My garden has roses both new and heirloom. I also have other cut flower plants, iris, glads, dahlias, etc.
While I do pay attention to color scheme, I try to plant a continuous blooming rose next to a perennial or rose which is a once bloomer.
You know those roses are the jewels of the garden.

Plan??? Plan???

Jeri Jennings

Funny, Jeri. :)

Probably everyone does it a little differently. I usually go by color, and I don't care (for now) if it's OGR or modern, though my newest acquisitions have been OGRs. I am at the stage that the roses are just now beginning to grow and fill out; when I have a better idea in my head of their mature size, I will fill in with companion plantings. That's probably NOT the way to do it! lol

I started with a blank slate except for the hardscape which was already in place, and various trees dotted around the property, only one of which had an impact on my garden design. The theme of my garden was clear to me at the outset, which was a Mediterranean cottage garden with (mostly) old roses. As far as colors were concerned, I wanted mixed colors with the exception of red and orange, which I don't care for. I discovered that tea roses, bourbons and Austins did well here and concentrated mostly on those. At that point it was mostly a matter of studying the different roses and choosing the ones I liked the most. I made mistakes, especially at the beginning, but I learned with every mistake and after I joined this forum the learning process became much easier and more enjoyable. Companion plants became important in my plan. The idea was just to create a harmonious, beautiful picture as a whole with interesting individual segments. Only time will tell whether or not I've succeeded.

No, Hollygarden, I think you're on-target.

Place your roses a bit further apart than you think you should, and fill in with companions as-needed, and you should do well.

Jeri

I've ended up with some rhododendron and azalea varieties I wish I didn't have because of simply buying what was available locally from a very limited selection. Live and learn! I plan ahead and avoid impulse buys unless it's something already on my list.

I make landscaping plans in my head, based on a narrowing of the choices with specific needs in mind for the site conditions and personal plant needs (like no-spray). I make these plans while showering, doing laundry, cooking supper, etc. Intersperced, I look up information in my rose books or online to check out whether a specific plant idea actually looks as if it might work. After awhile, if I keep returning to the same ideas, I try to get something written down, just so I don't forget the brilliant idea I just thought up... ;)

There was so much figuring to be done and so many plants involved this year for the front yard that I actually drew out little colored symbols with Photoshop and moved them around to represent roses, camellias and other existing plants (some of which needed to be moved) over a scale drawing of the whole area topped with another layer colored differently to show where lots more dirt was going to be added. For other areas of the yard, the plan is all in my head. (Hahaha...)

The advantage with Photoshop was that I looked at pictures of the desired plants and made their symbols the very same color as their bloom color (or close) and could easily make some of the known extra large ones (like Ghislaine De Feligonde) larger, to take up more of the area. I switched around the locations, colors, and names of plants a zillion times easily with the software and could tell at a glance what kind of balance was being planned for the plants. The disadvantage to using Photoshop is that I had no easy way to show three dimensions, as real landscape software can do. I can imagine it in three dimensions, though, so it works decently well. I suppose InDesign might work better, but I don't know that program well enough to get started on anything with a time constraint to it, which this project definitely did/does have.

Anyone else do landscape planning with a computer landscape program? If so, what software do you use and like? On a Mac, by any chance?

Best wishes,
Mary

randomly, hopefully, greedily, depends what seeds I have sown and what cuttings have survived. There is never a plan (apart from the wistful dream in my head....which does not match the chaotic reality).

Vettin,

It is hard for me to put my planning method into words. Yes, wandering around with an adult beverage and staring is a critical component. I find combinations of things I like and store the "success" knowledge. Its not a method as much as a result of my experience. Somehow, everything gets thrown into place and ends up looking OK a year or two later.

I tend to favor flower colors that are in the red/pink/purple/blue families. There must be a mixture of plant textures and forms. And lots of garden art including statues, rocks, pots, birdbaths and birdhouses.

We call it naturalized, informal, Bohemian cottage garden. Others just scratch their heads and wonder about me...

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I started by planting the most fragrant and rapid repeat bloomers close to the house. Planning disappeared after that. I buy the roses I like and then, like Harry, follow the wandering+staring with adult beverage technique. Jeri's advise, to give more room than you think you will need, should be taken absolutely seriously.

In my experience, all gardens of serious gardening addicts end up as naturalized Bohemian cottage gardens because there will always been just one more plant you can't live without that will break any plan.

At the beginning of a new bed, I try to think through what I'm doing. For my latest bed, I got pictures of the roses I planned to buy, glued them on different sized circles of paper that represented the mature size of the plant and played around with various placements based on size, color, fragrance, etc. I also got pictures of compantion plants to mix in. It was fun and I know what I'm going to do next week when I can get out and plant.

With currect beds, I follow Harry's example (although not always with an adult beverage--but maybe I should start doing that).

My older beds I started with roses and other shrubs to create the "bones" of the bed and have been filling in with companion plants as I find a spot that needs something.

I really try to avoid just buying something and then trying to find a place for it but that does happen. Sometimes the best place for something is where a poor performing plant is currently living.

I guess you could say my style is start with a plan and be ready to make adjustments (or improvements).

Harry and catsrose and I have the same method ... the staring and the beverages are the keys to our success.

Seriously, right now I am gardening with roses exclusively. I'm trying to follow the rules of size/texture/color/etc. used in perennial gardening ... but using only roses. I try to group my roses (sort of) into an area, and I play musical chairs with the pots until I'm satisfied with the result.

This means, of course, that I have never bought a rose with a specific spot in mind ... except some of the ramblers. I am always playing catch up, trying to find garden space for the roses that are trapped in pots. It's an inevitable situation for a collector like me. Roses come when roses are available, not when there's a plan for the roses. It's chaotic, but it works for me.

Connie

Well, being an engineer by profession I do things differently than the vast majority of the people here, I think.

I start off surveying my property and looking at where a bed or feature or room would fit into the "grand scheme" of things in my head. Then I take out a long tape measurer and measure out what I want, put stakes and strings around the area, etc. Sometimes I draw up plans on graph paper or architectural drawing paper if it is a major garden change. Dig up and amend the soil. I have a pretty good idea already if I need something big, tall, short, skinny, etc at this point for the space. I then narrow down what would fit in the space -- be it a rose, companion plant, other shrubs and short trees, etc. I usually start with structural elements first (such as a pillar, tree, etc.) and then finish with smaller companion plants and bulbs last. For colors, I tend to stick to colors that compliment old roses and find that everything blends together harmoniously (avoiding harsh yellows, oranges in the main garden areas).

This may sound nerdy, but the results are quite pleasing to me:
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When I started out I got out the graft paper (or planned to.) As I have mellowed I have turned into a plopper. Perhaps, I have always been one.

As long as it looks pleasing from our deck, I am happy. Too close and one may see JB sticks, BS, and other nasties.

It is almost time to prune. Me happy!

One thing about getting older, I hardly get any work out of the Troll anymore. Alas!

There is not much planning done with mine. I just plant the rose or the salvia or the clematis...(you get the idea) and if they grow well in that spot, they stay..if they don't do well, they move (if there is a vacant spot)I don't have a plan for the color...maybe that is why I have so many pink roses.

Lori_elf- Such beautiful pictures! I'd say your technique works very well.

Harryshoe- Also beautiful photos! I think your technique might be more fun :)

For me, I have a few roses from last year and a lot due to arrive this spring. With my zone 4, horses, kitties, deer, etc. it's a challenge to find plants that will do well and not make anyone sick...but I'm surprised by how many choices are still available.

I'm new to gardening, but have always liked home design, so I spend a lot of time going through graph paper and drawing things out by hand. First, I decide how I want to use the garden...is it for sitting and drinking tea, growing veggies, nice display around the house, potpourri, etc. Once I have a "plan" for the garden, it usually starts with old fashioned roses and lavender and progresses from there.

The fairy garden (which is this year's project) is for drinking tea (or punch) with the nieces, as well as a butterfly/bee area. I have Zephirine Drouhin over a little arbor with the tea table, some ferns and hydrangeas, columbine, pansies and sweet woodruff mixed in, as this is the shady side against the house. The rest of the garden gets more sun (as it's further from the house) and here I've used gallica roses that change color (very magical) and butterfly bushes, coneflowers, lavender, daisies, coral bells, violets and alyssum. I have blueberries along the back, to keep the deer away...so far that works :)

I don't have any pictures, but hope to have some this summer. Good thread!

What beautiful photos, thank you for sharing those!

One thing I noticed about really spectacular gardens is that their gardeners are unafraid of moving plants, even multiple times in search of the exact right spot.

Moving plants is almost my least favorite thing to do, but beauty isn't easy, right?

I started with a blank slate and a couple of fruit trees. First I designed beds and borders, then filled them with 100 bands of OGRs, all placed *far* from each other. Surprisingly, time has indicated that many of them were too *far* and need fillers between them. What a pity, but I was the girl for that job as you might imagine. We're now about 300 roses in, thousands of companion plantings, bulbs, shrubs, trees, etc. Last year I bought dozens of really small roses to begin to fill in spots. This year there are perhaps 12 or 14 spots for the 50+ roses in the pot ghetto. It's like having my own small nursery with the pot ghetto - I love to be able to go to my spreadsheets to see what's available in a particular color, size or shape that will fit into each special place. My daily walkabouts used to be with a beverage but since the cat has decided she prefers our walks draped around my shoulders, we walk 'dry.' Of course, you all are constant sources of inspiration for what happens in my garden and the credit for whatever beauty is there is shared with all of you.

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Seattlesuze- Your gardens are beautiful! What kind of roses are the pale pink rose and darker pink in the first picture? Is that the same rose in the second picture?

Also, I'd love to see a picture of you and your cat on one of your walks :)

lori elf,

Could you tell me please, what are the names of the roses
in your photo?

How do I plan my garden?

When I moved on to a property that already had 187 rosebushes planted in a formal rose garden, the problem was finding space for Old Garden Roses.
Now I'm using grid paper to plot out a new landscape, that is nearly blank, at a house that I hope will soon be mine (my bid was accepted over the weekend). I am thrilled to be able to plan a garden rather than living with plants that don't interest me.

I love white roses and so I plan to have 3-4 white 'Rose of York' to provide a windscreen on one side of the patio where the wind comes up over the Bay in the afternoon.
4 "Sombruiel" on two arches leading to the front door,, or perhaps a cl. "Shot Silk" Pernetiana on the arch closest to the door, for a bit of bright color.
-a low rose hedge along one sidewalk, planted with "Little White Pet" to form a sort of window across to my neighbors yard, with a sight-line to a rosebush there, and I'd put white " Cecille Brunner" on the ends of the L. W.P. row.
-I'm trying to decide whether to plant 3 Spray "Cecille Brunner" by the sidewalk alongside the street, for privacy. I saw this done in the front yard of Miriam Wilkins daughters property, and it was quite effective. The plants were on rootstock and rose from a narrow area at the bud-union which made a different sort of plant growth than an own-root plant would do. I might remove some the buds on the sidewalk-side of a grafted plant, to solve much of the need for boundary pruning.
-Or (advise wanted please) I might continue the white rose hedge, on that side too, with cl. "Mrs Herbert Stevens" that Luanne gave me (Thank you dear freind) that has a growth habit like a large Tea rose and is self-supporting.
Most of my roses will be Old Garden Tea roses, mingled with Noisettes and between beds of roses will be small squares ( c. 4 'X 4')of drought tolerant plants edged with red brick to replace most of the lawn that is there.
I have these in pots waiting to be planted:
"Souvenir de Pierre Notting" So far I wish I had bought "Etoille de Lyon" but my plant is still young so it is not fair to judge its blooms which are so plain they remind me of a Florabunda.
"Mrs. Dudley Cross"
"Mme. Berkeley"
"White Maman Cochet"
Noisette class:
"Catos' Cluster"
"Nastarana"
and I am thinking about getting "Clementina Carbonieri"
because I love cerise.
and planting cl. Cramoisi Sup. on the west side of the house or "Alistair Stella Gray"
-companion plants will be planted in rows, with a seperate drip-line to these planted in rows or small plots because these are drought tolerant plants in our cool microclimate which gets marine air-flow from the Pacific Ocean: Parma violets, Narcissi, Mother of Thyme, Snow in Summer (C. Tomentosa) Lavender, and then document how little I can water "Alba Semi-Plena" and a couple other species hybrids. I plan to follow Greggs method of watering in summer, for deeply mulched rosebeds, water only once a month but for several hours, which enables plant roots to grow longer to reach moist soil.
The back yard already has nice plants, fragrant jasmine, a Meyer Lemon, I would only plant 1 climbing rose there, and because it is cool and shaded on 3 sides, have my antique violet and Primrose collection there, so I can keep a close eye out for snails.

Luxrosa

Now I know what the problem was with my planning! I didn't have the adult beverage:))! Perhaps that's something to think about. However, I think my DH will put his foot down at me wandering around the garden with a bottle (or glass) of the same (since I hardly have any). He's going to be shocked enough to see the bills this year of all the roses I've ordered (I haven't even started on the clematis and other companions yet), this would be the last straw. So I have to be happy just gazing at pictures of the beautiful gardens pictured above and hope to get some inspiration from the same. Fantastic gardens, by the way, Harryshoe, Lori_elf and Seattlesuze. Thats exactly the kind of look I want, all flowing and blending beautifully, if you know what I mean. Thanks for sharing.

I'm still in the process of re-planning my garden, changing lots of things and moving heaps of plants around. Might post pics sometime at the end of the year if I'm happy with the results.
Sanju

Ooh, look, a spot (software engineer by training, project manager by trade...)! Plop!

I do it somewhat chaotic, since there always are new plants that I have never heard about before and which look just like something I absolutely must have. Then I also dislike to have empty spaces in my garden, so while I know that eventually space will be taken by the mature plant, I tend to plant companions for 2-3 years, which need to be moved to different spot at some point, etc. Also, if I buy plants which I haven't seen in person, there often are some shades to the color that I want to have in another place, etc.

I have a small yard and want to grow everything, roses, perennils, fruit trees, berries. So mostly it is Diana's method (Ooh, look, a spot, plop!)
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Olga

Olga, your method works very well! Gorgeous garden, although I'm surprised you had the strength of will to actually have some grass. What is the name of the beautiful climber in the third picture? I love the color.

Ingrid

Ingrid, thank you. This is Parade.
Olga

I usually start off a new bed with a general idea for the bed and a notion of the heights I want. Then I order roses according to what I desperately wish for and try to make them work in the new bed. Usually I have a few in the pot ghetto that need a home, too. I try to scatter roses so that once bloomers are not grouped together - I don't want a wall of green in September. I also try to vary color and put the most fragrant roses close to the paths so they can be enjoyed often. That doesn't always work though because I like a deep bowl effect with taller roses behind shorter ones. Since my sunny spots are filling up, these days I think about the spots I have and find roses that will work in them but I still wind up with a few roses that I just really want and must find a place to cram them in.
I have lots of perennials among my roses to compliment the roses, ensure continuous bloom, add variety, and sometimes to cover up naked canes. I'm usually more certain about where I want the roses, but many roses and nearly all the perennials are sited with the wander, plonk, drink, and gaze method that most everyone here uses. It seems our planning is almost as varied as our gardens.

I am a plant collector. So, I research varieties of a particular plant in which I'm interested (currently it is camellias). Then I order a mess of them (usually 50-100), and then I find a spot that seems to have the best conditions for the plant (not necesarilly for me). Then I plop it into the ground.

I don't coddle my plants, so I hope they do okay.

Robert

My method has been kind of a combination of plop and plan. My garden is quite small compared to what most of you describe. I have 25-30 roses and don't have one more square inch unless I give up seating space on the deck (there are already 8 roses in pots on the deck - the only sunny spot left). I went to pots when I ran out of ground. It's the rose greed thing.... I knew very little about gardening when we bought our house. I planted some vegetables, zinnias and cosmos by seed in the old swimming pool that had been filled in a number of years before we moved in. That area has long since been covered with a deck.

I wanted to get a better sense of the bones of the garden so at least ten years ago I made a plan using Adobe Illustrator on a Mac. I teach the software, so while it was a little tedious it was not a problem to use.

That plan has been very helpful when I'm planning big changes. Over the years some of the trees in my yard and my neighbor's yards have gotten a lot bigger - more shade and not enough sun for some of my original roses. Then I had a HUGE privet taken down so more room for roses. So they come and go.

In the midst of spring madness I do some planning - especially when I make a trip to Annie's Annuals. I know I won't get back there anytime soon. But I also succumb to impulse buying as well. Somehow I manage to squeeze in more plants even if they have to go under a rose in a pot...

Good thing there is also the need to fertilize and mulch. It keeps me out of trouble.

BettyN

"Randomly, hopefully, greedily" : I like that, Campanula.

I generally have a vague idea of what I want it to look like. Then I make a list of all the plants I want to squeeze into the space. I always want too many so I have to rearrange the furniture several times. It's always a pull between order and chaos. In the end it mostly works, though sometimes I have bare spots where plants didn't work out (or the gophers found them), and overcrowded areas where good sense lost out to enthusiasm.

Rosefolly

Luxrosa,
Hard to identify all the roses in my photos. In the second photo, the deep pink climber is 'Climbing American Beauty' and the white climber is 'Darlow's Enigma'.

In the first photo, the climber in the center wooden arbor is 'Debutante'. Hard to identify all the bushes in the photo. Light pink in foreground is probably 'Duchess de Montebello". Deep pink/crimson are 'Rosarie de la Hay', 'Maggie', 'Amanda Patenode'. To the right of the arbor is 'Mme Cornelisan'. Up the hill from that in deep crimson is 'Lover's Delite'.

I find a sunny spot.
Plan, with graph paper, how to completely enclose it, make garden "rooms", with paths and views. Then the roses that I want, I find a spot for them. How wide a rose gets is a big huge deal for me, cause usually in my garden it'll be right beside a walkway.
I don't group by color- if anything I group by opposite color. I don't want to see 2 pinks side by side, or 2 reds, etc.
There is one rose garden where red and pink aren't even allowed! I like apricots and yellows the best.

I have roughly three points of departure. I have the nature of a collector, so I have a lot of plants I want--roses, barberries, bulbs, clematis, aromatic plants, lilacs, peonies, box, shrubs and trees--as well as simply wanting a great variety of plants; and the garden design aims at finding places to put them where they'll grow well and look good. Then, I have my garden designer's nature, that wants to make a beautiful garden and looks for plants that will perform specific functions in the garden: screening; shade; an anchoring shrub or tree; a defining hedge; a protagonist plant; a middle-ground shrub; plants for interest during a particular season; plants for variety of texture and color. Actually, that's just plant selection. Planning a garden means considering paths, access for maintenance, places to sit, and places to do whatever it is you want to do in your garden: hold cookouts or picnics, have play space for the children or room for the dog to run, provide cooling shade for a hot summer or sunny places to enjoy during mild winter weather, grow vegetables or a small orchard or have a greenhouse for exotics. The third point of departure is the physical character of the garden site. How big is it; what is the soil like; when does it rain and snow and what water is available during the growing season; how much sun is there; what is the annual pattern of temperatures; where does the wind blow from and what kind of weather does it bring; where are the buildings, trees, rocks, and other large, striking, and more or less permanent features located; how is physical access to the garden; is it flat or steep? Oh, yes, and I forgot budget--how much money do you have to spend?--and legal considerations, such as, possibly, restrictions on fence and hedge heights and restrictions on land use.

So, I would say my working method looks a bit like this: I have plants I want to grow, and I can acquire those plants (that is, they're available and I can afford them) and I've decided that I probably can grow them in the conditions I have. I have a written or mental list of the plants I want. I study my site, looking at soil, shade and sun, drainage, position of buildings and trees; and thinking about how a plant of such and such dimensions will look here. Or I approach the problem from the opposite direction, that here is a spot that requires a plant or plants of such and such characteristics, and what is there on my plant list that will work? If there isn't anything, I look for a plant that will work and add it to the list, or I rethink the design. One of the drawbacks of paper plans is that gardens are three dimensional and paper is flat: this is something to keep in mind. Still, paper is useful if you can get a good scale drawing of your site. I've never learned to sketch so as to be able to create a picture of the resulting three-dimensional project I'm working out, and have to design from mental images.

I tend to plan only to the minimally necessary extent. When we were planning the central portion of the big garden, an area of perhaps a quarter of an acre, I got my husband, who was a surveyor in his youth, to draw a plan of the current garden, size and outline and main features. I drew in the principal paths/walks, all of them large enough to be in scale with the garden, to provide open space and vistas and to allow a tractor access to all the garden. I placed the trees, drew in shrubs (not specifying the kind of shrub), drew the smaller paths, and put notes about the kinds of plants I wanted in different zones of the garden, with the character of the plantings varying in the different zones: cold-hardy plants facing east, from where the cold weather comes; more tender plants facing west and south, and shielded by trees and shrubs from cold winds. This was enough for us to begin planting. Placing shrubs, herbaceous plants, bulbs, etc. together comes later: I work out small compositions if I have time and know my plants well enough; at the minimum I try to avoid gross aesthetic errors. One of my problems is that most of the plants I garden with are unfamiliar to me when I first get them, and it's just about impossible to get a garden plan right if you don't know how your plants are going to look and behave. I try to keep my errors on a small enough scale that I can correct them, at least.

I know I've written a lot; I hope some of this is useful.

Melissa

Melissa,

That was terrific! I think you've articulated what a lot of gardeners do but we don't always have "words" for that process. I have considered gardening as painting and sculpture in slow motion and it's a work that's never finished. Things change as the garden matures, sometimes in subtle ways and sometimes rather dramatically.

BettyN

Melissa- Great description of your planning process.

As I learn more about gardening, I find edible gardening very appealing, so I try to include more fruits, vegetables and herbs in the garden. Planning spaces and how they will be used is also important. The third thing is planning areas for flowers and shrubs especially for the birds, bees and other pollinators. Being in the country, I feel we have even more of a responsibility to make sure they have a safe haven. I try to make sure at least half of my roses have the big open stamens, specifically for the bumblebees :)