I guess my first question would be....What are you using for seeds? Store bought? Catalog bought? Are they quality seeds?

Ok, I just saw where you said you get your seeds from Thompson and Morgan.
I'm a bit confused because you state that you are always satisfied with their products, yet you are saying that you get poor germination rates.

"I buy almost all of my seeds from Thompson and Morgan. They are based in England, but you can get their seeds in America. They have a HUGE selection of all kinds of flowers and vegetables. I have always been satisfied with their products and recommend them highly."

I guess I need to be more specific. Yes, I can get germination, but for instance in those "seed starting systems" like the ones Park Seed and Gardener's Supply sell, they are supposed to grow "sturdy seedlings", and they rely on a bottom watering system. What I end up with are tall, spindly seedlings (even though I keep the lights within a short distance of the top of the plants) and very little root development. They're almost not worth putting out because I know they won't make it. How do you get the roots to develop before you put them out? Because if I try to do that -- using the recommended time before planting on the seed envelope -- AND I've hardened them off properly -- they just don't grow well until the second season, if they last that long. And often, they just die. So perhaps the better question is: How do you encourage the seedling to develop a decent root system instead of putting all its energy into top growth? I am VERY careful about fertilizer, as I don't want to give them too much nitrogen -- which I know encourages top growth -- so I feed at half-strength with an organic fertilizer for seedlings. But am I missing something? Is there something I should be feeding them to help the roots grow? And if you were me, would you go back to some "system", or just put them in paper cups, as I did last year. I did read in this forum that a lot of people are using peat pellets. Is that a good way to get seeds growing well, with good roots? Well, I guess that's enough questions! Thanks for reading them all! MacThayer

My method for indoor seed starting systems is "grow slow".

You're doing well with close light and being careful about fertilizer. I would recommend actually making it a little weaker, say 1/3 or 1/4 strength. When you think about how small a pill is to a human, that help you understand how little fertilizer you need for a little plant. I use a medicine dropper to add 1 or 2 drops of seaweed extract into a spray bottle. I foliar feed once a week.

Also, watch the heat. You're seedlings should be growing between 60-65 degrees while they have seed leaves. This goes even for warm season annuals like peppers. So set your systems in front of a window or close the heat vents of the room.

Finally, let the soil dry out between waterings. Too much water can be just as bad as too little. I know that my pansies grow indoors will "stretch" or get spindly if they are kept moist so I keep them on the dry side.

Hope this helps!

I'm in the minority, but I really don't care if my plants start out leggy. I Group Plant my seeds, 50-100 at a time (it does not need to be this many - you can do it with one or two) in a tray that is easy to keep warm and under a light. Once the plant gets about 4 inches tall, with a couple two or three sets of true leaves, I transplant them into 3" or 4" containers, burying them almost to their bottom leaves.

I also use a fert heavier in P&K but low in nitrogen, N promotes vertical growth.

Mike

There's probably no one "best" method, as different plants need different conditions.

I've done a lot of experimenting, and found the best for me is starting in a very warm place (in my basement utility room, where out boiler is for out hot water heating system) and moving them out to a less warm spot after they show a true leaf.. I use lots of lights (and may still get a bit spindly) and keep a close eye on the water.

I used to place the dome systems in the south window to get warmth and sun, but when I got a temperature probe that kept a record of high and low, I realized that the sun could (and did) easily over heat those domes. So now I don't place seedlings in sunlight unless they are old enough to have the lid off. While lights are a hassle, they are easier to control than sunshine!

I also carefully read up on what the plants want as far as temperature, light, planting depth and such. "Keep moist" usually mean exactly that, and better to err on the wet side than let them dry out.

Discipline has been the greatest help in seed starting. Heavens knows how many plants I've killed by "forgetting." If you can automate anything, do so! I now have drip irrigation in my hobby greenhouse, my cold frames have gas piston openers, and my lights are on timers. I didn't have any of this when I started, and I've 'dried and fried' many plants in my day!

So keep trying different methods, and you will eventually find what's right for you.

(Good ol' direct sowing outdoors works, too.)

Indyrose

Mac-is the room you start your seeds in heated and do you use a heat mat under the seeds? The temp might be too cold for germination. I don't use a heat mat, but the room I use is in a heated finished basement where the boiler is...so it's pretty toasty.

This year I will be doing soil blocks. Which are what it sounds like...blocks of soil made from a blocker..metal contraption that squishes soil into a block. I've heard great things from friends about it and there are no pots. Just cubes of soil you can later put into the ground. Vermont Compost fort vee soil is good for this..but there are recipes to make your own as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fedco Seeds-Soil Blocker

I use these containers I save from all the Indian food my family eats. I fill them about halfway with miracle grow potting mix and then put one trowel of my own worm casting-screened peat-vermiculite mix on the top. Then I push the seeds down gently with wooden chopsticks. I then use a spray bottle filled with water taken from the dehumidifier in the basement. Finally I set them up on top of the hot water heater; which is in my living room closet. I then check them every couple days until I see sprouting. I decide if enough seeds sprouted in each container before moving them into the basement under the shop lights.

I just started 9 varieties of tomato, 6 of lettuce and broccoli last night: {{gwi:217309}}From 020209

I forgot to mention that the mix I make is in a ratio of 1:4:1, respectively and this mix has resisted damping off and algae. If I seed in straight Miracle Grow the soil tends to turn algae after a month.

You do eat a lot of Indian food with all those containers! Mmmmm, I love Indian food. My 4 yr old said yesterday..maybe I'm Indian b/c I like Indian food so much.

Glad to see you recycling the containers-good for you! We use all our take out containers and packaged salad and fruit containers the same way. Like plastic strawberry containers. It's nice b/c they have a built in dome lid. But again...we're doing soil blocks this year. We shall see.

I'm envious of those Indian containers. We live 45 minutes from the nearest major city that would have any kind of decent take out, so it's not on our menu very often. One year I potted everything in yogurt containers with holes drilled in the bottom and a plastic baggie over the top (took the baggie off when they germinated). I REALLY like the sounds of your potting mix, bencjedi, and will use that. I already have the worm compost. It's the greatest stuff. I will also look for a fertilizer that is more PK than N -- the one I have is pretty heavy on the N & K -- can't understand that. You think a seedling fertilizer would be heavy on the P&K, makes more sense. I do have my lights in a basement room that is heated. It probably averages 65-70 degrees. I've only used heating mats under tomatoes, and probably don't really need it for them, but it sure makes them pop! I did read somewhere that if you start a tomato in a small cup, and then after it gets a few leaves, cut back the leaves, and pot it up, and just keep doing that, and eventually you'll end up with a significant root ball, so I may give that a try on ONE of my maters --- am too chicken to try it on the whole bunch. And BOY, can I relate to being impatient to get those first tomatoes! Here in Wisconsin, you just can't put them out early, so I'm looking for the absolute shortest time to maturity that I can get (just found one that matures in 55 days, and am going to try that, along with others). If I thought I could keep up with the daily checking required of using a Wall-O-Water, I'd do that too, but I work too many hours for that, and it would be just my luck to either not close the top when a freeze hits, or not reopen it and have the plant fried. MacThayer

Hi,

I just joined today and I'm so glad I found this forum! I've used many different methods to start seeds in- the best so far, and one that I've been using for a couple years is soil blocks. You can purchase them at Johnny's or Territorial Seed. They are really great for plants that benefit from being 'potted on' a few times before going to their permanent home- like tomatoes. They are great for seeds that hate their roots disturbed- you know the ones some stay away from because the packet says direct sow and then you forget about them. They are great for seeds that take forever to germinate!

There are 3 that you can buy. You start your really small seeds or ones that take forever to germinate in the micro soil block maker. After they germinate and have grown for about 5-7 days, you 'up-block' them to the next size soil block- the 2" sized. The 2" soil block maker comes with inserts that you put in and when you make them it leaves a square hole in the top that is the same size as the micro soil block! Then there is the 4". You move your plants to it from the 2" the same way.

These are nice for a few different reasons- but the most important is that the roots get naturally air pruned when they grow to the edge of the soil block, they stop. They don't have anything to wrap around like a pot. Because of this, when you plant them in the ground they take off! Little to no transplant shock.

I have built simple wooden trays to hold them- one side open. These make it easier to water. If you go to my blog (in my profile) read the posts about these- directions are in there including a small video and how to build the wooden flats.

If you have any questions about these you can email me.

Happy Gardening!

Tessa (aka dirtdigr)

Here is a link that might be useful: Blunders with shoots, blossoms 'n roots

I know lots of people use Miracle Gro PS but there are also many who swear it is the most evil thing since Satan. One of the most common complaints is that it has too much Nitrogen in it - which causes vertical growth.

I've seen a huge difference in germination rates based on nothing but the PS.

Mike