My idea of serious cleaning is every November to pull out all the plant pots and use a fine mesh net to drag in the deepest part along the bottom to remove any debris. Once the net comes up pretty clean, I'm done. I then trim the dead/dying leaves of the plants and sink the pots where the roots won't freeze. That it. My pond is 36" deep in the deep part and holds 1100 gallons.

You should not have to drain your pond to clean it.

You should not remove the fish or empty out the water. Just pull the plants out, and keep the leaves scooped out of the pond. Before I go any furthur ... How big is your pond? Joann

It's a 3' x 6' oval, 32" deep with vertical sides.

1. Fish in clean containers are fine, but don't leave them in too long without aeration or in too much heat. Learned that one the hard way.

2. Find out if you have chlorine or chloramines in your water. Chlorine will be gone in a day or two, chloramines don't go away and must be treated.

3. If the water is really dirty use half of that water in the tanks. Rapid change in quality as well as temp can have harmful side effects.

C&J - Yes, you do not have to remove them if its that size. Rock bottom maybe to get everything clean, but not for a yearly cleaning.

Note - Most people over clean their ponds. Don't get all of the carpet algae off, thats where all the good organisms live, you start your bio system all the way over when you do that. Don't use a power washer on liner, if it is at all strong you can damage it.

Steve, I think Kalevi and Cliff and Joanne have it about right. I see no need to empty a pond and do a thorough cleaning. Netting or vacuuming the junk off the bottom is really all you need to do. With a small pond like yours and the right net it shouldn't take more than half an hour.

I'm kind of curious where you got the notion that your pond needed a thorough scrubbing.

There really is no reason to empty your pond and thoroughly clean it out. Unless of course you plan to empty all the water out use your ex's toothbrush to clean the sides and bottom of the pond. I vacuum the bottom of mine each fall to remove gunk. I use a 10 gallon shop vac. works great.

Hey All,

Thanks for all the advice! I'll use the net idea and let it go at that. I'd use the shop vac, but between the trap door snails, the fresh water clams, the fish and the little tadpoles ... I might wind up regretting it. I don't know exactly what it's like to be sucked up by a shop vac and I'm not usually a betting man, but I bet it isn't a whole lot of fun!

;)

Steve

Steve, If you take all the rocks out of the pond it will be easier to keep clean. I mean all the small rocks that trap the fish waste. If you want rocks just put in a few rocks that are a good size. This way you will be able to
clean the pond without having to stress the fish by removing them.

To be more specific, remove all the rocks, vacuum the pond then add several big rocks for aesthetics.

We also do frequent water exchanges by running the hose in the pond almost everyday. Your pond is small, so I really can't give advise on small ponds. I can tell you though, that we exchange between 30 to 40% of the water each week.

All things being similar, we did the same thing in our indoor aquarium as far as water changes. We also don't have to add de-chlor in our area (lucky for us)

Also make sure you keep on top of netting all the leaves out of the pond in the fall, and use an air stone to keep
an opening in the ice in the winter for the gases to escape.
Bottom line, do not remove the fish.
Joann

Thanks Joann!

I actually don't keep rocks in the bottom of the pond, so not problems there. I haven't had a problem with keeping an opening in the ice in winter because I keep the water flowing into the urn that then spills into the pond and keeps the opening stable. I keep the pump under the waterfall and also divert some of the water from the pump directly up into the falls so that the water moves all winter long ... works like a charm.

Question: how do I find out if my water has chloramines?

Thanks again!

Steve

Sorry Steve, I don't how you find out, call the water company and ask them.
Well, that's good then that you don't have rocks on the bottom, as it will be easier to clean. A major clean-out and changing all the water in the pond, would not be beneficial to the fish.
Same thing in the Spring, don't aggressively clean the pond until the fish are lively and on their feed for a couple of weeks. The pond bottom is host to a lot of bad bacteria, that should not be stirred up in early spring when the fish are at their most venerable state after their long winters nap.
Where do you live on LI?
Joann

Thanks Joann! I'm in Huntington Station (western Suffolk county). I'll keep all of your great advice in mind.

I almost never used to feed my fish, until I started picking up slugs and throwing them in the pond each night when I put the dog out. They seem to love them and they've really grown! I have 3 small domestic koi, 3 shubunkins, a sarassa, about 2 dozen comets, a couple dozen bullfrog tadpoles, and a few toads/frogs. The fish have plenty of plants to nibble on and everyone seems pretty happy.

I'm going to build a little feeder pond this weekend that will flow and lightly waterfall into the main pond. That will hopefully provide a breeding area for the frogs/toads as it won't contain any fish. I'm hoping to soon lose my job as slug catcher. ;)

Thanks again! Steve

Uh-oh. A 3' by 6' oval that is 32 inches deep works out to a little less than 300 gallons. And you have 3 small domestic koi, 3 shubunkins, a sarassa, about 2 dozen comets, a couple dozen bullfrog tadpoles, and a few toads/frogs. If that isn't an over load now, it certainly will be when those fish grow up. That seems like way too many fish to me.

Time for a bigger pond? When those fish grow up you are going to need something three to five times the size of your current pond. Start digging.

I came up with 468 gallons.

In my original calculation I used a depth of 2.5 feet and got 300 gallons on the assumption that the pond wouldn't be 100% full. If it is totally full I get 320 gallons.

Imagine the oval being two semi-circular ends, with a diameter of three feet, and a rectangular center section three feet by three feet. The two semi-circular ends together make a full circle with a diameter of three feet.

The area of the 3x3 rectangle is nine square feet. 3 x 3 = 9

The circle has a radius of 1.5 feet. 1.5 x1.5 x3.14 = 7.06 square feet.

9 + 7.06 = 16.06 square feet total.

32 inches depth when filled to the absolute brim is 2.66 feet deep, so 16.06 square feet times 2.66 equals 42.7 cubic feet.

If my memory serves me one cubic foot of water is 7.5 gallons, so 42.7 cf times 7.5 is 320 gallons.

If you deduct some for not being brim full, and deduct some more for the volume of the plant pots, you end up right around 300 gallons.

300 gallons isn't near enough for three koi, without even looking at the other fifteen fish.

And I'm looking at the camera and my name is larryl and "I am smarter than a fifth grader." and even a professor!!LOL Now let's see some one argue with that one. And I agree that even if it was 468 gallons, that would still be too small for that many fish. Glenda

Larryl,
Where were you when I was building my pond and I needed help with calculating? You could have saved me a lot of time! LOL

Steve, I see a larger pond in your future :)
You either have to seriously give away lots of fish, including the koi or built a larger pond.
Goldfish multiply like crazy, and Koi need a lot of room.
Your pond is way to small for koi. Our koi maxed out at about 24 to 26" long. They have been that size for several years.

You'll have all winter to either do some arm chair planning, or look for someone to adopt some fish, come spring.
Best wishes.

Joann {{gwi:182972}}

Thanks for the advice everyone, but I'm not too worried. At least not yet. Reason being is that all of my fish, including the koi, are pretty small and have been small for a number of years now. Granted, the bigger guys have gotten bigger but we're still only talking 4". Besides this year's summer slug snacks, I only feed them about once a week and that's only a few flakes. I'd be curious to hear what folks have to say about domestic koi versus imported and rate of growth, etc. I'll post another message.

I think your small pond doesn't provide much natural food for all those fish. Starving the fish doesn't make it OK to overcrowd them.

Wow! Most people on here are pretty cool. I guess you're the exception, Larry. Get a life.

Really, I tried to be as kind as I could.

Ill have to agree with Larry on this one. It is true that fish will only get as big as their suprounds allow them.

Think brook trout in a mtn stream. You are going to catch a 5 lb er out of a trickle but you might catch a 6 incher.

now natural situations those fish can move up and down the stream to find more food and cover. The fact that your fish have only grown an inch or two tells me they are already way outgrown their surrounds.

My comets have gone from 3 inch to almost 7 inches in about 3 months. The 3 koi I got 2 months ago have already noticably grown.

Your over stocked. Thats why no growth.

I asked because I'm curious about the differences in growth habits between domestic koi and imported koi. I find it interesting.

If you provide your fish with a wide variety of plant material and you maintain a well-balanced eco-system then you're not abusing your fish by not feeding them fish food.

I would not expect to exist on plant material only even if I lived in a perfectly balanced eco-system and I would never expect my fish to do so either. I guess I have more feelings for my fish and animals than that. That is why I give them the best fish food I can find twice a day and they reward me by growing and getting more beautiful every day. And when they sense me coming up to the pond they swim frantically to greet me everytime. Do your fish do that?? Glenda

Having 3 small domestic koi, 3 shubunkins, a sarassa, about 2 dozen comets, a couple dozen bullfrog tadpoles, and a few toads/frogs in a 300 gallon plastic pond is about as far from a balanced ecosystem as you can get. If you are treating this as a balanced ecosystem your fish are suffering greatly.

After about 3 years, I have goldfish that were spawned in my pond that are 8" long. My pond is 1100 gallons, a 7' radius half circle. I feed at least once a day and sometimes up to 3 times a day. New ones born in spring are up to 3" by end of the first summer. By the end of the second, they are up to 6" long. The heron actually helps to control my population by taking a few of the really big ones each summer. I end up with about 8 fully grown ones each spring.

I read this entire thread yesterday. Last night when I was feeding my fish, (their second feeding of the day), I thought about this post and how sad I would be if my fish didn't get their 2 daily feedings. I compare it to the Chinese that wrap little girls feet so they don't grow, or milk fed veal in a small enclosure. My pond is overstocked and I plan to address it when the fish get larger.

The pond is 6' by 11' and 36 inches deep in the deepest part. I have 4 koi and about 7 gold/comets. The largest koi is about 5" long. When I got him in January of this year, he was about 2" long. I love watching him grow!

Besides their regular feedings, they get Honey Nut Cherrios as a treat, OFTEN!

It is my understanding that feeding your fish is not a necessity.....but one must make sure that the eco-system is right. I had for years,an 8 X10 pond, 3ft deep with 3-8 goldfish and had not feed them. They seemed to grow and multiply with good health. I have since upsized and still do not feed my fish.
I have a natural pond and have never had a problem with population overload due to the work of locals, known as toads, snakes and birds.
I don't feel I am cruel, just excepting of mother natures rules.

Most people choose to feed their fish in order to have a relationship with their fish. In a normally stocked pond it is necessary to feed the fish, because there isn't usually enough food to keep them healthy. Your pond has one goldfish per 200 gallons, which is way below normal stocking by most people's standards. At this stocking rate I think you are fine to not feed them. My choice would still be to feed them so they would follow me around the pond and act silly.

quote Laryl..."Having 3 small domestic koi, 3 shubunkins, a sarassa, about 2 dozen comets, a couple dozen bullfrog tadpoles, and a few toads/frogs in a 300 gallon plastic pond is about as far from a balanced ecosystem as you can get. If you are treating this as a balanced ecosystem your fish are suffering greatly"

why doesnt anyone suggest a much better filtration system in order to help with the overstocking problem? Remember.. you can never have too big of filter no matter what size the pond. I am currently filtering a 4'X 9' 400 gallon pond that is stocked with 15 4"-6" Koi while using a 55 gallon drum with 2 pcs of each of the 4 diferent grades of Matala media,12" thickness total of Matala, along with kaldnes moving bed media bubbling in the bottom of tank with mass airation.A 36W UV in line on return also. 900 gallons per hour turnover and crystal clear water with not a trace of amonia and 0 nitrite but cant seem to hold nitrate under 40ppm. I know I am overstocked but the kids love feding them and seeing the pond full. Hopefully this OVERSIZE filter will do the trick. I've heard great things about the kaldnes moving bed media..

Cleaning a pond is important and really should only be done if you know what your doing. I see plenty of pond guys lose fish every year while in 10 years I lost 0. To answer your chlorine in the water, its quite simple, all city water has chlorine. I even treat well water as cautiously. There are many lessons to be learned in cleaning a pond and yes doing it the half ass way by not removing the water, can save your fishs life but also wipe em all out if still done incorrectly. There are secrets Ive learned over the years thateach pond is different, all water conditions are different and all jobs need to be taken on as unique as they are. I get questions from ppl who have had it done by thier selves and by companys and they ask well shouldnt you keep all the water, or shouldnt you put 14 of thier home water back. The answer is no. When you built your pond was the fish there before you put new water in? NO. You can jump start the natural bacteria in a pond without sacrificing the water clarity. One other question I get, do i have to feed my fish all year. Unless you want a biological overload, the answer is no And again it brings us to a logical question no one thinks about. Who goes to the lake and feeds the fish? No one does they survive off plants and algae. These are 2 examples of a vast amount of information every fish owner and pond professional should know. Dont be too quick to start scrubing the sides with brushes.
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