I don't have controls, so I don't know how much difference it made. I was able to go longer between spray treatments. OK, I didn't spray as often last year, and it looked like the blackspot infections held off longer than usual.

Here is a nice detailed article by the bustopher: preliminary results of Messenger tests (LONG) (has lots of photos for those of you with slow connections).

I think jont1 uses it too.

Hi Donna, If you type in messenger in the search box all of the previous post will come up for you to check out. I ordered some to use this year. I hope it works miracles for me. Judy

I used it last year for the first time and I do think it made a difference. My plants ceartainly seemed healthier and more vigorous.

Where can you buy it?
-terry

Hi Terry, I purchased mine from www.edenbio.com. I ordered the newest one called Mighty Plant-Messenger Gold. I hope it works as good as the original one. Its suppose to be a newer version. You can also purchase the original Messenger there to. Judy

Thank you, Judy. I went on-line and ordered 10 packs of the Gold today. So did you have good results with using Messenger on your roses? I heard good things about it last year. We have such a short growing season here in Illinois that I'm willing to try anything to give my roses an extra boost. I'm using Rose Tone also, so combined with the Messenger, they should be fantastic this year (hopefully).
-terry

Terry, I'm going to interrupt to say that adding a liquid seaweed preparation (either Neptune's Harvest or Response) to my spray program has really helped with resistance. My leaves have added substance and I really believe that the healthier, thicker, leaves are able to extend the time that I need to apply fungicides. You can order directly from Neptune's Harvest, and I use the seaweed only preparation.

I have found that it helped all my roses to varying degrees. As a group, the lavenders are helped the most for some reason, at least in my yard. Lili Marlene also benefited a lot. My Rokoko started repeat blooming in earnest, for a change. I also saw some benefits to applying it to my tomatoes and peppers. They grew a bit better.

One other thing I noticed last summer was an occasional shiny/sparkly residue on the foliage. I don't know if it is the Bayer sprays or the Messenger, but if you go to show roses, it would be a good idea to make sure the stuff is cleaned off the leaves. I judged one show where someone had left some on the leaves. None of us judges knew what it was at the time so we wound up calling it a foreign substance which is a no-no. I later saw the same residue on my own plants. Now I think it is either the Bayer sprays or the Messenger. I don't know which for sure. I don't think spray residue is grounds for a DQ at a rose show, but it would be a good idea to make sure the leaves are clean because the judges may not recognize it for what it is if they are not using it.

As to frequency of use, the directions call for every 3 weeks, but I may go to 2 along with my sprays. If I miss just one application, my garden goes right down the toilet in no uncertain terms. Messenger will not do anything for Japanese Beetles; it is not an insecticide. Perhaps the milky spore disease would be good for that problem.

Thanks for the info, Diane. I'll check out Neptunes also.
Healthier roses means more blooms, and stronger going into winter.
-terry

Wow!! I am so glad that I asked..I placed my order, through e-bay..found it a bit cheaper,(due to free shipping) but at any rate, I can't wait to try it! As for the Japanese Beetles..I didn't think so..but can't blame a person for hoping!..can't wait till someone finds a non toxic control for them! I encourage hummingbirds and just hate to use chemicals, but I have to during JB season.Thanks so much for your replies. I have duplicates of many of my roses, so I will probably do a test just to see..if I turn up anything signifigant, I'll post pics. Thanks so much..Donna

Your welcome Terry. I have never used Messenger I just read about it on here. I came across this rose site a few months ago and have spent my winter looking at everyones beautiful roses. I plan on planting many more roses this year and thought I would try it since everyone loves it so. Diane I too plan on checking out Neptunes. How often do you apply it and how much per rose. I need all the help I can get. Yes it would be great to find something for Japanese Beetles. I sprayed my lawn with liquid seven this fall in hopes of killing off some of the grubs hiding in the dirt and you would not believe how many came up and died. Someone told me to try it so I will see if it helped any. Thanks, Judy

Diane, Do you also use Messenger? I plan on using Messenger and Rosetone and spraying with Bayer. Can I still use the seaweed stuff? I don't want to overdo and kill stuff. Help, I'm a newbie to roses. Judy

Do you know how to get some discount? Are there rose societies that are able to get it for less? We usually use 25-30 gallon of spray for our roses any given time. consequently repeated applications would be terribly expensive at regular price.

Diane, do you mix the Neptune's in with your fungicide spray, or spray it separate? And how much do you use?

I mix the Neptunes (or Response, I won some at a district meeting) in every fungicide spray, ideally every two weeks (last year every three). In addition to its other properties, it helps hide mancozeb residue. I don't remember how much, whatever the label says per gallon x 2 (2-gallon sprayers).

I don't use Bayer fungicide, but there should be a problem mixing it with that product.

I fertilize with Espoma Holly-tone or Mills Magic Mix 2 or three times a season.

My first post wasn't clear: yes I use Messenger. I only apply it twice a season (I think that's about all you're "supposed" to, but maybe that's hearsay). Can't tell what it does or does not do, don't think it makes much of a difference. I do not have a control bed to compare it against.

I have used it for a few years now on all my plants and notice improvements in just about everything. Healthy new growth, bigger leaves, more blooms, refreshes annuals too. On some plants it's very noticible but not on all. My abitilons (flowering maples) love it.
In 2006 in the spring and early summer, I sprayed my 2 crepe myrtles that consistently get powdery mildew, real bad. It was the only year that they were completely clear of the mildew and the bloom flushes were huge. Last year, I didn't spray them and they were back to their usual mildew self. I am sold on this product! I have purchased all of mine through 2 co-ops on Davesgarden.
As directed on their website, a normal schedule is every 3-4 weeks. You can pretty much spray all plants, indoors and outdoors, even on edible crops the same day they are harvested. The plants should be misted but no need to spray until complete run-off which is a waste of product.
On the site, it has a FAQ link
http://www.edenbio.com/garden/index.php?option=com_simplefaq&Itemid=79

and lots of great testimonials.

Here is a link that might be useful: Interview with 2 rose growers/exhibitors

I'm definitely going to try Messenger on my garden phlox; they get powdery mildew real bad in the summer. Some of the clematis will also benefit from the spray.
-terry

I meant to say "there should be NO problem mixing the Neptune's with the Bayer product." Sheesh, serves me right for answering BC (Before Coffee)!!!

Thanks for all of the great replies. Now I have another question...If Messenger can be absorbed by the leaves, then if there were run-off, wouldn't the extra be absorbed through the roots, too? Usually, (I think)..anything that can get absorbed through the leaves works better through the root system..like fertilizer..remember when it was the fad to foliar feed then everybody went back to root feeding? Just wondering..Donna

I've been using it on my roses and customers roses for the past 3 years and there is an immediate (you'll notice within a few weeks) and continual positive difference in the plants growth, health, and flower production. I highly recommend.
Michael

IMHO, when it comes to growing roses, Messenger is mighty expensive snake oil. After conducting field experiments with Messenger in 2004 and again in 2006, my test results showed very little difference between the roses that received Messenger treatments and those that didn't.

The experiment was performed on two beds of 24 roses each.
One bed contained 24 Iceberg roses, the other contained 24 Tamora. Six of the roses in each bed were used as control roses which received no Messenger treatment.

The test ran from May - September, 2004 and again in 2006.

We sprayed the roses every other week. We sprayed Messenger separately and on a day when no other pesticides were being applied.

The test beds were fertilized & sprayed with fungicides (Banner Maxx, manzate, Immunox, Compass) throughout the season, on the same schedule as our other 200+ roses.

My Conclusions: I'm underwhelmed by Messenger. The test rose bushes were healthy. Their size was about average for Tamora -- about 30" high and about 24" wide. Bloom was typical for the variety.

My partner in this test counted the blooms on the Icebergs for 3 bloom cycles in 2006. He found the Messenger-treated bushes had between 1 and 5% more blooms than the control group.

We chose to use Tamora and Iceberg in our tests because we had more than one or two of these particular varieties. It can be difficult to compare results when used on many different roses.

I also tested Messenger in our main rose garden (about 100 roses) which contains two long raised beds planted with an assortment of HTs, floribundas, shrub roses and OGRs. One bed received Messenger spray every other week.

Again, I found it difficult to see much difference between the roses in one bed or the other.

Based on these observations, Messenger didn't appear to deliver much bang for the buck.

Granted it may perform differently in different climates and on different plants.

I guess Eden Bio is not going to include our test results on their web site, huh?

I just ordered some Messenger Gold. Is this a brand new product or has anyone had any experience with it yet?

I've used Messenger with great results and saw horrible results when I slacked off.

Can't quite figure out what the difference between Messenger and Messenger Gold is. Anybody know?

Denise

Aren't you suppose to use de-ionized water with Messenger? Chlorine is bad for it I read some where.

I have used Messenger once per month for the entire growing season for three years now. Most times I spray it alone but sometimes I will add some type of foliar feed such as SuperThrive or Response or Neptunes Seaweed elixir.
I noticed a distinct improvement in my roses when I started using it. The third month in to the new program and the results were very positive and plenty apparent.Many more new canes and new basals--so that means more flowers. Bigger and thicker foliage that stays very resistant to PM and BS. I have never had any major outbreak of either one since starting the Messenger. I also think as a whole, my blooms are bigger and have more substance thus they last longer on the bush and in the vase.
For best and most economical results you should only be spraying the top of the roses onto the new foliage that is usually red or purplish in color. You use less this way and get the maximum amount of benefit for your buck. Two gallons of spray once per month is more than enough for my 200+ roses.
If you haven't tried, you don't know what you're missing
John

well..due to the varying opinions, i've decided to do a test..i have 4 baby own root lagerfelds, all about the same size, all next to each other..so i'm going to spray one with messenger all summer and see if it really works or not. i'll take pics and post them later this summer. donna

I guess I would wonder why any more testing should be done after reading idixierose's test results.

I know a couple people who do not use Messenger and their roses are thriving and huge. Roses will do well without all the hype amendments, I've seen it with my own eyes.

Carla

I read an article about Harpin/Messenger on a Horticultural Myths page someone recently posted. The writer was not very confident that lab results would necessarily translate into positive field results. Here is one interesting paragraph from the report:

Field application of harpin is subject to other practical problems as well. Harpin cannot be mixed with chlorinated water, so users must have a source of deionized water. Secondly, users must be able to predict disease incidence or arrival of pest insects, since plants require 5-7 days to become resistant after application of harpin. To over come this problem, the manufacturers suggest apllying the material every 2-3 weeks while the plants are growing - but at a suggest retail price of about $20 per application, this can become a very expensive proposition. Third, some university researchers have suggested that climatic conditions will affect field success, where areas with longer growing seasons or higher levels of sunlight might exhibit greater success than cooler, shadier regions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Horticultural Myths