Double White, Mary Queen of Scotts and Doorenbos Selection are all wonderful and healthy for me. I especially love Doorenbos Selection. The color is so deep in life.
Olga

I hate to whittle your collection down further, but Petite Pink Scotch isn't really a spinosissima... it's a found, dwarf hybrid luciae (wichurana) of some sort.

I love them all, but have a special fondness for the good old yellow foetida-spinosissima hybrids like 'Harison's Yellow'; it never fails to cheer me up with its sunny flowers and sweet fragrance.

I suddenly am very intrigued by these early blooming roses, including the scotch roses, which look like they could be very useful in a breeding program. Very unusual habit and look to them.

I think I want Doorenbos Selection now, that does not look like a rose, total shock factor!

Do many of these early bloomers have light fragrances? Or can they be really fragrant like multiflora?

Max

Double White is very fragrant.
Stephan, Harrison's Yellow doesn't like it here in my experience. Gets BS badly.
Olga

Olga, I can always count on you to have the answer! I also was about to say that I remember someone saying Harrison's Yellow doesn't do very well here.

Hugonis does well here though, if I'm not mistaken?

The one at the Nat'l Arboretum seems to do quite well BS-wise... it's had pretty minimal loss of foliage.

On fragrance, I couldn't detect any on 'Doorenbos Selection' - but it's so darned cute and colorful that it really doesn't matter much. Other spins tend to be pretty well scented, but it could be the pendulina influence cutting down on scent in that one.

I think it's usually good to consider multiple opinions before writing off roses sometimes, because microclimate and differing blackspot strains can and do make a huge difference among gardens. I think Olga has a pretty challenging set of circumstances to work with, but I notice that a lot of her roses (but certainly not all of them) seem to perform better around here.

Stefan! What do you know about Doorenbos Selection and Rosa pendulina? Need more data! I can't find anything about Doorenbos Selection, including a source attributing it so S.G.A. Doorenbos.

Spinos do shockingly well here. They tolerate sandy soils (the European spins are dune-growers) and nothing seems to phase them. Doorenbos Selection is the cutest thing you ever saw. I need many more.

Hugonis is great here. Beautiful and not a spec of disease.
Olga

The idea that the darker spins are all pendulina hybrids seems to have been tossed around for some time now... I don't know if he was the first, but Peter Boyd does mention it in his article for another reference. They seem to hybridize easily, and in fact, DNA testing has revealed even the pure species to be something of a genetic hodge-podge itself (and apparently, R. spinosissima 'Altaica' is not even closely related to other spins and belongs in Cinnamomeae; how's that for juicy gossip?).

I've often wondered about the precise origins of 'Doorenbos Selection' myself. Historically, it seems there have always been these red-flowered pimpinellifolias, and that combined with their rarity makes it hard to know much of anything.

Stefan, I think you are right that your conditions are better. I have several rose friends around where I live, as well as my sister, and we have similar experience with the same roses, so I know it is not just me. We practice different approaches to gardening, but the result with roses is quite close.
I also know several people who garden in DC and it does look like there is less BS pressure for you. Do you think it can be effect of big city, that makes it half zone warmer or less humid or the air is more polluted. I was wondering about it myself. I know half zone warmer(7b) in Virginia there is less BS pressure too. But North of me, in PA conditions are pretty challenging.
Olga

I am tickled by these roses. They look "cute", like naturally charmingly "cute". Kinda remind me of raspberries by looking at their habit... From what it sounds like that a great deal of the spinssissimas would do well here, at least the ones not derived from foetida. Would that probably be the case?

What about Stanwell Perpetual? That looks too good to be true.

i have stanwell perpetual, william III, 3 golden wings which are great. I will be getting this spring, fruhlingsgold,golden chersonase,maigold,r hugonis,r. spinosissima,suzanne.

Olga, I think you might be right that there is some sort of dividing line between a "bs zone" and a more bs-unfriendly region - I'm not even sure myself where it goes, but I have friends who garden in the northeastern suburbs, Virginia, and Southeastern Maryland and all seem to have similar conditions to here with less BS pressure and warmer temperatures overall than what the NW suburbs and beyond seem to have. I think it probably has more to do with heat (and possibly a heat/moisture interaction) than pollution, although I wouldn't rule that out either... all air seems really polluted to me here; it feels like it's been a long time since I smelled truly sweet, clean air.

Spins are tough little roses - much tougher than they look (well, until you see their "teeth" - wicked little things!) 'Stanwell Perpetual' isn't completely immune to BS, but seems to shrug it off, and its airy appearance helps to sort of visually blend away the leaf drop. Mine up North growing in part shade grows a lot but only blooms once a year so far; the ones at work that are in a pretty hot spot and get pruned more are always in bloom and stay pretty low. I think they appreciate fairly well-drained soil if they can get it, but are far from fussy.

Max, the closest patch of 'Doorenbos Selection' I know of to you would be on the campus of Swarthmore, where they have a delightfully diverse and crammed rose garden. I think you'd enjoy seeing it if you haven't already, and the whole campus is a beautiful arboretum in the first place.

Here's my list of spins and one other...tell me what you think.

Double White
Dominie Sampson
Andrewsii
Fruhlingsmorgen
Suzanne
Mary Queen of Scots
William III
Mrs. Colville
Fruhlingsgold
Frühlingszauber
Highdownensis

Robert

I haven't seen any of those roses in this area - hopefully Olga will have grown a fair number of them. I noticed that a vigorous first-year Rosa moyesii was mildewing all season long (as was R. omeiensis), but I remember seeing R. moyesii at Green Spring and don't recall any major disease issues (although they apparently weren't able to fruit there).

Of the Frühlings series, it will almost certainly be recognized in the future that only Frühlingsgold and Frühlingstag are technically spinosissimas, assuming their recorded parentage is correct. I haven't grown the ones you listed, but I'm curious how they do in this region; I planted an 'Aïcha' up north, and so far it has been a blackspot magnet (whereas 'Harison's Yellow' seems quite healthy).

Here, Harison's Yellow has trouble with leaf diseases, and a very awkward growth habit. One of the local FAQ's concerns pruning a once-blooming yellow rose that looks just awful as a plant - Harison's Yellow. The Oriental species all make much nicer plants.

Altaica also has problems with leaf diseases in a location that several other spins are fine with.

The most amazing thing about my R. moyesii 'Geranium' to me is that it's planted on the edge of a wild area, not too far from the road. A couple of years ago, the road crews replaced a culvert and did a lot of clearing in that area. The end result was a very carefully cleared out 'Geranium'. It could have been coincidence, but I'm not convinced.

Can spinosissimas fill an early season bloom void? Possibly. And then the light fall rebloom comes as a bit of langniappe.
I do have R. spinosissima, R. spinosissima altaica, Harison's Yellow, Golden Wings and Suzanne. All are keepers.
They have beauty, but they have something else, as well. They are the delight that keeps me working in the gardens around the roses that don't bloom early, and that don't merit early season attention. After a month or two of working outdoors, if I had to wait an additional month for first flush, that wait would seem interminable. With blooms coming a month earlier, it's just easier to be in the gardens.

You mean they groomed your 'Geranium' for you?!

Yes, 'Harison's Yellow' isn't the most shapely of plants. It probably isn't adapted to every region, either. Here's a bush photographed by my parents in a small town in North Dakota, where it seems to feel at home:

{{gwi:232044}}

Fragrance has been touched on lightly here.To my nose there are few roses more fragrant and with a scent that carries better than Rosa spinosissima - right up there with lilacs and following shortly thereafter. Spinosissima is also a valuable season extender, being my earliest rose to bloom in my zone 5b coastal climate.
Often wondered about the breeding potential of the 'spins' and noticed quite often that there are canes that rebloom in late summer, especially on Kakwa.
Yes, Doorenbos is definitely a charmer as is Glory of Edzell, only on a much,much larger scale!

One of the most fragrant roses I have ever grown is 'Fruhlingsduft,' the best in the Fruhlings clan, IMO. It is very healthy and hardy in zone 4 Minnesota. Last summer it started reblooming after four years in my garden. It is a big, arching rose.

{{gwi:232045}}

'Fruhlingsduft'

'Doorenbos Selection' is a little charmer. Vivid flowers with metallic-gold centers. It blooms just once for me. The leaves have excellent fall color. This one spreads very slowly. No scent at all. Early bloom.
{{gwi:232046}}

{{gwi:232047}}

'Doorenbos Selection' surrounded by feral columbines.

'Golden Wings' is not as hardy as the others for me and it can get BS. But it is as close to an everblooming rose as any. Nice scent. Since the JBs have now discovered my garden, I am sad to say this rose is preferred above all others by the little terrors.
{{gwi:232048}}

'Golden Wings'

I also have Rosa primula and 'Fruhlingsgold.' The former is a treasure for me -- I love the scented leaves and early bloom. I cannot get a good photo of it. I have a new camera, so I'll try again this May.

I grow less enchanted with 'Fruhlingsgold' each year. It's great in the spring, but leafless by August. Just a once-bloomer for me. The flowers are lovely but practically ephemeral. The whole show is over in less than two weeks.
{{gwi:232049}}

'Fruhlingsgold'

I tried Golden Wings twice, own root and grafted on multiflora, because I really loved the flowers. It is excellent rose but not for my garden, too much BS.
Fruhlingsgold didn't impress me at all. Lots of disease. I am not against onceblooomers by amy means, but there are too many healthy ones to choose from.
I don't have any experience with Fruhlingsduft.
Glory of Edzell is young plant for me, last year was its first in my garden. Love the flowers but then it got BS and spend the rest of summed naked. I will still keep it just put it in not so visible place. This way I can enjoy it in spring and then forget about it.
Hugonis, Canary Bird and Cantabigiensis are absolutely wonderful. Somehow I am less impressed with primula. In my garden it has smaller flowers,they are less fragrant and bloom period is shorter then with other three. Leaves on my primula doesn't have any fragrance, which really dissapointed me. Probably I have a bad clone.
Olga
Olga

I'm certainly getting some excellent responses to this post. I was really hoping to hear that all of my choices were excellent and I couldn't go wrong...Alas, that's not the case.

Olga, I do have Hugonis, Canary Bird, Cantabigiensis and primula. I've put each in areas that are a little more "natural" and get either morning or afternoon sun. I'm hoping they won't be unhappy without the requisite 6 hours of sun.

I think I have Harrison's yellow, but, I'm not sure. It never really took off, and it's growing near some virginiana..and, I'm not sure that what I think is Harrison's yellow isn't just some suckers from virginiana.

dr andre, those pictures are wonderful. I wonder what they would look like in the hot humid south?

everyone else...I appreciate this thread. Are any of the roses on my list definitely worth trying? I tend not to add roses that have a reputation for being fussy or disease prone. I had heard that Golden Wings gets BS, so I've never tried it. I understand location location location...but, if someone with similar growing conditions would recommend a few from my list, that would be helpful.

Robert

'Golden Wings' gets BS here, so it would be a total leper in coastal VA. Same with 'Fruhlingsgold.' They do well elsewhere, so I posted them here. I would leap on Hugonis. It is a lovely, airy thing and I have never heard a bad thing about it. I lust after 'Canary Bird,' but it's too tender for my place -- but if Olga says it's great, then it is. Beales' pictures of it are inspiring. I recall some postings from Jon de Wessex that are equally captivating.

Harison's has R. foetida in there somewhere. Out in the drydrydry west you find Harison's everywhere, and it's quite leafy when you find it. I gave one to my father in Indiana and his is okay. But VA is a summertime sauna, so your mileage will vary.

Dr A (alter ego of JohnW)

John, I'm positive that 'Canary Bird' will be hardy in southern Minnesota... why do you think otherwise?

Stephan, I assumed 'Canary Bird' was too tender because it has the xanthina parent which was not hardy for me. I have not seen CB here, but perhaps I leapt at an incorrect conclusion? On your recommendation I will look for local reference. Perhaps this could replace my faltering 'Fruhlingsgold?'

I favor yellow roses. CB could do well.

Re-reading this thread, I should comment on 'Suzanne.' It is a parent, as many of you know, for the hardy Explorer roses. But be aware this is one traveling rose; it pops up everywhere.

I forgot I have a near-Scots rose, 'Prairie Dawn.' That one is a true mongrel, but spinossissima accounts for the majority of its heritage. Mine is a big bruiser of a rose, everblooming with flowers that smell like lily-of-the-valley to my nose. It drops all its leaves in July, but that doesn't daunt it. Sadly, mine is loosing the sunlight battle to a nearby pine and I must take it out this spring. PD gave me years of enjoyment

I grew several Scots roses down in SE Texas (Blackspot country), and they grew just fine. I especially liked Kakwa as it bloomed more often, though it certainly knows how to spread! Still, worth having. I grew Stanwell Perpetual down in Orlando Florida grafted onto Fortuniana, and that did just fine down there as well. One interesting thing about breeding them is it may be true that one-off hybrids are often repeat-bloomers. I've grown several, and I especially like all the ones without Altaica in them (like Kakwa, Doorenbos Selection, Glory of Edzell, Andrewsii, William III, William's Double Yellow, double white, double cream, etc.). I would say they're my favorite class after the Albas. And they have penetratingly sweet fragrance, but they are much better (almost necessary to be) on their own roots, at least the non-Altaica types.

--Ron

John, I've had a seedling of a 'Canary Bird' derivative at my parents' home in the NW Twin Cities suburbs that should be even more tender, but it hasn't lost so much as an inch of wood - and judging from the characteristic tiny leaves and wicked thorns (it hasn't bloomed yet but is getting huge), it hasn't crossed with anything. Since 'Canary Bird' is the primary source of hardiness in its background, I really think you should give it a try. I'm actually surprised to hear that R. xanthina was tender, but I suppose the line has to be drawn somewhere...!

As far as I know Canary Bird is only available from Hortico and Vintage (custom root). Pickering used to carry it, but 3-4 years ago they took it off their list. I think it is a shame that such a wonderful rose is not more availble in US. I have one from Pickering and one from Hortico and lOVE them.
Olga

I totally forgot Dr F L Skinner, it is a lovely thing. I know Ann grows it in TN and it might do well in VA.

Suzy, where did you get your 'Dr. F. L. Skinner'? I tried ordering once from Hortico... and they sent me a 'Martin Frobisher' labeled as DFLS instead. I was pretty miffed.

A version of Canary Bird is spending it's first winter in my garden and it will be interesting to see if it is hardy. I say a version as there seems to be some concern expressed there are two versions out there, one with large flowers and one like mine that are smaller.

My Canary Bird is from Brentwood Bay Nurseries who did export to the states but have a minimum. It definitely has the traits stated of cb in that it suffers die back that has nothing to do with winter.

My seedling did that once - lost almost a whole cane while the rest was completely unaffected. It was weird, but I knew it was a possibility given the background so it wasn't a total shock. I don't think the plant had quite topped two feet by that time.