well I have faithfully looked back through a lot of these disagreements between Mr.Kuska and Mr.Manners and (although I may be being a bit thick) it all seems like a bit of a storm in a teacup - well, not for the two blokes in question of course. I am not even sure that Mr.Kuska is overtly disagreeing with Mr.Manners but is just throwing out various suggestions which seem sort of feasible. As far as I can understand, one of the bones of contention seems to be Mr.Kuska's insistence on the climate having some sort of affect. Well as far as I can see, following various links, it appears that the temperature (and therefore climate) does have an affect....not on whether a rose is virused or not but how that virus is expressed during certain times of year. Rose Spring Dwarf (which seems to have only been seen in California and research seems to be incomplete and certainly not absolutely conclusive about many aspects)seems to be asymptomatic during the hottest season. Moreover, as heat treatment is cited as a way of 'cleaning' virused roses, one can see why a non-virologist may reach certain conclusions. Frankly, I am more than happy to accept the limits of my understanding of sneaky RNA and other cellular mayhem. Whatever,if I saw the horrible distortions and mottlings on any of my plants, I am afraid they would be offski, quicksmart.