid Urban Legend; a remnant of Victorian approach growing. We have let go of the notion that orchids need steamy Jungle-like conditions in order to thrive. Somehow, humidity remained. Light, proportionate heat and clean air/movement are the key factors to successful growing. Humidity is like Superthrive, totally not necessary.

In summer I grow in a section of my space without humidifyers, windows and a huge loading door wide open. I grow outside too. I have yet to read a post complaining about humidity outside. Does anyone measure it? I do. Humidity can be very low for extended periods. No one seems to complain and flowers bloom. You see my point.

You have decent indoor humidity. You are only boosting it by a little. Humidity surely slows watering frequency. It may have a slight influence on colour. Other than that, high humidity can be dangerous in an enclosed Household environment especially with live plant materials. Mold sickness or "sick house" syndrome. Know all about it.

Air movement/ quality is more than critical when one is manipulating the environment. I'm talking wind, not a piece of hair moving. Had to have my place remediated, the HVAC systems cleaned, wall boards replaced, the entire place painted with Kiln and gloss paint, my RX's cost more than my rent each month. Everyone is allergic to mold; some worse than others. Mold gets into the wall board, HVAC systems, soft surfaces, clothes, your mattress. Once the spores are present, impossible to get out. So you may want to weigh the benefits. I'd much rather invest in a good fan, the expensive air filters, an RO system and an Ionic Breeze, rather than a humidifyer.

For that reason, I could never grow in a tank or any enclosed area. I respect that you do it don't get me wrong; but I grow Vandacious types out in the open. Have to water them almost daily. A bucket next to my window does the trick or more retentive media than I would use in FL. They were outside all summer and freckled up. Humid or not. Bloomed Humid or not

Ever clean leaves during/after winter? Cloths are filthy by the time I'm done if I am not vigilent about air quality. 1st thing I do when someone leaves an Orphaned Orchid at my door. You would be horrified at the dirt on the leaves. Some never comes off. Water spotting too. A plant cannot photsynthesize with dirty leaves. Bud blast is a constant problem with dirty air. Air is so important to growing. You can't realise it until you live someplace that has bad air, which is almost everywhere. We have sufficiently polluted our planet to the point that no where is clean

Got off on a tangent. But we are having an environmental anomaly that is part zone creep and part Sick Earth. Why make it harder for our beloved house companions? Back to topic.

My bellina and bellina types spiked again at the end of summer along with some other plants. Everything is stalled. They were out this summer and as Howard says have enough in the "light bank" to spike and complete the process. So why don't they complete the process? My indoor grow areas are 70% RH (not by choice). I have 85w cfl's and a window working together. They have adjusted to coming inside.

My theory is the same as your's; night temps and run time. I see you are also finding the same. Can't drop them down enough, the plants are experiencing a seasonal disorder & confusion. I started a cut back on water with with some that went into dormant cycle during the cooler days. Then the weather went back to summer. It's very tough to water at this stage. I have others that need 60º days now. None of this exists. It takes awhile for buildings to cool off.

This is the inverse problem of the early Summer. Again Bellina types. June/July. Spikes holding. We finally got a week's worth of hot weather and they pulled out of stall. Lack of heat was the culprit. Heat and light are not proportionate in this zone. 68º Day in July is just as insane as 80º in October!

Now you can see why I am having agita over the unseasonable weather. I ran the AC for a few hours yesterday afternoon. The Lycaste pots & remaining leaves were hot to the touch. They are in their winter home and its way too hot for them in this area. Thankfully it was breezy and coming out of the West at high speed. Yah I ran the a/c and had some windows open. I can't do this every day but it worked. It rained and the temps dropped last night. My grow areas actually got down to 64º last night.

I suspect, to answer my own question, that fall bloom cycle will be truncated or aborted. Some of my fall plants show no sign of spike and are well overdue. Even some summer bloomers are not spiking. Fall does not exist this year. I may have to avoid buying fall/spring bloomers in the future or face climate control bills. I also wonder what effect this will have in the Spring and Summer?

No Mehitabel It is not "Indian Summer" according to meteorologists. These are record breaking temps that we are experiencing here for protracted periods of time. Not a stray couple of days. We have been experiencing summer with a stray fall day.

I grow more than phals. Most of my collection is catagorized as "cool growing" and some plants are in the middle of going dormant. Others need 50º evening which I cannot provide. I can get away with that for a few months in the summer but not over 1/2 the year! This also presents issues, such as watering frequency, especially with leafless 1/2 dormant ones that I have moved in for winter. These plants cannot grow in this area in summer. Simply way too hot for them, but not in winter. I have some Lycatses and Dracs that I paid a huge amount of $$ for, so no I won't relax when I see what is happening to them. They have no business being in vanda-like conditions. I made the time to set up winter grow areas. I have no more time to devote to re-setting summer conditions, just as I will not re-set the roof and cart them up. I work my butt of daily to provide good culture. If I wanted non-flowering houseplants I certainly would have chosen less demanding, more attractive plants.

Clara

Heat index of 101 yesterday here...sorry. :0

I'm not ready for our winter...even though to most of you, it's more like fall.

I like it hot!...but my plantings need a break. LOL

Clara,

Beleive me or at least my wallet, I've tried quite a few vandaceous types in my grow area. I believe I've lost every single plant that way (the 4" pot that contains tags for 'spent' plants is almost full). Some struggled along for a couple of years, but I never really got decent flowers or growth from my vandaceous plants in my grow room. I even tried the daily dunking trick, still had issues. The only thing that helped was I would put those out under my birch tree in the summer, I still had to spray them down with a garden hose on most days. I guess I just decided it was too much effort for too little reward.

I think a lack of humidity also has a very negative effect on my non S/H oncids.

I think humidity is important to most orchids and will continue to try and provide for it, although I'm pretty happy with my results with the current lot of plants and humidity. I'm just concerned what will happen if it drops even lower with a window A/C unit. I do not use and will do everything I can to not use a humidifier, if things get really dry I mist the entire collection. Only helps for an hour or less, but it makes me feel better. I mist my 55gal tank at least 3 times a day, and keep water in the bottom to help. Thinking about buying one of the lizard tank timed misters, so I won't have to be so regimented about the misting.

I grow some mounties with spagh out in the grow room (D. rigidum, dockrilla wenzellii?, a no id mini-den and a nodosa) and have to mist them heavily once or twice a day because of my low humidity. All of my mounties are bone dry by the evening.

I water the entire collection with R/O water on Saturdays and some others (@25% - mostly large S/H based water sucking plants [can we say Sherry Baby]) again on Wednesday mornings. This is consistent year-round for me. If the 'kids can't adapt, they usually don't make it or are given away.

I still try lot's of different things, but have learned to not even think about large vandas or the real cool growers.

Bob