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sherry_roma

Need quick answer: is purple blue?

18 years ago

It was recommended that I add some blue annuals to my new OGR rose garden with its pinks, creams and reds. I'm having trouble finding blue. Seems what is called blue is often purple. Do you think that will work? Namely, Florida Blue Lisianthus.

Thanks.

Sherry

Comments (31)

  • 18 years ago

    This is just my opinion but I think purple goes very well with pink and cream and will go well with reds if they're more toward the bluish end of the spectrum rather than the orange, which most of the old garden roses and Austins are. A bright red might do better with blue rather than purple (a rose like Altissimo, for instance).

    Ingrid

  • 18 years ago

    Ingrid, my red is Don Juan. And I think I've found the Florida Sky Blue variety, so I don't think I'll go heavy on the purple. Maybe a few scattered around. The Sky Blue in the picture I saw was very pretty - really sky blue. Thanks for your quick answer. It really helps.
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    Seems what is called blue is often purple.

    You are right 100%. I found it true even in case of nursery catalogs offering blue perennials or annuals.

    In zone 9 you can plant Evolvus (Blue Daze) and that is definitely sky blue. In your zone it must be perennial. Plumbago (cape wort) is blue without doubt and it is hardy in zone 8.

    Ajuga can be either blue or purple - depending the variety.

    There are numerous salvias - from low edging plants to 4-5 ' monsters that are either blue or purple. Some are very invasive, like my former favorite Black and blue, so search it before it causes some problems.

    One of my favorites for rose beds edging is sinola sage - to me they look gentian (a bit darker than Gentian perhaps) blue (with burgundy foliage) but I am sure that some people would disagree.

    Blue annual that works only in the colder months is Nemophila Baby blue Eyes. I love flax but it needs dry soil.

    There are Irises that are positively blue and there are some that are purple - I am just not sure if Florida is not too hot for them.

  • 18 years ago

    Ceterum, thanks for all your suggestions. I had Blue Daze before my front yard became a rose garden. I loved it for its zero maintenance and beautiful color, but it spreads and I don't want that amongst the roses. I suppose I could keep it cut - nah, I won't.
    The Plumbago I've seen is wild looking. They get to be hedges here. They freeze to the ground in winter which wouldn't matter I guess.
    I think of Ajuga as ground cover. I guess I should get educated.
    I had a Blue Salvia last year - don't know if it was black & blue. It did get huge. Wound up impeding Natchitoches Noisette from growing in that direction. Lovely plant but don't have the room for it. I didn't read the label that said it would be 3' tall & wide!
    I have not heard of Sinola Sage. I had Pineapple sage and another one last year. They both got huge, too. I totally underestimated my companion plants. My Gauras got to 4' tall and flopped all over till I figured I could stake them. Just call me slow. Plus I still do not know how to deadhead these plants. I wound up wacking the salvia and sages in big bunches. They came right back. I couldn't tell how low to cut the Gaura stems. I think I finally went all the way to the ground but by then the season was over, so I don't know if they would have put out more growth.
    These plants all loved my rose bed!
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    Most horticultural blues are really bluish purples. Very few flowers are really, really blue. I agree with Ceterum's list. Plumbago can be really blue, a few irises are reasonably blue, and some sages -- not many. For most plants, a faded indigo like blue jeans that have been washed too many times is as close to blue as you are going to get. Even balloon flower (platycodon), which I have always thought of as a good blue, has purple undertones. You might consider some of the delphiniums, if they will grow in your climate. Hydrangeas on acid soil can also be blue. In my experience, any other flower I've heard described as blue is actually blue-violet, steel-gray, or some other off shade.

    Rosefolly

  • 18 years ago

    This is Lisianthus Florida Sky Blue. Very heat tolerant and drought tolerant, they say. I like the color. I think they're supposed to 10"-12" - semi-dwarf. A local nursery is supposed to have it. I'll check tomorrow. And Irises don't grow - not the traditional ones anyway.
    Sherry

    {{gwi:226056}}

  • 18 years ago

    Sherry, I grow geranium Rozanne. It blooms all summer here. Mine is planted in full sun and doesn't mind. I don't know how it would do in Florida. I also grow a lot of saliva's and a dwarf cat mint that are mostly a blue/purple. Some of the saliva's do get huge here but others are smaller and less invasive. I also plant a trailing lobelia that reads as a sort of electric blue when you look at it. I love Iris and delphiniums in the mix of plants but I don't know how they would do in your heat.

    Carol

    Here is a link that might be useful: rozanne

  • 18 years ago

    Oh, Carol, Rozanne is gorgeous, but only good to zone 8. Geraniums in general melt here in the summer in the humidity - even in the shade. I was just looking at catmint in the Park's catalog. I think it may have been zone 8, too. There's very little that can take the combination of high heat and high humidity. There was a tall blue lobelia that was pretty, but it was zone 8. So if I can find the Lisianthus I think that will do the trick for blue. There's also Angelonia. It likes our conditions. I think it's kind of lavender - very pretty.
    Thanks for the suggestions though.
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    I'm crazy about sinaloa sage (S. sinaloensis, I believe). There are several low salvias that are blue, not purple. Germander sage is another with silvery-blue foliage and sky-blue flowers.

    I use a trailing veronica that has bright blue flowers.

    I grew a purplish lisianthus this summer - bloomed its fool head off.
    Anita

  • 18 years ago

    Good old annual Lobelia is really blue, and reseeds itself just enough to be useful. FL might be too warm for it? And pansies, but I imagine FL heat would melt pansies even in winter?

  • 18 years ago

    I went to my favorite nursery, Annie's Annuals and choosing the color purple-blue found this lovely thing called an anagallis monelli--a perennial in zones 9-11 that grows in a low mound 9-20 inches and of a clear blue disposition. I've given you a link. Annies photos are usually spot on for color.
    la

    Here is a link that might be useful: anagallis monelli at Annie's Annuals

  • 18 years ago

    A plant I really think you'd like is Ceratostigma willmottianum (Chinese plumbago) - it forms a tidy bush studded with dazzling cobalt/gentian-blue flowers from summer through frost, and the foliage is completely healthy and turns reddish tones in cold weather. It freezes back to the ground here, but might not where you live. The plant always stays put, unlike its creeping cousin C. plumbaginoides, and isn't wild in growth like the more familiar Plumbago auriculata, a more distant cousin. The effect can be slightly subtle (deeper blues tend to recede into the background), but breathtaking in combination with the right plants. For a zinger, you could try the new gold-foliaged cultivar 'Palmgold'. That variety takes on wild burnt-orange tints when the weather gets chilly, at least until a hard freeze knocks it back!

  • 18 years ago

    Sherry,
    If you haven't already begun doing so, I recommend you begin researching plants specifically good for Florida. The state has an idiosyncratic climate (better: group of climates) and it's the Florida gardeners, Florida specialist nurseries, Florida gardening forums and books written for Florida that will give you the best information. See if you can find a good nursery close by, one that has owners who like to track down suitable plants. By the way, there are irises suitable to Florida: the hybrids called Louisiana irises; I don't know whether any of them are true blue. Good luck!

    Melissa

  • 18 years ago

    cemetery rose, the sinaloa sage is lovely but I've never seen it here. I'll have to look closer at the herb racks. I'll look for Veronica.
    luanne, I love the color of anagallis monelli, pimpernel, but I have never seen it.
    hoovb, pansies love our winter and continue into May & even June, laughing at our freezes. I don't have the energy to put out winter annuals this year. Next year I will.
    stefanb8, I like the Chinese plumbago but again have not seen it. But I haven't had much time to spend in the nurseries lately.
    Melissa, from what I understand Louisiana Irises need a boggy situation. That's one thing I don't have. My ground drains like a sieve. Last year I planted some sort of iris bulbs - maybe Dutch - they send up a little sprout maybe 3", and that's it. If anything needs cold like tulips, it won't work unless they're forced in the refrigerator. I actually tried that several years ago. I put them in the fridge then forgot them. What can I say - outta sight, outta mind. There are a couple of local nurseries nearby that I will check out. One apparently has the Lisianthus I want and it's only a few blocks from me. I was going to go today but something came up. You're right about micro climates, but mainly I think that's in winter when low temperatures can vary a good bit from spot to spot. Our last house about 5 miles from here was surrounded by towering oaks with very little sun and lots of shade but in summer even in shade I could not grow hostas, dianthus melted in May and on and on. Wet heat is just tough on plants. Very few typical garden flowers like it. We have to fake it with local facsimiles. But my daylilies like it, and the gaura loved it.
    Thanks everyone.
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    I loved it for its zero maintenance and beautiful color, but it spreads and I don't want that amongst the roses.

    Why not? It does not hurt the roses at all; actually even the foliage looks great with roses. And if they spread into a direction you don't want them, you just pull out that clump.

    You can check out Bluestone perennials and make a custom search for blue flowers in zone (, sandy soil or not and so forth. It may give you a start.

    I thought you are looking for edging plants maybe because you commented how big Gaura and some other plants grew.

    Now I am a bit confused - do you want companion plants planted between your roses (in that case they must have some height) or you want plants only in the front of the beds?

    As far as I know Siberian Iris grows in Florida but I am not sure if it comes in blue. Mine are purple but they do fine among roses, especially with pastels.

    I also like for background planting Tibouchina both the grandifolia and the other variety; Tibouchina is positively purple but looks great behind white, apricot or pale pink roses.

    I think there are many, many plants that you can choose from - you just have to decide what you want.

    Check out Baptisia Australis - one version is sky blue; it flowers early in the season but the gray-bluish foliage looks nice till late summer/fall and excellent for cutting and dressing up rose bouquets. I happen to love the white baptisia very much with its black-burgundy asparagus like stalks emerging before the flowers open white, very early in the season.

    If you have space you could plant Cardoons as a backdrop for your roses - they are very sculptural plants, have blue flowers and almost white stalks - great addition to the garden if you have the space for them; they tend to grow tall and relatively wide.

    A few ideas at the end. There is Torenia in various shades of blue; it prefers some shade but grows in sun, too. It is an annual but definitely self-seeds. But, you can pull out those that emerge in a place you don't want them. Fan flower is very low and would be a spreading groundcover spreading in between roses; it looks very nice in case it gets watered.

  • 18 years ago

    Hello, Sherry!

    When I spoke of climate I didn't mean only average winter lows. You're right that Florida's climate is special because of the high year-round average temperature (about 72-74F where you live), the high summer humidity, and the lack of any prolonged winter chill, coupled with the occasional sharp freeze. Many plants that can handle the winter temperatures can't deal with the summer conditions, or need a chill period (like temperate climate bulbs) that they're not going to get, and that's why you need to find the plants that are suited to Florida specifically. Bulbs are a good example: you can't grow tulips or crocus, but you can grow ginger lilies, paperwhite narcissus, and the milk-and-wine lily whose proper name (a perfectly common one) escapes me. You can't grow apples and cherries, but you can grow citrus and loquats. For everything you can't grow, due to the Florida climate, there's something you CAN grow, due to the Florida climate.

    I tend to think of Florida as one big bog, in spite of ample evidence to the contrary. You're right about the Louisiana irises. For the rest, no blue flowers come to mind and I've strayed off the topic; still, the uniqueness of the Florida garden flora can hardly be overstressed.

    I hope this helps.

    Melissa

  • 18 years ago

    If you have space for a trellis in the background, or maybe a tuteur in the bed, then Clitoria ternatea (blue pea) could be a good plant for you, too. It's grown in Florida so you might find it at a local nursery, and there's a double-flowered version out there as well.

    That particular Ceratostigma is a bit less common and you probably won't find it locally, but there are lots of online nurseries that would happily ship it to you - it's native to warm regions of southern China, so your climate is even more home to it than ours is.

  • 18 years ago

    Clitoria ternatea is indeed true blue and a very beautiful flowering vine. One year I grew it with my Climbing Old Blush (where it was very well-behaved), and this year I let it climb up onto my front porch. There is a white-flowering version as well.

    I think pinks, creams, blues and violet-blues make a really nice combination.

  • 18 years ago

    There are some new blue petunias out if you want something like that. There are also blue pansies, primroses, lobelias, veronicas, ageratums, agapanthus, gladioli, bellflowers (campanula), balloon flowers (platycodon), and some others that I can't think of at the moment. Perhaps there is something in this list that will do you some good.

  • 18 years ago

    Sherry, that Lisianthus is very pretty! I hope you find it at your local nursery.

    Carol

  • 18 years ago

    Carol, I went to the nursery and he said he gets the Lisianthus in early March. He also gets a Florida hybrid Geranium that stands up to the heat.
    ceterum, sorry I confused you. I would love companion plants that are tall and amongst the roses and probably I will use the gaura again, but not until the roses can hold their own and defend themselves! I was just overwhelmed when the companions got bigger than the roses - blocking sun and intruding on the roses. Never having done this before I didn't know what was right. I loved the wispiness of the gaura, and maybe just staking them will help. If you say the Blue Daze will be alright up under the roses, then OK. I don't have room for a border per se. The way I have placed the daylilies I can put Blue Daze in between. I think it will look good. Like I said I think the BD has beautiful color so I don't mind using it - as long as it doesn't impede the roses. My problem is in not knowing how to maintain the companion plants so they stay under control. And once the roses get more mature I will know better how to place things. But when the perennial and the rose are the same size at planting it's hard for a newbie when nature starts going wild.
    I had planted Canna lilies in two spots at the back of the bed last year. Since I don't like orange, naturally that's what came up. I never really cared for them in there. The large leaves were just out of place, and I lost sight of my fine-leaved Chinas. When I cut them down a few weeks ago, it was like wow! that's better; now I have a ROSE garden. I will dig up those bulbs.
    stefanb8 & Alicia, that blue pea is gorgeous, but I'm waiting till later to plant anything like vines. One description said "vigorous, strongly persistent", so I'm gonna wait.
    Melissa, your comments are always welcome. Florida is such a vast state - something like 400 miles north to south so you're right, there are differences from place to place. I am literally on the edge of zone 8B - maybe a couple miles inside - in the middle of the state. What difference that makes, if any, I don't know. We get more cold than Orlando and maybe a little more heat.
    Thanks everybody, you've been very helpful teaching me about companion plants. Ignorance is such a handicap.
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    Flax is sky blue. It's also a short-lived perennial. has the spare look of a wildflower, seeds itself, and you might not find it suitable for you. I don't know much about it except: I've seen it and it looks charming; it was cultivated in ancient Egypt; and I know of someone who grows it near Houston, so I thought it might do ok in Florida.

    Maybe with genetic engineering there'll blue roses in a few years. :)

    Mike

  • 18 years ago

    Yes, Canna is very invasive and spreads too fast. I had one, not even orange that I also dislike but a burgundy leaf Canna behind one of my rose beds but I found that it spread to the direction of rose roots (well, the roses got more water and fertilizer) so after two years we had to take out the entire huge clump. I love the burgundy leaves but the plant now is in a big pot.

    Despite any advice and reading I also had to experiment with perennials; not even the perennials I love work always. I was truly sad to realize that I have problems with black and blue salvia planted among the roses so this winter we take them out.

    Hoovb, Lobelia self-seeds in your garden? Lucky, lucky you! I love those Lobelias and buy a lot of them every year. They never, ever self-seeded here. And they are usually gone by July.

  • 18 years ago

    Blue scaevola (fanflower), normally used in a hanging basket was a great ground cover for my new Golden Celebration this year. Loves the heat here in z8. I also picked up scutellaria at Lowe's last year-- dainty blue flowers on a compact plant, bloomed and bloomed. Check out the plant lists on Floridata.com, it's a terrific website for Florida gardeners.

  • 18 years ago

    I'm going to Floridata.com right now.
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    Ooh I just thought of some passionflowers, there are a good deal that are blue...

  • 18 years ago

    Yes, oath55, there are. My neighbor has one. If it weren't for the Gulf Fritillary caterpillars defoliating it regularly, I think it would eat her house. Everything about it is cool! But it's a glob of a vine, really dense.
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    Since you also have red roses in your garden I'd suggest using more purple than blue, which works since most of what is called blue is actually purple anyway, lol. Whatever you choose I'm sure the result will be lovely!

  • 18 years ago

    That's a good idea, Alicia. I'll stay open on the blues and purples. I know I'll be antsy all spring waiting for these roses to take off. I'm glad I got this many at least in the ground in December, giving them a headstart on the heat and on growth. I'm eager to start digging on the other side of the garden, but it's raining today.
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    Blue daze and verbena would be my choices if I lived in Florida, as it does much better there. Geranium here kind of peters out after June. Homestead verbena and blue daze.

  • 18 years ago

    I'm so glad you started this thread Sherry. It sure is helping me out with ideas!

    Sandy

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