Married to a realtor, I learned the hard way in 1986 that "you can't take it with you". I neglected to specify that I wanted to dig up and move the sage my mother had given me years earlier. It wasn't in the contract, so it stayed.
I know that it is hard to see old places modified by new owners' needs/wants. We sold my mother's house several years after her death, and the young family who bought it immediately tore out her blueberry bushes and raspberries in the back yard behine the garage, and the rose border against the back of the garage. I was furious - they actually paved over part of the backyard! Then I learned that they had a "gear head" son in his early teens, and were creating a space for him - and importantly, also his friends - to work on cars. That space was a magnet for the "guys", and allowed that family to nurture their son's interest while maintaining some oversight of the activities. Anyone who has taught or raised teenagers knows that if you can, you want your house to be the hangout house. So - the choice between letting the berries turn to brush (the mom wasn't the Queen of preserves that my mother raised her daughters to be) or making a use fit for their new home. Sad for us, but a no-brainer for them.
I am reminded of something I learned when our minister retired - a woman who has remained a member of the church, and was part of our community long before her ministry. The denomination guidelines recommend that the newly retired minister in that situation actually separate from the church community for awhile, in order that the interim and then new settled minister can build their relations with the congregation. That was nearly ten years ago, and she returns to "her" old pulpit frequently now as a guest minister, but I understand the need to let a new gardener have freedom to tend the flock. (mixing metaphors, as usual...)

Susan, that is one big reason I don't want to move, my garden.
I'm sorry I did not get to see your beautiful creation. I know this must be difficult for you and I'm sorry for that too. I trust you will find some way of having beauty at your new place. What about some potted roses?

Carla

Thanks for the kind words. I have my pictures, and I think they may give me a whole lot of enjoyment in the weeks and months ahead until I know what I can plant where. My husband actually said last night he'd like to go through some of the pictures to see what we may want to have again. That sounds like fun (I hope.)

I understand how difficult this is for you, leaving a beloved garden. Perhaps it might help to think of this as a new adventure, a chance to replicate the parts of the garden you liked best of all, and leave behind you any mistakes or frustrations. Your husband's idea sounds like a good one to me. Maybe you could even take notes of your favorite parts.

I wish you the best of luck with your soon-to-be beautiful new garden.

Rosefolly

A garden is only as viable as its caretaker. Stewardship cannot be deeded forward; new owners are entirely at liberty to make whatever mess of their property they wish.

In the end, there is only forward: ye good olde "one door closes and another one opens" kind of approach. So.....onward!

Paul

Rosefully, you're right. Sometimes, honestly, we think of it and think "whew" it's their huge garden now....truth be told! So, there are several ways to think of it. It was a big garden to take care of, including tons of perennials. But still...

Paul, I know, I know, and I will be excited at the prospect, but, geez, what a garden we had. We'll never have one like that again.

I once had a small but luxurious garden that I had to leave behind when I moved 11 years ago. It was full of lovingly raised rare perennials and all manner of OGR roses. The new owners of the house mentioned how much they loved roses and were so pleased to have inherited my garden.

Fast forward two years and the 'Tuscany Superb's and the 'Felicite Parmentier's and 'Alba semi-plena's were gone, replaced with 'Double Delight's and 'Angel Face's. Oh well!

Paul

Susan, for what it's worth, I've moved around 6 times in the last 20 years and I know it's painful to leave behind your past creations. You obviously put your heart and soul into your gardens there and it's been hard for you to move on. But gardening is an art of change and transformation, this just happens to be a drastic one, beginning again.

While I was sad to leave some really special gardens, I was even more excited to explore the potential of a new one. I think that going over photos with your husband is a great way to mull over what you loved and what you might change, and what you'd like to try again. It's a great opportunity to evaluate, having learned so much already. Sounds kind of like one of the steps in a grieving process, which I think it is for you.

My "new" garden is 4 year old now, and still changing and growing. It's entirely different than my last, or any other I've had. That's part of the fun!

I know I'm rambling but I know a thing or two about moving and the psychological effects that go with that. Just to relate a little anecdote, my husband was travelling last week up to New England where we used to live. He travelled 80 miles or so out of his way to see one of our old houses. It was buried under snow but he saw the line of 100 or so Balsam Fir seedlings we planted about 10 years ago. They are now huge and healthy and creating the green hedge we originally planned for. That made us both feel good. And I know the Sugar Maple we planted in Maine at our daughter's birth 26 years ago is standing strong and tall too, even though we are not there to admire it.

So I guess we should be glad for the gardens we have had, those we have now, and those we will create in the future. And maybe we should all plant a tree or two in our gardens. Shrubs and perennials may come and go, but trees usually survive. They may be our ultimate garden legacy.

Tivoli - I have moved all my long life.
Here's my little bit of advice for you: Get involved with your new garden NOW. Your plan to watch for sun placement, etc., is admirable, but I think if I were you, I would get some roses and some companion plants, pot them up, and place them around your property in likely spots. You can keep notes as to how the sun strikes them (or not), how they look where you've placed them, etc. - this will help to visualize the garden-to-be and will also help you to feel involved in it. Periodically, you can get a new rose, or a new companion plant, as the mood strikes you, or move the pots around to try new combinations, and that will keep the interest up. You can keep a regular notebook on all this and add little sketches and maps about where things might do best and why. This will all lead to much browsing in catalogs and books, which is always fun.
Believe me, although I only had to leave an actual garden once, I have left a lot of places and friends, and this is the way I learned to cope with it - by getting as involved as possible in the place I've landed.
Hope you will feel better soon.
Laura

Susan, I'm glad they changed their minds about listening to you - they might be interested in looking at some of your pictures, too.

I had this sort of experience from the opposite perspective, sort of. My husband and I moved into a house and garden that had already been in his family for 84 years when we moved in. The gardeners who had planned & maintained the garden were his great grandparents, grandparents, & father. When we moved in we were about 40 and his father was about 75. One day we were talking about a giant eugenie tree which was in the front yard, and dropped its berries (which stain) right onto the front walk leading up to the front door. My husband and I talked about maybe taking it out. My father-in-law looked up at my husband for a moment, and then said quiety: "Your grandmother loved that tree...". That was the end of the discussion about taking it down!

A few years later my husband's grandmother's antique climbing petunias (which evidently can come back decades later if the soil is disturbed) suddenly emerged & took over a flower bed, climbing up to 4 feet high and making a gorgeous display. We mostly left the garden alone the first few years, and after I learned more about gardening I realized that the huge shrubs were blooming in succession, that we had loads of heritage Iris that bloomed after I moved them back into the sun, along with dozens of old roses & bulbs ditto. I have spent lots of time since discovering all sorts of old heritage roses & plants in our garden and spreading them around, and my husband has re-established some of the old garden paths he remembered from his childhood. We cleared the enromous blackberry thicket out from next to the garage, and found a huge old concrete incinerator burried underneath them, which we now use for composting. Anyway, it has been really fun exploring & adapting our garden - and we certainly appreciate the generations of gardeners in his family who loved it and planted it. We have pictures of when the house was new, and the lot was empty and flat and barren - now it is covered with huge trees, bushes, & flowers, & full of wildlife.

The new people who own your garden will undoubtedly change it, but hopefully you can give them enough information to appreciate what they have to start with.

Jackie

When I was a small child, the people who lived across the street from our family had a gorgeous garden. In particular, they had 4 circle shaped planters by the front walk and there was a big healthy HT in each planter. Decades have passed, and that house has been through several owners, and the once gorgeous garden was long gone, and the circle shaped planters became a half-dead Bermuda grass lawn.

The other day, I looked at our old house via Google maps street view, and was amazed to see in the photos that whoever lives in that neighbor's house now has restored that garden to something like its orginal glory, with, yes, circle shaped planters with a big healthy HT in each by the front walk.

So now I like to think that gardeners are attracted to certain properties, and though my garden may vanish under the next persons ownership, someday, perhaps a long time from now, another gardener will make it beautiful again.

This is a painful reminder of the experience I had with the glorious garden that my father and step mom nurtured for years. The centerpiece of their garden was a spectacular, very old wisteria grown as a large standard. The unique thing about the wisteria was the color or its exceedingly long racemes -- a deep, brilliant true pink that I've never seen elsewhere, before or since. When the home was sold, I was given assurances by the buyer's representative that I could return to take cuttings of the wisteria. I spent a great deal of time researching wisteria propagation, and hired a graduate student in horticulture to accompany me on the almost 200 mile round trip and to make the cuttings.

It was only when we arrived that I learned that the home had been purchased by a law firm and converted into an office. The garden had been cleared to make room for a large addition and a parking lot. The very spot where the wisteria had once stood was, on that day, occupied by a late model maroon BMW. To make a long story brief, none of the plants had been salvaged.

I've given up on ever finding that specific variety of wisteria, but I treasure it in memory. I also remember how much pleasure we derived from that garden over many years. Gardens, like all living things, are for the moment -- the here and now. If they survive our period of stewardship, that's a wonderful bonus.

tivoli rose,
These are wise words on everyone's part. All you can do is garden wherever you are, and let the results work their magic. The garden probably won't last for centuries, but its effects will live on, not only in your own heart and mind, but in the little boy down the street who loved all those flowers, or your visitors whom you introduce to roses they never dreamed of before. Nothing in life is fixed; all you can do is create wisdom and beauty, struggling against the tide of destruction.

Philosopy apart, I found that I ceased to regret my Washington state garden when, and only when my Italian garden was well under way. It's hard to leave a beautiful garden behind, but once you get absorbed in the new own you will regret it much less. I hope there is some possibility of a fruitful collaboration between you and the new owners. Good luck with that, and with your new garden!

Melissa

My mother and dad lived in NY at the same house for thirty years. Once all of us kids were older, my mom really got into gardening, and created a truly beautiful garden throughout much of the property.

After they moved to Virginia, they discovered that a lot of plants they had loved dearly in New York would not grow at their new property for lack of sun.

Mom has since become an expert at shade gardening and fending off deer. She talks about the old garden from time to time, but mostly she's plotting new holes for my dad to dig, and planning out the next thing to plant.

Our lives only move in one direction and that is forward. I have only seen pictures of your garden, Tivoli, and have complete confidence that you will create another beautiful outdoor space.

Having said all that, a period of grieving for the lost garden would be normal, I expect.

Elaine

Susan,
What a bummer. I have made many moves in my lifetime and left many gardens-it always hurts but now my expectations have dramatically dropped over the years and if ANYTHING is left after I leave I feel grateful. All the above advice is good. You had a drop dead gorgeous garden; the plants haven't changed nor has the most important thing, the designer/gardener. You can do it again but differently and better. You wouldn't wear the same dress when you go out to a party so now its time for a new one. Console yourself that you have your lovely pictures. My consolation is that I still have a memory of your lovely pictures!
I have already been thinking about your new place. Ginter Botanical Garden where I volunteer has a sunken garden and the walls are made of laid stone. Between the stones in the wall, they have planted here and there white candytuft, sedums, hens and chicks, those small light pink dianthus with the gray green foliage- not heavily planted but just here and there- it looks lovely all year around. When I saw the pics of your stone wall I immediately thought of that and on my next volunteer day, I walked over their and "investigated" it closely.
As for the hill and woods, its wildness and openness is beautiful in itself.One doesn't see a "woods" to often in your area. Spring would be delightful starting with winter aconite(laborless), the daffodils, and later the scillas with a nice rose bush here and there. Gardening on a hill is not easy and only gets harder as one gets older. The semiwild look will be lovely. Just my thoughts. Each garden is like a person, unique and with its good points and its bad points. With your designer eye, I am not wasting a second worrying about its future; I just KNOW it will be different but drop dead gorgeous. To ease the waiting pains of birth, buy yourself a couple of roses that you know will be must haves and start them in decent size utilitarian black pots. They will do well for a year and can be moved around with ease and will relieve the itch to get started.
Enjoy the planning,
Jim

Oh Susan-----How horrible------I did have the pleasure of strolling through your gorgeous garden and I feel very sad for you.
My daughter is going through a nasty divorce and she is heartsick about leaving her garden----many of her roses that were babies when I gave them to her----she also has a plant from a now deceased best friend--and My DH propagated most of her azaleas so Robyn and I will both understand your pain.
Her DH is being very difficult about the gardens which prior to this he took no interest in at all.

If I were in better health I would go there personally and start digging------even at the risk of him calling the police----

I know how you feel about strolling through your garden every morning----Hopefully you will soon have new "babies" to watch grow.

thinking of you and wishing you the best-----

Florence

A different perspective...

An associate of mine bought a house two years ago. She has a young family. She was looking for a yard where her children could run around, and being from a large extended family, wanted a large, private yard where she could host gatherings.

They found their ideal house that included a great patio and pool, and a large meadow next door. The couple who sold it to them were older empty-nesters who were looking to downsize. They were also uber-gardeners. The yard had several themed gardens. They offered all sorts of advice to my friend and even included a manual on how to take care of the plants she never had seen before.

My friend appreciated the lovely garden, but that's not why she bought the house. The following spring she sought me out, looking for advice on on how to tend the gardens. There was a lot of unusual stuff there. Things that needed pruning and biannual division.

She and her husband are both hardworking professionals who cannot afford the time the previous owners had. Further, she really had no interest in the garden. She looked to hire a service but balked at the steep price. She worried about the pond and waterfall, which she saw as a liability.

What made matters worse were the ongoing offers from the previous owners who moved across town. They would show up -- or call- with unasked-for advice. Worse, they often drive slowly past the house. My friend didn't appreciate this at all.

She's now decided to reduce the plantings out front and replace them with grass. The pond will go this season, too. Secretly, she's hoping this will also stop the drive-bys.

The point? It's her house now. Or, rather, it's her home.

Dr Andre makes a good point. When the time comes that I leave this house and garden, I expect to be sad about the changes that the new owner will make. Inevitably the new owner will make changes. How did I know that this will happen? I need only look at the changes my husband and I made when we moved here.

Tom and I remodeled the house from top to bottom. Well, I don't think the previous owner would mind that too much since we were the only potential buyer who did not plan to scrape and start fresh. But of the original garden nothing is left except some of the fruit trees. I replaced a garden of irises, shasta daisies, alstromeria, and agapanthus with a garden of roses and very different perennials and shrubs. I removed several trees that were too close to the house -- a huge old cedar, a sycamore, several fruit trees, a eucalyptus that was growing into the power lines, a dying Japanese maple, and several unhealthy black walnuts. I have since planted a number of other fruit trees (more than I removed) and put in several raised beds for vegetables.

It seems to me that it is a much improved garden (and house) these days. But I am quite sure that the people who lived here before would not agree with me.

Having said all this, I must confess that I once went past a house where I used to live to see if some trees I had planted were still there. I was very pleased to see that they were.

Rosefolly

P.S. One of the former owners (two sisters) did get a dream come true from the sale of the house. She took a long-planned trip around the world and sent us a post card with a picture showing her perched on a camel in Egypt, huge smile on her face.

Susan, I have many beautiful pictures of your garden imbedded in my mind which I will have for as long as I have my "mind," but that is going fast.

Remember, "grow" where you are planted, and that can be taken to mean many different things, but I think you know what I mean. It's a new life, it's a new place, it's a new world and you can grow, grow, grow from each experience and with each experience.

My regret is always leaving friends behind. If you need roses, give us all a yell. I bet half of us would share or root for you whatever it is your little heart desires.

It has been my experience that each garden is better than the ones that preceded it. I've learned with each garden so that I've been able to improve on past mistakes. I think of past gardens as practice for the one I'm in now. Also, as I've matured my tastes have changed. Your new garden will be magical, I'm sure.

If that is the case -- and I am perfectly convinced that it will be -- then the next garden will overwhelm us all. I, too, have enjoyed the pictures of the old one.

The best of luck, and lots of fun to you, Susan!

Rosefolly

Susan, I feel your pain. We moved a little over a year ago and I left behind my beloved garden with over 100 roses. Looking at my pictures is bittersweet...it is like seeing old friends again but makes me miss them more. And I will miss those morning strolls as well...spring was spectacular! But I am excited about the idea of creating a new garden now. And hopefully using all the things I learned in my old garden to maybe do it a little better this time! My husband has asked me several times if I want to drive by our old house but I always say no...I want to remember it the way I left it.

Susan dear, I am so sorry but you must let go and never look back. It's their garden now and you are building your own new garden. I feel like working with them is like giving advice to an ex husband's new wife, painful. Someday when I'm too old to care for this life's work I'll just have to turn over the keys. I really believe that when a gardener leaves the garden can never be the same. Really though I do understand and sympathize. Best wishes.

Paul, maybe at the time it was good that they told you that and they probably believed it, till they decided otherwise. Who wants to hear that they'll just get rid of it all? I'd freak out. :)

linrose, I love those sentiments, really, a legacy that remains. I like that. Surely some plantings will remain. What a great feeling it must have been to see what you had planted. How nice. Thanks.

Laura, You know, you may have a good point there, to begin the process. I think the process will allow us to sort of "own" our new property. We would normally be outside pruning now.

Jackie, it sounds like you have put in a lot of thought and care and sensitivity to its history as well as looking toward the future. What a jumble of emotions there must have been. And yes, I do care about providing good information, that's right.

hoovb, you must have felt good to have seen the garden returned to its full potential. Google earth is a good thing! If just some plants remain, I'd like that for some reason.

Jaxondel, very insightful...I have often had that feeling, that a bloom I'm looking at would be very different just 2 hours later. I guess it's all fleeting. And I'm very sorry for your loss of that loved wisteria.

Melissa, thank you for your words. I think it's interesting that it was fairly soon that you merged into your Italian garden so easily. I don't think I'll have that luck. But, you never know. Maybe once my husband and I get working again in this new garden, it will sort of feel the same as before.

Elaine, yes, you're right about moving forward and I do consider myself an optimist. Right now, I'm in the middle between yearning for the old garden and looking forward to the new experience. Great that your mom has adapted so well.

Jim! Thanks for your words. Yes, you're right, it should be semi wild, definitely, which appeals to us. I can visualize cascading roses, just a few to start out with. They'd have to be blackspot resistant. Good idea re the pots. Reminds me of what Kaye has done from Arkansas.

Hi Florence...well, it's really something how a garden brings out all sorts of emotions. We don't miss the house at all, just the garden! I hope it all turns out well for your daughter. Take care.

Dr. AP, I guess those people really could not let go! I don't see anything wrong with offering to provide information on a very large and well maintained garden, particularly if they intend to keep all or most of it and don't have a clue. I could handle it in a (seemingly) detached way I have no doubt about that at all.

Rosefolly, very true...we have also remodeled that house from top to bottom as well as much of the outdoors, so it's interesting to think of it that way. It's just hard to leave without sort of phasing it out so to speak. That's the difficulty, I think.

Patricia, there is a file of garden images that acts as my screensaver once the computer goes to sleep. I love looking at it! It's true, I had so many little "vignettes" or settings that I took pictures of. I'll have to do the same thing here with a vengeance!

lindyb, thanks for your kind words. Better and different, I suppose are the words to shoot for.

Rosefolly, thanks again! :)

kad2, exactly as I feel, but I'd be ok with returning, just for the opportunity of strolling in it one more time. I'll wait to see if they contact me now. If not, then I'll just console myself with frequent nursery visits, I think. :)

Pam, no, I want control over both gardens!! Haha, I'm only partially kidding. And you're right about the advice. I feel as if I'm the parent giving advice to someone watching my child, that's my analogy! Thanks for your kind words.

Wow, how lucky am I to have had all these wonderful, caring, insightful responses. Thank you so much. You've all really helped me look at this in different ways. Sigh...

Susan,
Laura makes a good point. You must begin now. Your creativity must be clawing to get out. Its gonna be real warm this weekend. A great time to dig out a new bed. You owe this much to yourself.

Susan, what wonderful memories you have of your beautiful garden! I'll bet you can close your eyes and walk all the way through it, naming each rose and plant. The garden will change with the new owners, but your memories won't. And now you have the adventure of a new garden. I've been working for the past 9 years or so to develop a public botanic garden in our region and one thing I always share with supporters is that individual gardens will come and go as ownership changes, but a public garden brings constancy. Jim East Coast talks about how much he enjoys volunteering in his public garden - part of the joy is that it will be there for the long term. So build your new garden, and support the public garden of your area as well, so there will always be some kind of constancy. Enjoy that new garden!

Susan,
You will be starting a new garden this Spring, yes? Do you have your selections all picked out yet, or do you need suggestions? *grin*

Paul

Harry, great idea in theory, especially since all the kids are coming out this weekend to visit, but somehow I think that would be last on their list! And, yes, I will be looking at that hill just behind the house, waiting for inspiration and a vision. Although the hill faces south, there are many trees around, and when I do it, I want to do it right. I know I'll end up with a shady hosta garden! Cross your fingers that I get sun in some spots.

karenforroses, You know, the memories are more about my husband and I doing our separate things in the garden while the radio is on, and you all know, talking about this one and that one as if they were our kids! It's the garden routines that I remember fondly. I guess we'll get a new routine. It'll be interesting. The backyard is tiny and then there's a big hill (our property) behind. At the top of the hill are distant waterviews, but I'm sure there are too many trees up there for roses. Thanks for your thoughts, karenforroses, they are very insightful.

Paul, OF COURSE I'll be starting a garden, she says with conviction! The truth is, I'm really nervous about the sun, and all the trees around the property. I'll wait till the leaves come out to see what's what. If I'm left with ferns, impatiens and hostas as choices, the house goes up for sale! So, no, I'm actually kind of afraid to get all excited about which roses I want right now until the trees leaf out. I'm busy with my work, so I can defer plans for specific sites and specific roses for 6 weeks.

I want a different garden this time. I want one where roses seem to be a natural part of the landscape. This hill's potential better not disappoint me. It's a great hill. Last time, I was interested in mass planting and often planted 3 roses together, but I don't think I'll do much of that this time.

Let me ask this...if there is too much shade on the hill, it was mentioned to me that if I planted some once bloomers on the hill, that they would get sun nearly up until the time (well about a month) prior to their blooming. Could that work?

Could we possibly enable Susan? All she has to do is look at the pictures of her last masterpiece. Even Patrick, the most evil of all enablers, could not top that?

Bad Harry! Actually, I wrote "Screw it...I'm going to order some" and then I remembered that we brought 7 roses with us, so that's a good start, and I deleted those words!

But, nope, I'm going to be responsible and wait for that sun to shine on my hill after the leaves come out and if I have to have a gas powered chainsaw in one hand as I'm looking for sun, well, that may be an option.

Susan, is your shade from deciduous trees, from shrubbery, from buildings, etc? If your shade is coming from deciduous trees, then once bloomers will work wonderfully because they will get plenty of sunlight when the trees have defoliated and will bloom about the same time as the trees begin to put on their new spring clothing. Even if you love the repeat bloomers, they can too be treated the same in the situation if you don't mind that you will only get to see Lemon Spice bloom in spring instead of all-season-round.

Patricia, I actually think that this hill may lend itself to the big shows of once bloomers. I'm thinking of one of those violet colored roses, is it Violette or I know there is another name that escapes me. I feel I may need mostly antiques on the hill. Blackspot resistance this time around will be much higher on the list for me, so that may lead me more in direction toward antiques, not sure. Have to do research!

Patricia, sorry, you asked me a question. If there's shade, it would probably be from trees (not going up the hill-they must have removed them- but in the immediate surrounding area including on top of the hill, tons there) and also possibly from the house because the yard area is so tiny there's not a lot of space between the house (which is L shaped) and the hill!. Plus, the house next door is huge, so don't know if that will be a factor either.

Susan, you might want to do what I did. I lived here a year and watched the sun before I planted anything major.

I wanted to watch it rise and set once a week and I documented it. Something to bear in mind, the west side of your house (believe it or not), the side on which the sun sets is coldest in winter because the sun sets there so early and has not had time to warm the earth. A piece of worthless trivia I picked up along the way. :-)

Hugs to you. Just watch the sun and shade for a while before deciding.

Solution for now is get pots and buy some roses. That way you can move them around and enjoy some roses this year. Just think of some of your wonderful Austins wafting fragrance through your yard or patio, etc.

Carla

Patricia, OK, that's good to hear because that's my instinct...to see where the sun lands on the property. Thanks for reconfirming that for me.

Carla...don't tempt me!! Sheesh, I know you'd have me just go on a buying spree, listen to you! ;)

It's a little early for this, but I'd recommend visiting some gardens with woodlands. Wave Hill, Stonecrop, Winterthur - just to get some ideas of what is possible. A lot of them have impressive bulb displays. I also hear Rick Darke is one of the speakers at the Philly Flower Show.

When I was a kid one of our regular 'playgrounds' was the woods. It can be beautiful, but it is what it is. My fear from listening to all of this is that there is going to be a wall of roses erected on that hill, blocking out the possibilities that exist further up, under the trees.

Well, just look at how beautiful George's garden is.

mad gallica, that's a great idea. Also, I think there's a hill at the Brooklyn Botanical Garden if I remember, with roses. But, I only want some roses on it. No, no big wall of roses, I really don't want it to look like a "rose garden" on a hill, more, like the roses just grew there on their own.

Patricia, you read my mind. I was already thinking of his garden!

Susan,

I can't believe I'm writing this but...

STOP!

Don't buy any roses until you've judged the light requirements. Susan, I made a terrible decision when I bought my current home. The house was (is) cute-cute-cute, a classic gray cape cod with a wood burning fireplace and nestled into a wooded corner lot. Neighbors call it "the hollow" because the land slops downward from the curb. There is a definite storybook quality to the property but THE TREES! OMG!!! Big, cathedral trees that deeply shade almost my entire yard. I've had one removed but Rob keeps fighting me on the remaining two because of the expense. Here in the Washington DC Metro area it can cost 3 thousand dollars to remove a large tree.

So I'm stuck. All my brightly lit areas are crammed full of roses but the rest is all shade plants - which I hate.

Please wait. Judge the light and be honest with yourself. Don't waste your $$$ on roses that will just die anyway. If the trees prove to be too shady (I have a bad feeling about this) then remove them first BEFORE you plant the roses.

BTW, I've seen some simply stunning city gardens. For example, there is a lovely Georgian townhouse in Chevy Chase MD located just down the street from the historic Uptown movie theater. The garden is tiny so the owners planted climbing roses that scale two sides of the building. The front facade has a balcony on the third floor that is completely framed by velvety red roses. The effect is like a bower of beauty. The front yard has Rosa rugosa alba, effectively used as a security hedge with pretty little groups of pansies and miniature roses. Again, this yard is tiny but every bit of space is so carefully planted that it doesn't feel the least bit cluttered. So yes, a small rose garden can be done in the city.

Lastly, I do agree that you need to let go of the old property. I know you loved it but it is gone. Promise me you will not visit it again and stop all communication with the new owners. Just let it go.

Oh, and be prepared to cut down some trees.

Patrick

Susan, just a thought ;o)
I planted Tausendschoen (sp) and Ghislaine de Feligonde together without thinking. They were under a self sown tulip tree. Both are LARGE shrubs (think giant lilac), thornless or almost, and NO BLACKSPOT. They are primarily spring bloomers but both have scattered blossoms throughout the year. The light pink clusters intermixed with the apricot clusters looked absolutely DIVINE. I didn't plan it but I intend to repeat it in NY!. They did well under the tree and essentially no care. Look them up on HMFR.
You can take cuttings from my plants.
Jim

Susan Wave Hill is near enough and has a lot of terraced gardening going on, Brooklyn Botanical Gardens has a magnificent Rose Hill

Susan,

Which seven did you rescue from your former residence?

You created a lovely garden that was perfect for it's site at your former home. I have no doubt that you will do the same in your new home, Susan. Don't go back, I did that and it just made me sad.

Carol

Patrick, SUPERB idea re having roses on the sides! Who is it that has that huge side of the house with a big metal framework for climbing roses? Someone in Texas, the midwest? I can see it. Was it nearlywild? Not sure. That's a great option, thank you!!!

And, you're right. The last thing I want is to plant something somewhere and be in denial that it will be "ok." There is no substitute for sun, so I hear you. I'm ignoring your comment on going back if called, but I know you're right. Waaaaaaaa!

Jim, very glad to hear that report for those roses! I think it will be a challenge to get truly blackspot resistant roses, but coming from a heavy blackspot area like you're at now, they sound like good candidates.

Joe, thanks, I think I definitely need to go there!

Harry, yeah, it was very strange which ones we chose, it was partially random due to extreme moving pressures. We took:

Cape Cod (a Poulson rose) because we've vacationed in Cape Cod for 15 years
2 Frances Dubreuil
Bolero
Evelyn
and I can't remember the other 1 or 2!
Oh man, the money that we left behind in all those roses, yikes! No, I can't go there.

Carol, well, I'll tell you, this thread has been wonderful because I've received such good ideas, things that I had not thought of before, so it has definitely made me more hopeful than sad. But, the true excitement of strolling through this big garden in the months before the flush to see the progress. What a rush! What anticipation, overseeing a larger garden. I can't promise I won't go back. I know I will if they ask me, but I will not contact them again. One offer was enough.

Now, to wait till mid April and see the leaves/sun path.

For ideas about growing roses with trees, you can also look at A Woodland Rose Garden (Kent Krugh's lovely garden). He lists roses that do well in shade. He says his favorite gardening tool is a chain saw, to cut down some of the many trees and shrubs in his southwestern Ohio property. I've been to his garden - he has many roses doing well, and others that are just surviving, but he enjoys trying things out. He also has wonderful woody and native plants. Other than getting LOTS of chigger and mosquito bites when I last visited, it was paradise.

He no longer maintains this website, and has moved into other areas of interest, but still grows roses. I imagine he would have different things to say about some of the roses now.
Anita

Here is a link that might be useful: A Woodland Rose Garden

tivoli rose,

I think I may be experinecing some of what you are feeling, although our house has not sold yet. (It's only been listed a couple of months). Although my husband and I really, really, like our house, we decided to try to sell it, as we have wanted to live out in the country again for quite some time. We live in a nice developed community, but after 12 years we still can't get used to the lack of privacy in the yard and lack of acreage. I also absolutely NEED more land, and HAVE to have it, in order to grow whatever I please, and with as much space as that takes.

Interestingly enough, I can let go of my house, because I can build an "improved" version of the one I have.

The thing that makes me crazy is every time I go outside, I know I will have such a hard time leaving plants and roses behind that I have nurtered and watch grow. A house is an inert thing. Plants are living creatures. I have gone through so much of the "let's take it off the market", to the "let's definitely leave it for sale". I think it must be a normal process to go through, unfortunately!

My solution in the letting go process is to order lots of pretty roses, and pot them up, all ready to go when the time comes. I am also going to propagate the ones I have. I think I am starting to get the rooting thing down, but I will have to learn how to graft too. I know that Marechal Niel does better grafted, and poorly on his own roots, in Florida. On fortuniana he is a magnificent house eater.

I think you need to get yourself some roses that you love, and grow them potted for awhile while you watch the sun/shade patterns on your new property. In the meantime, you will have something you love, and if you don't have enough sunny areas in the ground for them, then either move them around to follow the sun, or keep them potted up on a big patio area.

If we do sell, I don't think I will even consider checking up on this place. I hear people usually rip out gardens and put sod in. That's their right. That's what they payed the big bucks for...to do what they want. I just don't want to see it.

Buy some plants, root some cuttings, and take some pictures of your property and house. It's amazing how much easier it is to lay a garden out when you can look at an objective printed version of it all.

Sandy

Susan----I have some beautiful roses and my yard has a lot of shade-----

Hybrid Musks do well and I agree about the once-bloomers---

Just last year we lost two big trees ---now I could grow roses in my front yard but my digging days are over----

I'm excited to see what you will be doing with this new area..

How nice to have a view of the water-

Please keep us posted wirh lots of pictures.

Florence

Wow, Susan, I did not know that you moved either. I just can not immagine leaving that absolutely stunning garden of yours behind.

Susan will make a new stunning garden, probably better than the old one.