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richdelmo

Another Winter Compost Question

19 years ago

I've been adding a 56 ounce container of kitchen greens including USGs in an 85% brown compost pile about twice weekly and turning the top as freeze/thaw allows. The pile is now frozen and totally unturnable (new word?) and with an artic forecast I expect this will be the case possibly until March.

My question is should I bother adding kitchen greens now or save them and add them when the pile again becomes moveable.

Comments (21)

  • 19 years ago

    Coffee grounds are a favorite starter green of mine, fresh cut grass being the other. Since they don't smell bad, I add them anytime.

    Saving up kitchen greens until you've got enough to get things cooking is something I do. I do not put smelly ingredients like fish or fruit/veggie wastes in the center of a pile untless the core is 100-130F. A compost therometer is a necessity.

    I also live in Zone6, and add scraps as the weather permits. Sometimes a piece of old carpet is placed on top of a pile to add a bit of insulation and absorb some moisture. I have seven mesh bin compost piles, and I try to keep one cooking at 100-120F in the winter.

    One method of saving smelly greens might be to keep 1 or more plastic containers outdoors. The cat litter containers might work since they are fairly airtight and don't cost anything.

  • 19 years ago

    Much better in the compost than somewhere else.
    If you cant get to your pile or don't wish to remove the cover during inclement weather, save it in a 5- gallon or larger container and dump it when the weather improves.

    If you can gather some soil, it could be used to keep down any odours that might come from such container----and a tight fitting lid will keep it safe.

  • 19 years ago

    jeannie, I can always get to the pile but I don't have a cover on it, should I?

  • 19 years ago

    Rich,
    A cover on the pile would have kept it from getting frozen if it was still active. Better yet, a layer of shredded leaves or such, about 6 inches, placed on top and then tarp or cardboard or carpet would keep everything all snuggled in there. (I have a tendency to stay away from the carpets since they may have chemicals in them, but that's simply my preference.)

    Robert,
    I do keep all my greens in those kitty litter buckets, but I place them inside in the basement so they don't freeze. With the lids, things don't smell at all. Good stuff!!

  • 19 years ago

    Why not add them know just in case it does get a little warmer, they will already be in the pile and ready to work when possible.

  • 19 years ago

    Your compost pile is frozen because there was too much moisture in it. The only thing that really freezes is water and too much water in a compost pile will, in areas of the world that get cold enough long enough, freeze and cause the other material to clumb into a solid. Unless you have a dry source of browns now starting a new compost pile with your high moisture kitchen scraps will only result in that one also freezing. Adding some soil, unless it has been stored inside and kept dry, will do nothing because, while my soil is not frozen it is quite moist and would if it was not covered with snow acting as an insulation blanket.
    At this time I would not concern myself with the freezing and just keep adding what I generated in the kitchen until warmer weather allowed me to do more. A cover on your compost pile would allow you to control the moisture level but would do nothing to retain heat in the pile except for that moisture control.

  • 19 years ago

    Okay, after reading your comments I decided to double check the condition of my pile. After further review its mostly the top portion that is frozen, so I pulled up large chunks of frozen matter, turned it over then broke up as much as I could. I covered it with several layers of newspaper then with a plastic tarp.

    My original question was whether or not to add kitchen scraps and it seems some do some don't, think I will.

  • 19 years ago

    I add my kitchen scraps in the winter. When I get a fairly decent layer, I add some stock piled leaves on top. All through winter I am building my green/brown layers so in spring I can start turning again.

  • 19 years ago

    Kimm, I'm amazed, your pile remains unfrozen as of today with temperatures constantly near zero fahrenheit. I suppose that's because you reside in SOUTHERN Michigan.
    Composts certainly don't need water having been added to freeze...their moisture in fruits and vegetables can hardly defend against it.
    And with the rain that we've had for the past couple of months, any pile that has its temperatures below that which encourages activeness in the pile, the moisture from that source does seem to follow the chemical reaction.....you know the one....water freezes at 32F.

    As far as covering a pile, I do it simply to try to keep out animals that would likely enjoy dinner in the bowels of the pile.
    But then I have holes around the pile's walls and easy entry points for mice, et al.
    But mostly, the cover keeps out the volumes of rain and snow-melt that could drown the pile.

    As far as frozen....my piles will stay frozen well into April at which time I do my good----better----best task.

  • 19 years ago

    Jeannie it is water that freezes and if plant tissues have little to no water they cannot freeze. The average temperature here is now 31 degrees and it has not been anywhere near zero farenheit, although it has been zero celsius many times. Since it has not been cold enough, long enough to slow the bacteria sufficiently the compost is not yet frozen. It has not yet been cold enough, long enough to freeze the soil here either. Now over east along the Lake Huron shoreline there is some indication that there is a bit of frost in the clay there, because the temperatues there too have almost been cold enough, long enough and a lack of snow cover is allowing this to happen.
    Contrary to what you seem to think soils do not freeze the minute a frost occurs.

  • 19 years ago

    Frrost.....Kimm, you consider what we are presently experieicning.....frost?

    I'd like to know your interpretation of the word "freezing cold"....with temperatures quite well below that which freezes a lake---which I live on and which now has more than 100 fish huts sitting on.

    I'm of the opinion as well that Michigan Lakes are much the same. Kimm, why don't you go for a walk....you should get out more, the temperature beside your furnace may well be 31F but the outside world has a different look on it.

    To say that a pile of soil, having been fed what composts are fed, cant freeze unless its been given water...(but then aren't pile encouraged to be watered))....but let hat go...that's just downright plain silly.
    That kind of advice should be looked at with compassion by anyone reading it......then forgotten.

  • 19 years ago

    It's to hit 50 degrees here today, so I'm taking advantage of the warmth and turning my pile. I'm taking a breather right now, then headed back out.

    So many beautiful earthworms!!! If my neighbor doesn't already think I'm completely batty, she does now when she heard me saying "Hi worms, hello my worm friends."

    That's the only critters I'm seeing, but there are many.

  • 19 years ago

    Speaking of frozen piles, the first year I forced dutch bulbs I buried them in my compost for the 13 weeks cooling period. When the 13 weeks, to a day, were up I went racing out to my compost to dig them out but the pile was frozen. It took another couple of weeks before I was able to get them out of the pile and into the house.

  • 19 years ago

    We have had a couple "nice" days so I went out to check on the garden and tumbler. Mind you with my tumbler being above the ground and also not being a big volume it freezes fairly quick. Takes a bit for it to thaw out also. I have not been able to turn it for almost a month. We had a nice ice storm then a couple weeks later had a nice dumping of snow. But we have had freezing temps. Well today I went to dump some coffee grounds from Starbucks into it and found it wasn't frozen anymore. So I gave it a good crank to mix everything up. Then I popped the lids and seen a light mist coming up from it. I will have to take its temp tomorrow to see if it got a kick from the turning.
    While the cold temps have really slowed things down it has not stopped it. With all of the cold temps my soil has yet to freeze hard. I have stuck a shovel into it every so often to check on things.
    Sandy-in Frosty the snowmans home

  • 19 years ago

    Lake Michigan is no where near even having a film of ice on it yet and the inland lakes here are just beginning to freeze over, not even enough ice yet to venture out on.
    As I said jeannie the average temperature here has just dropped to 31 degrees, that means that at least a good portion of the time the temperature is above that level and a good portion of time the temperature is below that, about an equal amount of time. It has not been cold enough, long enough around here for much of anything to freeze. Many people noticed in December that their spring flowering bulbs were coming up, and Daffodils were in blossom in New York and the Cherry trees in Washington D. C. started to blossom.
    Other people that live in Ontario tell me that the weather they are having is quite different than what you are telling us, a warmer than normal winter except around Hudsons Bay.

  • 19 years ago

    My pile usually freezes pretty solid by this time of year. There is nothing you can do, as nearly all compost ingredients contain water. Heck, even my pile of dry shredded leaves is frozen.

    We were averaging temps in the 30s and 40s up until last week. But it doesn't take much time with days in the teens and 20s to freeze the ground and the compost piles.

    I just keep saving kitchen scraps and dumping them on top the pile. Every so often I add a layer of leaves from the nearby leaf pile if I can peel some off. There is not much composting going on now. My pile is in the shade, so it takes a while to thaw out in spring. Once it does, I turn it and add some leaves and get it sorted out.

  • 19 years ago

    My pile is about three months old, and haven't seen much sign of heat for about half that time, despite my best efforts (turning, peeing on it). I haven't added kitchen scraps for over a week and the weather was nice today, so I decided to start a new pile today before putting in any new scraps.

    Much to my surprise, there wasn't much sign of undigested scraps (a few, I set those aside for the new pile). But there was an active population of earthworms. Those little guys did the work of the microherd, it's as if I had a large outdoor worm bin!

  • 19 years ago

    Well I am impressed my twin tumbler. I dumped the right side yesterday and filled it with leaves and cross cut paper/cardboard. The left side yesterday was cooking at a nice and toasty 110. Yesterday was warm enough I could work with a heavy shirt on, if I stopped moving I got a chill but as long as I was moving I was ok. Today when I got up it was a toastly 11 degrees outside, now it has warmed up to 17!!!! I just checked the tumbler and the left side is up to 115 degrees. I am going to check it daily-I hope- to see how this holds. Oh this side has leaves, coffee grounds from Starbucks and some house waste. I wish I could use that heat for my greenhouse. Hum guess that would be a project to think about.
    Sandy

  • 19 years ago

    rich manure,
    I just toss all my wastes ( veggie scraps, bird cage cleanings, snake manure, hair clippings and the occasional bucket of urine) on top of my leaf pile. Wild birds pick through it for insects or worms and take the hair to line their nests. Layers build up naturally and when I start planting I just fork it through my chipper shredder. It looks like crumbled up German Chocolate Cake and that is what I sidedress my rows with.
    Been doing it for years and it seems to work.

  • 19 years ago

    And the heat keeps going. Today it is a toasty 40 degrees right now outside, someone said this morning when I got to work that they had 9 at their house. I just checked the tumbler and it is cooking away at a very toasty 125! It does amaze me how just throwing a handfull of this and that into a drum will cause such heat.
    Sandy

  • 19 years ago

    Yes it's water that freezes but veggies are mostly water! My pile is in a covered container. It's not a frozen giant ice cube, but the individual parts certainly are frozen, yup they are. They've been slowly working all this mild winter but the last arctic freeze has done them in.

    I don't know how hard rich works to keep his pile just right, but if he's as lazy as I am his pile isn't going to stay steaming whether he's got a cover or not.

    I've felt lucky this winter because I haven't done a thing to my pile except add my thrice-weekly big container o' kitchen scraps and some shredded junk mail, and no matter how much stuff I add it just doesn't really get any bigger. I had made plans about what to do with the extra once my smallish bin was full, but it looks like we'll not get there this winter.