Hmf lists them both as 5 b

Thanks for the input. I have had too many roses die due to lack of hardiness and I don't trust HMF cold hardiness ratings. I bought Star of the Nile last year on a recommendation that it would survive the winter. We shall see.

Good news.

Hi predfern: Thank you for helping me in the past when I had questions. Hoovb has a blog comparing Lady Emma Hamilton with Louis Clements .... Lady Emma beats Louis.

I have 2 roses died this winter since they are tiny rootings (3 inches tall) in a dry-out raised bed. But Roseseek-bred Annie L. McDowell, which died on Seil (her zone 6b), survived my zone 5a winter.

I grew Annie in a pot until her rootball is 2 gallon ... then I transferred her into the ground Thanksgiving, 4" below ground level. I also watered her late fall when it was dry.

Liv Tyler planted last August is a monster now ... she's green to the tip. Meilland and Romantica roses like my alkaline clay soil.

I experimented with keeping the soil moist longer for roses, and posted the info. in the thread "Cocoa mulch for nitrogen and potassium" to inform folks NOT to mulch with cocoa mulch (dogs get sick eating that stuff), but to put that stuff in the hole for moisture retention and earthworms. Best done many months before planting, for it to be fully decomposed.

Cocoa mulch is sold for $3.59 per 2 cubic foot-bag at Menards. It's manufactured in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin.

I loved my 'Louise', but it declined and declined after a move and never recovered. It is one I would try again if I got a good specimen. Hardiness is not an issue here. Wasn't it Olga in zone 6(?) that had a jaw-dropping gorgeous specimen of LC?

You are right, Hoovb, that Olga has that awesome LC plus Star of the Nile. She has acidic soil ... good for Clements roses.

I have alkaline clay soil at pH 7.7 I'm so glad I changed my order and took out LC and Star of the Nile last year, thanks to Hoovb' blog.

Liv Tyler as a Romanticas doesn't like acidic soil, Andrea Georgia wrote in HMF that Liv Tyler died in her zone 8 winter in Cambridge, England. It's green to the tip in my zone 5a winter, since it has huge root in my alkaline clay.

Frederic Mistral as a Romantica likes my alkaline clay, green to the tip, many basal breaks after zone 5a winter.

How big the root is affects winter hardiness. Some roses don't like alkaline clay and won't be vigorous like Clements Roses. Austin Eglantyne died in my zone 5a winter last year. I bought as a gallon-size but its root kept shrinking. Kittymoonbeam (alkaline clay) has the same experience with Mary Rose (Austin own-root).

It's good to check the pH of one soil. I wrote the procedure to obtain soil's pH using $1.50 of red cabbage juice & distilled water. See the link below:

Here is a link that might be useful: Cheapest way to test soil pH using red cabbage

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Thu, May 2, 13 at 18:05

Most of my roses made it through the winter except Buck's Enchanted Autumn. Mary Rose is doing just fine but Liv Tyler died a few years ago when I did not winter protect. Star of the Nile survived but canes died to the ground. Lady Emma Hamilton survived mostly intact but is still not very big. This year I am experimenting with Saint-Exupery.

Thank you, Predfern. I appreciate the info. very much. It's good to know which one is wimpy as own-root, so I'll get that grafted.

I have problems with Nahema being stingy. It's pathetic in a pot, while Sonia Rykiel pumped out 15 blooms in the pot. In the ground, Sonia Rykiel is a champ in the spring (big bush). In the ground Nahema is pathetic after the winter, so few leaves. Others report Nahema as stingy.

I wish I know what makes Nahema work? Thanks for any info.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Fri, May 3, 13 at 16:43

I don't do anything special with Nahema. It is near a chain link fence on the south side of my house. I use 13-13-13 from Blain's and water it good once a week. Mine survived the winter with most of its canes intact.