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Soil under decaying pine trees...

14 years ago

a few years ago I had several pine trees cut down, but the trees were not hauled away until recently. They had just been piled where they landed when they were chopped down. When we were dragging the timbers away, I noticed how BLACK and rich the soil looked. I was thinking of taking some of it to my garden, but my dad said the soil would be too acidic. Can someone please tell me if this is true? I can't stand the thought of that rich soil going to waste.

Comments (14)

  • 14 years ago

    Likely the soil is a bit acidic, but when mixed with lots of other soil, it shouldn't make your soil real acidic. I think I would sprinkle a little lime [not dolomite but all calcium] with the pine soil.

  • 14 years ago

    Thanks Wayne. So, other than being acidic, which i can fix easily enough, this soil should be nutrient rich & good for growing veggies in?

  • 14 years ago

    Well, it might be ...hopefully.

  • 14 years ago

    Many people think that because some conifers (pine trees to some) prefer growing in soils with lower pHs that those same conifers make soils acidic. Not necessarily true. Where I have put down pine bark or wood chips the soil has not gone more acidic. Where I have used pine needles as mulches the soil has not been maded more acidic.
    The only way to know what that soils pH is would be to have a good, reliable soil test done on it, although some old farmers would swear they could taste soil and tell you the pH.

  • 14 years ago

    Many people assume the soil is acid because they have had pine trees growing there, but it may not be. There are many other considerations. I would mix that soil with other OM, but not necessarily lime. Lime I have found is harmful to many plants. Not many plants like lime. All the plants in my garden do not like lime, expect the clematis, was supposed to, but lime made it worse. I have a cheap soil meter, I know it works, it says my soil is alkaline all the time. But, if I put it in compost it goes to acid. I would not want to spend money having a professional soil test. In spite of all the coffee and OM I add my soil is always alkaline it looks black, but is not acid. If I was to decide that it was acid out of blue and then add lime, I would get much worse results. Testing out is believing. If you want do a small test somewhere in the garden that does not matter before adding large amounts of lime to the garden all over.

  • 14 years ago

    Thanks everyone for all the helpful feedback! I'm really excited about the prospect of having that dark soil added to my garden!

  • 14 years ago

    Conifers growing on a soil for a long period of time tend to make the soil more acidic. Adding pine mulch to an alkaline soil doesn't necessarily have the same effect. It takes decades of constant additions of coniferous leaf litter to have that effect. And in highly alkaline soils there may be little effect even from centuries of coniferous forest growth. Much of California's forests are coniferous after all but the soil still isn't particularly acidic.

    This soil may or may not be a good addition to the veggie garden. It likely is somewhat acidic if the trees were very old, but adding it to more alkaline soil won't necessarily change the pH. Also the soil microbe community in soil growing pines will be different from what the veggie garden needs, so not much benefit there. Pines foster a largely fungal community while annual veggie plants want a bacterial community. But, if the pines had been growing undisturbed by raking for decades, then the soil should have a good amount of organic matter in it, although it will be pretty tough lignified stuff from pine needles, not very nutritious, but it will add water holding capacity and porosity.

    I don't think I'd bother hauling it elsewhere myself. But it won't make your veggie garden acidic.

    In San Francisco there is no reason to add lime to soil. Lime makes soil more alkaline and SF's soil is already plenty alkaline. I gardened there for decades and no one ever added lime. Not even to clematis. Now I garden in a very acidic area and every one adds lime at least every couple years. To everything except rhodies and blueberries, which like the natural acidity. Most plants do like lime when the soil conditions are such that they need the pH raised. No plant likes lime if the pH is already right or too high.

  • 14 years ago

    Where rainfall is heavy and the soils are not naturally calerous, soils tend to be somewhat acidic. Arkansas may tend to be that way...depending on the base soil.
    You cannot go on how California soils are as they tend to be more alkaline partly due to low rainfall that has not leached out the base minerals so much.

  • 14 years ago

    All I know is after 20 years of extreme coffee and wood composting my soil is never acid in San Francisco. I add Aluminium sulfate every three months and still my soil meter has never read that my soil is acid. What parts of the country do have acid soil? The northwest? I don't add too much Aluminium sulfate that would be harmful in itself to the plants. I would like to be able to make the soil acid for my acid loving plants, but I don't think it is even possible to do so.

  • 14 years ago

    "What parts of the country do have acid soil?"

    Much of the eastern and southeastern pars of the country have heavier rainfall and soils leached of lime.

    The western plains, basin states, and California tend to be alkailine and have to guard against alkali soils made worse by irrigation with saline irrigation waters and upward capillary action as soils dry out.

  • 14 years ago

    As far as I know, used coffee grounds are pretty much neutral and shouldn't affect ph either way.
    Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

  • 14 years ago

    Many conifers tend to grow in acidic soils, but they do not make the soils acidic. A study done by Dr. Abigail Maynard at the New Haven Agricuiltural Research Station, UCONN, did not find a significant change in soil pH after adding large quantities of pine needles to soil over many years. What causes soils to become acidic is a build up in free Hydrogen ions.
    Most every reliable study on coffee grounds I have seen indicates the pH of coffee grounds is in the 6.5 to 6.8 range.

  • 14 years ago

    It really does depend on how much runs water over the coffee grounds. If you use a small amount of coffee to a large amount of water the acid will be run off as coffee. But, Starbucks makes coffee so strong, it eats through plastic quickly, and burns your hands when you touch it. It can kill plants if you add it straight to the plant. I believe starbucks coffee is really acid, but however, it does not make my soil acid. But, it really breaks down the things you put in your pile fast.It just seems to eat up everything especially when you add some browns. I can see the differences in just a few hours after adding coffee. I don't really know if that coffee is acid or if there is something else in coffee that causes the burning and breaking down. If you store the coffee in a plastic bag, it will eat that down quickly and start leaking. Paper bags won't work. Those foil bean bags from starbucks will leak in a day or so. The coffee eats the tin foil. That is why I put it in the bin with the open bottom, so all the acid can drip to the bottom and be removed into the ground under the bin. You can store it on the ground without covering it. It will attract flies. It will mold in a few days if you don't use it. But, once it's composted it won't be acid anymore. Or else the acid part is just flushed away as it drips into the ground and the pile is watered.