Mark,

I am starting most of my perennials from seeds too, and have already sown them using the Winter Sowing method. If you click the link below, it will explain how it works. If you are starting them indoors, it probably IS a bit too early, but WS is done outdoors, and the seeds will germinate at the appropriate time. For more information, check out the Winter Sowing Forum on GardenWeb and click on the FAQ's.

As far as the purple coneflower (echinacea) is concerned, I have several different types, and all of mine began blooming at the end of June, in my zone 5, and bloomed until the first frost. I certainly would not consider them a "fall" bloomer.

Other long blooming perennials in my garden include Coreopsis (I have several different ones), Gaillardia (Blanketflower), and Achillea (Yarrow).

Wishing you much success with your garden,
Bonnie

Here is a link that might be useful: How to Winter Sow

I second the winter-sowing suggestion - strongly! That is the only way I start seeds. Do check out the winter sowing forum for help. It's a great, inexpensive way to expand your garden.

Best of luck!
Dee

I can only ditto what has already been suggested to you. WSing is the way to go. I was rather sceptical when I embarked on my first WSing experience last year, but boy was I rewarded! I was having a hard time keeping up with all the seedlings I got and ended up actually having to discard some (just not enough ready-dug gardening space.

Try it out - you will become addicted, I promise you!

Marianne

Let's hear it for Wintersowing! It's the best way to go.

Thanks very much for the information. I've printed it out and I'll read it carefully. I never knew you could sow in winter ... i'm amazed!

Just a little more information Mark. The writer of the link provided by Bonnie has created a site wintersown.org with lots more information and examples of other growers' experiences. You can also request a selection of seeds for Newbies.

I can only repeat what others have said to you about starting by winter sowing. Gardening doesn't have to be an expensive venture. The following used to be just weeds and what some folks call 'lawn' about 5 years ago. All plants in this picture were winter sown. Have fun!!

{{gwi:194714}}

Great advice.

Does anyone have any advice for the type of perennial I should plant. I've been gardening for two years and I have learned a lot, and like black eyed susans and purple cone flowers as they fill a lot of space and are thick strong plants. Can I plant these seeds using the winter method?

One more question. what kind of soil do I use ... the soiless mixtures usually used to start seeds ... or ordinary garden soil ... I had some soil/compost delievered last fall.

BTW, I'm amazed and delighted to find that so many people responded ... it's an excellent way to get some knowledge.

Mark

Ditto on the wintersowing! Tiffy has many, many more gardens full of wintersown plants - that was just a little "peek"...

Carrie

Coneflowers do great winter sowing, black eyed susans do also, although the ones I grew didn't require cold treatment. You are aware that the cone flowers may not bloom their first year, aren't you. I have lots of favorite perennials, balloon flowers are one of them. Fairly delicate plants, they often bloom their first year & will bloom off & on all summer long. Baptisia is a lovely spring blooming plant that has interest all year long with its seed pods. Easy by winter sowing, but it is often 3 years before it blooms from seed. Dianthus is easy, and the perennial variety has pretty blue foliage that looks good at the base of taller plants. Penstemons, especially Mexicali Red Rocks, are great, perennial salvias too. I've used bagged garden soil & done fine, & regular potting soils. Personally I avoid the soil less mixtures. Seems like they get too dry for my liking. Most people prefer the Miracle Grow & a couple other brand names. Avoid Hyponex at all costs! It comes pre-seeded with weeds.

I put my seed trays outside on the porch from January to early March and then bring them indoors to sprout. It's an old habit from when my garden was in zone 5. But however you want to do it, here's a list of perennials (or, in some cases, biennials) that are easy to grow from seed:

campanula - all kinds

rose campion, echinacea, rudbeckia - but these also readily self-sow in the garden.

delphiniums - all kinds
columbines
digitalis - all kinds
lychnis - all kinds
shasta daisies
liatris
polemonium
anchusa
linum
amsonia - all kinds
echinops
geum
lespedeza
platycodon
baptisia

The thing is, that not many named cultivars come true from seed. You can purchase seed of some species that should come true - this seems to work with columbines and digitalis, for instance, which come in many colors and sizes. But I don't think you'd likely be able to get a 'Caramel' heuchera from seed.

You can use pretty much any light potting soil, but there are soils made specifically for starting seeds that lots of people like. I usually move the small seedlings out of the plug trays into small pots and then I mix compost into the potting soil. Otherwise, you have to fertilize. Some people find it easier to fertilize.

Growing plants from seed is a great way to understand your plants better!

I'm going to be the one odd voice here I guess, but I love the whole indoor, under-lights, growing process. Through the years I have started hundreds of varieties from seed. If you're interested in this at all, I really don't recommend trying to grow with window light only. Usually it just isn't enough. Some people have success, but I've found at my latitude the sun just isn't intense enough.

Anyway, one thing you have to take into consideration is whether of not the plant you want to grow from seed needs a cold period in order to germinate. Some do, some don't, some need warmth followed by cold, with some it can be even more complicated. Another thing to take into consideration is how long each period needs to be for successful germination. I've found the following database really helpful in figuring this all out.

Good luck.

Kevin

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed germination

Hi Mark, I too am a big WS fan and have the following suggestions:
Soil: use any cheap potting soil as for houseplants, but not the kind with fertilizer added! That is typically too much for seedlings and just weakens them with all that nitrogen. I agree with others who say soilless mix is too light and doesn't hold water well.
Containers: Try all kind of recycled plastic milk jugs, those square ones that lettuce comes in, carryout, etc. Some you may find too shallow. I've had great success with ziplocs. My main advice is drainage! Not just slits in the plastic but narrow holes.
Don't worry about snow getting on them or in them, they will deal with it. My dad who is 72 I am proud to say is trying this for the first time with lavender, agastache and echinacea. He is very jazzed about it. He asked me if putting the baggies close to the house on the south side was a good idea and my view was that you don't want them to be warmer than the rest of the outside, and you want them to get rainwater so don't put them inside the dripline of a building.
Best of luck to you! Mary Beth

The only thing about sowing seeds indoors is you have to harden them off and adapt them to grow outdoors, where if you winter sow them, you do not have to adapt them, they're already outdoors!

I'm another advocate for winter sowing, it's the best way to go!

Ok ... so it seems that I can just throw the black eyed susan seeds into the ground in the spring. I was going to get some purple coneflower seeds, but I have a plant with the seed heads attached. Can I use these. When I crush it between my fingers all sorts of pieces come off ... I think these are seeds ... I guess I'm still learning the basics.

It's costing me a lot of money to keep buying perennials and I'm just looking for a better way to get a lot of plants without breaking the bank.

Mark

For me, purple coneflowers seed around quite readily all by themselves. Black eyed Susans do also.

I'm not sure I understand the bit about spending a lot of money on perennials. Around here, in the spring, most nurseries have small starts for small money. Those are the ones you go for - not the big pots for big money. They grow, and the next year some of them are already ready to be divided. There are also plant swaps. Check out the Pennsylvania forum for those.

Hi Mark! If you'll check the link below, there is a photo of the seeds on the purple coneflower (Echinacea). When I first collected seed from mine, I thought the seeds were the spikey part, but it's the part further inside the cone. If you sow the seeds outside in containers, then plant them in the garden later, you won't have to worry about the wind blowing your seeds away, or rain washing them away, or the birds eating them. You'll have better control of the germination process.

By the way, the seed racks are out at Lowe's and Walmart now. They even have some packets for as little as $ .10.

Happy sowing,
Bonnie

Here is a link that might be useful: Photos of seeds

I've tried some perennials from seed but I didn't use grow lights so the odds are hit and miss to get good plants, but have so so success with lupine, coneflower, columbine, however why not propagate perennials either by division or layering? It's easy and fun for the gardener. http://propagatingperennials.blogspot.com

Here is a link that might be useful: Propagating Perennials

Lot's of great advice from everyone, I'll just add that you may want to check out garden clubs in the area. They often have plant swaps and sales where you can pick up plants for extremely low prices.

All of the above is good advice. You asked specifically WHEN to start your seeds. This will vary with each plant. Seed packets will give this information. The easy and relatively standard ones usually say something like, sow seeds 8 weeks before last frost date. You find that date out from your local extension service (or a gardening friend), count back on your calendar for the 8 weeks, and that's when you sow them. If you're growing seeds inside, it's important not to plant them too early. Honestly, I believe that you want to keep them indoors for as short a period of time as possible, both for the health of the plants, and because of the mess, space, trouble, and time they take inside the house. You need to go to the WinterSowing forum and read all the FAQs. This will give you some good guidance. The one problem you MIGHT have is that you have almost waited too late. Many perennials need to have several weeks (or months) of exposure to cold temperatures before they will germinate. However, since you're just getting started, there are plenty of easy to grow ones that you can probably still have success with. Again, go to the WinterSowing forum. Good luck!

I do both wintersowing and indoor seeding. Wintersowing is the easiest, you get sturdy, hardened off plants. However, starting indoors under growlights does give them a headstart. My wintersown babies are very, very small when its time to plant in the garden bed. So, for some of the slower growing kinds I like to give them an early start indoors. That said, some definitely do better wintersown than indoor sown. I had no luck at all starting delphiniums indoors, but they are easy when W/S. The same holds true for some annuals: larkspur, clarkia and poppies were much better as far as germination, and legginess than the indoor started ones. Often, I'll take the tiniest wintersown seedlings and pot them up, then plant them into the beds in the fall. I, too, was skeptical about W/S, but I've been doing it for about 3 yrs now, and it does work out quite well. The only problem I've had is on an exceptionally warm spring day, it can get hot in those containers and fry the seedlings. I found that happened when I used those salad boxes as containers, and kept the lids closed. Now, I use empty water jugs and these seem to work much better.

I winter sow perennials every year and spring and summer sow up until July 1. You have plenty of time to get started.

I'm going to disagree about the cheap potting soil comment. Cheap potting soil can dry into bricks like cement and choke your spourts. Miracle Gro with fertilizer is fine for winter sowing and the fertilizer does not hurt the seedlings. Some folks like soiless mixes like pro-mix and others.

Go for it. You have plenty of time.

Thanks to everyone. So I have some seeds going on, I have some black eyed susans, some coneflowers ... I like these plants but need some variety I think. I really like a plant that I have already - can someone tell me how I attach a picture so that I can post it?

I don't know how to post a picture, but if you like the black eyed susans and purple cornflowers, as I do you need to also try some fanfare gaillardias and burgandy gaillardias. There is also a few white cornflowers that can be done by seed, White Swan and Baby white swan are a couple. Also you must try so Shasta daisies, Alaskan and crasy daisy are both great plants with your tow choice plants, Seeds car be found at Lowes or go over to the seed exchange list and post that your are looking for them.
Tammy

Our platycodon (balloon flower) self-sow all over the beds they are planted in, and I love them for it! You should try them out? You may be surprised how many volunteers you get the next season.

Same as highalttransplant....

I have wintersown all my perennials beginning in December thru January.
Here's my list of wintersown perennials that were successful using that method:
Echinacea purpurea
Echinacea angustifolia
Lavender 'Munstead'
Lavender 'Vera'
Salvia officinalis
Penstemon 'Husker's Red'
Gaillardia aristata (common species)
Gaillardia aristata 'Burgundy'
Linum perenne lewisii (Blue Flax)
Coreopsis 'Black Barlow'
Coreopsis 'Roman Bronze'
Shasta Daisy
Thymus serypllum
Thymus vulgaris 'German Winter'
Coreopsis lanceolata (bloom 1st yr)
Heliopsis helianthoides
Hollyhock
Monarda fistulosa
Nepeta mussinii
Agastache foeniculum (bloom 1st yr.)
Hyssopus officinalis (boom 1st yr.)
Blue Sea Holly
Digitalis ambigua (perennial...short lived depending)
Delphinium
Lemon Balm
Saponaria 'Flore Pleno' (bloom 1st yr)
Aster laevis (Smooth Blue Aster..bloom 1st yr)
Maltese Cross (bloom 1st yr)
Rose Campion (biennial)

The choices are endless....

Vera

Thanks to everyone .... I can't believe I got so many answers!