Ok, I am reviving this excellent thread! I finally have blooms on my Palantine Devoniensis. Definiately more pink than I remember my first one, but the form looks the same. My original one was in a sort of shady spot, so maybe that accounts for the color difference.

I hate to say it, but Ashdown was a bit notorious for mislabelled roses. I have two roses from them that were mislabelled. A Sean McCann rose labelled as Ava Rose is really Wild Irish Rose and Lord Penzance is really Lady Penzance. But I love them all.

Lovely, Buford. I have a small one from Greenmantle and she really should take off this summer. She bloomed her head off last summer though tiny.

I received one from RVR last year. It bloomed all summer for me in a pot and handily survived last winter outdoors in that same pot. This spring it pushed out buds almost before foliage. I consider its test phase now over. As a "good do'er", it's earned a permanent spot in the ground and will be planted by the end of the week!

Devoniensis certainly looks to me to have strong Noisette origins, judging from the bloom form and the existence and habit of its climbing form. It brings to mind Dijon Teas and Tea-Noisettes. It seems that its 'Smith's Yellow China' parent might indeed have been a Noisette or, at least, a Noisette-like China rose.

If the literature is correct, 'Devoniensis' is 3/4 'Park's Yellow' and 1/4 'Blush Noisette'. 'Smith's Yellow' was from the same cross that gave rise to 'Jaune Desprez' and 'Lamarque' -- it just wasn't a climber. The early yellow Teas are an inbred family originating from 'Park's Yellow' being bred back to its offspring from 'Blush Noisette', and further inbreeding down the line to bring out R. gigantea characteristics again. 'Safrano' fits in there, along with 'Le Pactole'.

It's almost Mendelian how things sorted out -- cluster-flowering, additional carotenoids, and vigor from R. moschata paired with 'Park's Yellow', and the F2s indepentently assorted into varios combinations of climber vs shrub, white vs yellow, clusters of small blooms vs mostly single large blooms, Tea-form vs Noisette-form, Tea-fragrance vs Noisette-fragrance, etc. Though they were genetically very similar, whether classed as Noisette or Tea depended on which of just a few traits were presented.

:-)

~Christopher

Here's a bloom from clg. Devoniensis as we know it,... it grew 6 foot in its first season... but it wasn't a rose I wanted to persist with... I didn't think I could manage it..

I have something on its PM tendencies, nick! I've had a shrub Devoniensis for about 3/4 years now, and even grafted (mines in a pot) its pretty slow growing. I do like the gracefulness of it tho- its slender canes and dark wine red new foliage looks pretty with the pale sometimes pinkish sometimes lemon white of the blooms. And I get a nice fragrance too. Unfortunately its started to mildew really badly- before this it sometimes got a touch at either end of the season, but last year I got one or two blooms in the cool part of spring, then nada. It became totally covered in powdery white film, right down to the flowers well into summer.... Seems ok so far for autumn; hopefully this spring will be better, because no way can I deal with the ugliness again; sadly Devoniensis will have to go. Remarkably clear of blackspot tho.

I bought Climbing Devoniensis about 13 years ago and it must have grown to 25 feet wide in width after several years and perhaps 8 feet tall where it had begun to climb into a tree. Canes and thorns were weapon-like. A couple of winters ago it died back to ground and has never recovered, probably because the area where it grows is more shaded now than it was 13 years ago.

I have raised cuttings from it, at least one of which must be a shrub because it has never grown more than two to three feet tall. I put it back into a large pot last year and planted the pot in a small, sheltered area near the house where the musk rose thrives. I have a young Spice planted in a pot nearby. I'm hoping both will do well this year.

Powdery mildew has always been a problem on Devoniensis at certain times of the year.

I like Devoniensis for two reasons--along with Safrano it is probably the closest substitute for the missing Parks' Yellow and also one of only a few early teas/noisettes (Lamarque being another) comparable in form to European roses. Repeat bloom is nice, but I value form and fragrance even more and Devoniensis at its best offers both.

Lindsey

I have read that if you do a cutting of a climbing rose from a lateral, it will regress to the shrub form. To get a climbing form, you have to take the cutting from one of the main canes. Not sure if that is true.

That depends upon the rose. Devoniensis was, for many years, only available as a "bush" in the US. Some "bushes" climbed, others didn't. The two things both did consistently were mildew with a vengeance where mildew is an issue, and the buds balled, as all papery-thin, overly packed buds are wont to. It took time to sort out there were actually bush and climbing forms. Devoniensis does seem a bit less stable than many others with climbing sports. But, no, mostly if your plant is a stable variation, it should propagate to that same variation.

Gregg Lowery said that at Vintage, when they took cuttings of the climbing form, they got about 40% shrub form plants. I think that's probably a good estimate from my experience as well. On the other hand, I've never had a shrub-form cutting go back to being climbing (not to say it doesn't happen; but I've not seen it).

Hi! I'm sorry if you all stated it but where can I get the right Devoniesis since there are different varieties? Does it tolerate filtered shade? I'm in zone 10a

I think Cl Devoniensis is available at Rogue Valley Roses. It would be small to start but could really take off by report. Jemma, I would hate for anyone to mess with a beautiful rose you grew for years. That is the only problem with growing a treasure on city property.

I would probably be on Dateline if some city official went after my rose.

Lol that is funny Sheila

I'm talking to you on both posts =)

Every time the city deals with the tree I'm present and they work around my concerns. It is the people at the city's desk that can be so annoying and inconsiderate. I sent pictures of my car's damaged paint, sidewalk, and now it is falling on my gate and they said it doesn't matter.

Looking at the pictures I posted on the other post

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5907100/what-color-is-mac-rose-in-southern-ca#25455852

Can all of you rosarians tell me if it is possible to plant floribundas at the edge of the curbside and two shrubs on each side of the tree?

I got mine from Rose Petals Nursery. I think Reverence for Roses carried it too...mine has been the slowest rose I have, which I’ve heard is fairly typical. I saw that you were also considering MAC...that one is just as lovely and would be much quicker to fill in. 😊

Perman, I don't have much property and the previous owners paved my front yard. So most of my roses are in containers. By the way, who started calling them the pot ghetto? I resent that, my planters are pretty =)

Since I don't have much land I want the best rose I can get. I want a rose that will make a good cutting OR bloom all the time.

Some hoarder's pot ghettos do not have attractive containers. Think storage units.

Yeah, those are the cheapy pot =)

Okay if you ladies had to pick which climber would you put in my tree? Devoniensis, MAC, Sombreuil, or something totally different?

MAC is wonderful for a white climber, but I don’t have direct experience with the others. She is vigorous with enough thorns to keep her hooked into the tree but not too many. Her flowers are so pretty en-masse from a distance. She doesn’t last long in a vase, but you won’t be able to reach them up in the tree anyway. She blooms with flushes year round in SoCal. I get blooms for Christmas.

I wish someone would try climbing Devoniensis. If nobody does, it might have to be me.

Mine is climbing my 8 foot fence and looking or some place to stretch. I gave it a careful and thoughtful pruning over the winter, taking all canes back to about 6-8 feet, but on its own it grows out to 15-18 feet, I will say that it can get PM. Now growing on a chain link fence it has all the sun it needs, but I have noticed that in my garden, roses grown in partial shade are more subject to that disease than the same rose grown in full sun. Stress, I suspect. For that reason I would hesitate to grow a climber into a tree unless it were bulletproof. My best guess is that probably means some of the healthiest ramblers. I don't personally know of a repeat blooming rose that does not get some disease.

Sheila.....I have a climbing Devoniensis I bought as a band from RVR 3 years ago. It's planted on a 10 foot teepee :) Don't laugh! hahahahahaha

I put it there in the corner of my rose garden so I could just at least see one bloom. I figured if it got too out of hand, I would pull it out.

Last summer was it's second season and boy has it been yucky. I am really growing it in terrible conditions: part shade, crammed on a ten foot teepee. All it has done so far is throw up multiple, mildewy 12 foot canes that are huge, thick, stiff, and deadly thorny...with no leaves.

I am so fortunate to have a garden helper who LOVES working with roses. He and another guy manhandled Devoniensis onto that teepee this spring and tied the heck out of it to get it somewhat wrapped around. Now there are bare canes almost all the way up, and a thicket of leaves bubbling out the top.

But....there are BUDS!!! They are just about to open! I will finally get to see a climbing Devoniensis bloom in person!!

This will be happening any day now. I will post pictures. All of you will die laughing when you see how this rose has been "trained" :))

I am thrilled, Rosylady. I really want to see those coming pictures. Mine is the bush form and small.

I have one Devoniensis from Palatine. It's still alive at a protected spot in zone 6a NY. Can't wait to see the blooms. Have to try a Cl Devoniensis. Thanks for the info.

I’m starting to wondering if my Cl D is really the Bush form. It’s been quite slow. I’m obsessed with the fragrance of this rose, and really wanted it to cover my arbor. But it’s still barely 2’ tall. Or maybe the nearby viburnum is stealing from it. This might be my favorite rose of all. So of course it’s the tiniest! Lol! 😊

Everything I read said Cl D will really take off. You'll probably find out by year three.

Thank you, Sheila! I just need to be more patient. She’s just SO beautiful!

Yes, she is.

It should not take long to discover whether you have the shrub or the climber. For us, the climber can easily go 10 feet in a year. Here's one of each:

I might also comment that if you ever run across a found rose known as "Tradd Street Yellow," that is the climbing form. It was found by Ruth Knopf in the 1970s or earliest 80s, on Tradd Street, Charleston, SC, climbing over the roof of a 2-story building. She collected it on a chilly morning, and in cooler weather, this rose can be decidedly yellow. On the other hand, here in warm Lakeland Florida, it's nearly always pale pink, fading quickly to white. We do on rare occasions get to see the yellow, if we have a cold front come through in winter.

Great to know about “Tradd Street Yellow”! Thank you, Dr. Manners. I’ll keep an eye on mine. It’s own-root, so that is probably accounting for a bit of the issue. Is yours there grafted? 😊

Where can I find a Cl Devoniensis? Now I really want one. RVR sold out.

Question for Malcolm Manners--Do you know anything about a pale yellow Noisette planted by Ruth Knopf on (I believe) a tobacco house at plantation where she advised or volunteered? It was given to her by the late Lois Wickham of Hanover Co., VA. and came and came from the Hickory Hill Plantation in Hanover where it was always known only as "The Noi sette." It is a large and sturdy rose, blooming happily now in my garden, and most teas and Noisettes have not done well for me nor did they do well for Lois.

Ruth sent Lois a picture of the rose which climbed to the second story of the tobacco house. She said it looked quite yellow in the picture. Similar in color to Lamarque with a pale yellow center fading to almost white. Buds are sometimes pink. Foliage reminds me of Devoniensis--much darker than Lamarque. Thirty to thirty five petals--open center--forms hips.

Lindsey

I found one! :-) Will be here next week!! Thanks guys!!!

Lindsey, I am not familiar with the yellow Noisette. Sorry.

And Perma -- Mine is grafted. I graft virtually everything I grow to 'Fortuniana'.

Malcolm

I checked my favorite sources -- Rose Petals Nursery apparently has them in stock. A Reverence for Roses is currently out of stock. Antique Rose Emporium does not seem to list it at all. But maybe from RPN just now??

Thanks professor Malcolm. I found one at RU this morning. :-)

Thank you for your reply. I suspect this is a rose whose name was lost many years ago. My recollection is that it came to Hickory Hill in the first half of the 19th century.

Lindsey

Lindsey, it’s not Celine Forestier? That sounds a lot like it...😊

Thank you, Dr. Manners! I’ve watched your videos, so as easy as you make it look, that makes sense! 😊

Perma, Celine has lighter green foliage even lighter than Lamarque.

Ok—never mind then. 😊

Sorry it took so long! Here are the pictures of my climbing Devoniensis. When mine gets as big as Malcom's, I'll be in trouble!!

This will be its third season in the ground, bought as a band from RVR. It's about 12 feet tall (2 feet taller than its support). As you can see, it has almost no foliage on the bottom, then a topknot of leaves at the top. I'm hoping the canes will keep growing and flop down, almost like a fountain.

The flowers are pale yellow in my garden...I wish they had a flush of pink!

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

@malcolm_manners

Thank you for thread and wonderful photos & comments! It surely helps when I’m ordering a rose!

I looked up Devoniensis CL as it’s on Memorial Day Weekend Sale TODAY, Nay 30th, at Heirloom Roses for $30 today (No tax/free shipping!) After reading this thread & seeing many photos in internet…. love to have this “Magnolia rose.” So I just ordered it! Thank you!!!!! Cant wait to smell her lemon scent & see her yellowy cream-pink bloom profusion!!!!!

I avoided Devoniensis for many years because of the horrific mildew the one in the Tea and China bed enjoyed all the years I volunteered at The Huntington. I was bowled over by it at friends' in Northern California and begged for a start so they brought me a plant year before last. It's from the old Santa Rosa Cemetery and, oddly, hasn't been the mildew addict it was in the hotter San Marino garden.

It DOES have a scent I can perceive!

@Kittysrosegarden Note that everyone who grows Devoniensis successfully is in a WARM climate zone. Like most Teas (especially the large climbing types) this is not reliably hardy in areas where hard freezes are a routine occurrence.

I'm in USDA 8a, and my plant of Devoniensis was killed outright the first time it experienced a freeze that went down to 15F.

I grew 'Cl Devoniensis' for years. It is a monstrously big rose, but that was something I liked. I did not like the heavy, constant mildew (here in Silicon Valley), nor the particularly vicious thorns when I had to work with it. Still, it was gorgeous enough that I kept it. However, when the pine tree fell and took out our fence and the roses growing on that part of it (along with several fruit trees!), I decided not to replace it. Instead I moved a start of my 'Buff Beauty' to replace it on the fence. Still thorny, but healthier and far more manageable. It was a good call for me.

As for an earlier comment about bare legs with this rose, I prune my all roses that way on purpose. I want to be able to see whether or not there are rattlesnakes lurking under the plants as I approach. I prune my fruit trees that way too.

@User

Thank you. I caught that it was 6-8 zone & I thought I may have to pot it to over winter in garage as it is freezing cold here. After your comment, though, I decided to call & cancel Devoniensis tomorrow. It’s a great rose-but I think I will pass afterall due to my climate. I ordered Awakening CL instead,, better for my climate. Again, thank you!