What is the minimum temperature you are willing to let the greenhouse drop to? the garage?

I would like to keep the garage the same as the house. I do a lot of woodworking and would like it living temp (70).
The GH prob 50-60.
My total heating space is about 2500sq ft
Tom

I have a friend that has one of these but the last time that I posted you posted and said I was a fool so I doubt that you would be interested in my opinion of how it works so I will not comment on it.

gardenerwantabe,
please provide a link to the post of me calling you a fool.
I don't mean a remark about something being "foolish". I mean me ACTUALLY calling you a fool. In reference to a remark about something being foolish, it's meant in a way of being "wrong, silly, incorrect". And it usually follows "IMO". It is not intended to mean someone is a fool. I don't consider you a fool, never have. So don't be so sensitive. geeesh. Instead of feeling hurt and backing into a hole waiting for an opportunity to strike, like "I have some info you would like but you're not getting it 'cause you called me a fool & I don't want to play with you".
Why even remark on this post?.. unless it was your way of telling the world how hurt your were from an innocent little remark. If you were offended, why didn't you say so right away instead of packing up your marbles and going home. If you were hurt I'm sorry (truly, I am). I am not a mean spirited person, or a name caller. You have provided much useful information to a lot of people on this forum. and for that everyone is grateful. Harboring resentment isn't healthy.
I get so tired of having to choose words SO carefully so we don't offend someone. People are just too sensitive.
btw, I don't NEED you comments on this stove. I'm headed out tonight to look at one a guy in town here has.
So, thanks for turning this thread into something it wasn't.
You may now feel vindicated!

Tom

Tom,

Since you are already use to heating with wood have you considered an outside wood furnace? They can run from it to your house, garage and greenhouse so all three can be heated by the one unit.

MollyD

I considered one of those, but they all got bad reviews regarding the amount of smoke they produce. I certainly want to be considerate of my neighbors even though they aren't very close.
Tom

oregon_veg,

I am confused, mollyd suggested an "outside wood furnace" and you said "I considered one of those, but they all got bad reviews regarding the amount of smoke they produce"

Well isn't an outside wood furnace exactly the same thing as the indoor wood furnace you posted a link to?

A wood furnace is a wood furnace. The outdoor ones are just stuffed in a small metal shed from what I have researched.

The smoke problem is common to all large fuel capacity organic waste burning furnaces. They cannot easily be turned off or, on standby without causing inefficient combustion (smoke).

Your best bet is to couple an outdoor furnace (or indoor) to as large a heat sink as you can get. I am talking several thousand gallons of water in an insulated tank.

Then, run the furnace as hard as you can for a short time and heat up the water. Once a wood burner is up to temperature it runs (relativly) clean.

Wood burners produce smoke when they start up, and when they are on standby. Aim for one hot continuous burn a day for a couple of hours. Not filling the furnace with enough wood for 48hrs and then letting it start and stop as the heating demand dictates.

Hydronic heating is GREAT! it allows one to choose different fuels to heat the water but as the heating of the home, shop, garage, greenhouse is all done by water that gives you flexibility as to what fuel you use to heat the water. You don't need different heating appliences all over the buildings, they are fixed, just the fuel for the heatsink changes.

Chris, I understand what you are saying. You're right but to my understanding there is a difference. Some of them simply heat the water and then the water is pumped and radiated (sorta like a boiler system but wood instead of oil). Then there are forced air coil type that blow the air through the coils and into the building.
Some are built for outdoor and some for indoor. These two types are where the reviews are significantly different. This one I'm looking at is made to go inside the building. Others that are made to stay outdoors are the ones that I have seen negative reviews on. Lots of people complain about the smoke generated from them. This indoor one seems to come highly rated, not just by the company but by actual users. I'm not really too educated about why this is so. It seems the chimney systems are different maybe. I do know that the ones for inside MUST be EPA rated, so the standards must be higher thus a better burning stove?
I just think this would be an excellent way to heat three separate building with only one heat source. Not to mention the hot water system too.
I'm still trying to find someone who is heating multiple greenhouses with one of these bad boys to get an opinion.
I plan on building another GH this summer.

Tom

oregon_veg,

The problem with the indoor/outdoor furnaces is what happens when everything is warm enough.

The furnace shuts down.

It has to, it cannot continue to burn wood and produce (from your link) 100,000, 200,000 300,000 BTU/hour otherwise you are just wasting wood.

What happens when you need only 20,000 BTU/hour?

Not trying to shoot your plan down in flames, I have access to more dead trees than anyone should need in a lifetime, more corn that is unfit for use as cattle feed than you could imagine, and more veggie oil than is used to spray on young nubile bodies in the height of the sunbathing season in both the states of California and Florida combined.

The reports of smoke/pollution from outdoor wood burning furnaces may be due to the fact they are oversized for the area they are heating.

I really wish I could weld....

:)

Chris, I know you're correct, I am just still under the impression it is a very feasible, economical way to heat multiple structures. You're not shooting my plan down at all.
I have someone contacting me tomorrow regarding one of these.
Then I will get all the specifics.

Tom

oregon_veg,

I think yours is a great plan!

What I was trying to say was that if I had the money I would buy a wood/corn burning furnace in a heartbeat. The central boiler and water heating is the way to go if you have multiple structures to heat.

I have been trying to build something like that for years.

Feed us all the info when you get it!

Also ask them if they have an old one laying about that they need to get rid of, you know, one they can't sell because it is dented or the paint scraped. I will gladly take it off their hands for no charge and dispose of it.

:)

Chris,
Okay, the guy called me today from the company.
He did explain to me that they are NOT any thing close to
the outdoor wood stoves you see everywhere. Our mistake is in thinking it resembles a large wood stove. It's not.He gave me many technical explanations, but mostly, they have multiple chambers that exchange the heat. The exhaust is heated twice and exchanged in some kind of converter before it escapes. The stove does not shut down in the respect we would think (not just by depriving it of oxygen). It seems to be a very complicated process. He actually even told me, That if I bought this thing, He would guarantee it even smoked less than my indoor wood stove. I am traveling to Seattle for a few days and intend to stop by and get a complete demonstration. I'll post the results Monday if you're interested.

Tom

oregon_veg,

Ah!!!

It is a small version of a toxic waste incinerator!

High temperature combustion, re-cycling the flue gasses several times to achieve complete combustion. The result is CO2, water, and a very small amount of ash.

I bet when you go see one they talk about Refractory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractory

That is in the high temperature part and is important, (A basic refractory material is equal parts of portland cement, perlite and cat litter)

What their furnace does is a hot burn of the fuel so that the "smoke" is burned up too.

Sounds like a really good product, and when you feed it wood, which is not a toxic waste, then the resulting ash is environmentally clean!

When you go see one ask them about electricity. How much does it use/need. The furnace will use a set amount then they will say "depending on the installation and the distance... etc... the circulation pump(s) will use (insert a complicated formula) that we can calculate for you"

Chances are because using hydronic heating all you need is to circulate water, not pump it a long way at high pressure, the pumps will not use much power.

If you suffer from power outages then ask about all this. It is a key selling point for hydronic heating.

OK more on toxic waste... Clean burning of organic materials was developed to get rid of nasty stuff. Clean burning of not nasty organic materials is a bonus spin off.

Here is a link that might be useful: Clean burning of anything....

oregon_veg,

Hi! It is Monday....

How did it go?

We heat our house and greenhouse with a outside wood furnace it is a 4400 WoodMaster, As soon as we get the garage completed we will be heating that also, this stove will heat 5,000sq. ft. I have the thermostate in the greenhouse set on 60 and it is single walled. It was 8 below the other night and it was 55 in there. We keep the thermostate in the house on 72.
We have a generator if the power goes out.

Chris,
This thing is awesome. It hardly smokes at all, even when it shuts down to conserve wood. It's very sophisticated. The people are very nice and knowledgeable. It's not cheap, but after looking at the normal outdoor wood burners, it's close to the same price ($6900). The only drawback is setup. For one thing, it comes with like a 20 year warranty but you must pour a concrete pad for it. It weighs 2500 lbs. Also, if you aren't good mechanically, you have to hire a plumber and electrician to hook it up. It only uses 7 gallons of liquid. You can run all your buildings and heat all your water. While it's on heavy burn it utilizes all the energy it can. This thing really looks high tech. It might be a little intimidating for me to hook up. I'm a retired communications technician, not a plumber or electrician.
So, the next step is to find someone to just hand the plans over to and see if they want to tackle it. I'm actually planning on doing this in the fall. The wife gave me the go-ahead. :-).. Now, who can I hire?

Tom

oregon_veg,

Great news.

Plumbing is fun. The individual components you need are cheap. Practice first on short lengths of pipe.

As to electrical, HVAC circuit diagrams are like trying to read hyrogliphics ( That is the HVAC spelling of hieroglyphics by the way) If you ever worked in communications you can do it yourself. Get the wet stuff communicating with the wet stuff and get the electricity chatting to the electrical stuff. Try not to let the water talk to the electricity, (they argue...)

:)