Welcome! Be prepared to become addicted. This forum has lots of information. You will want to add your location information, usually the zone and the general area, so that folks here know something about the conditions you will be gardening in.

I'd start by getting plants locally as you will get the most bang for your buck. I get unusual things mail order, but my local nurseries have lots of great tried and true plants as well as some unusual ones. As a beginning gardener, I didn't in general need to mail order (which tends to get you smaller plants for more money due to shipping, etc.) When you do mail order, google "garden watchdog" and put in the name of the nursery you are considering. You'll find other gardener's views on the nursery in question.

The key to a good garden is good soil. Start a compost pile with your grass clippings and autumn leaves (there's a GW forum for that) and put the results on your gardens. Or if your town has a composting program, get compost from them. Another source for good organic additions to a garden is composted manure if there are any farms in your area.

Other resources for information besides the www (and you can visit the GW forum that's most local for you) include your local library and any local garden clubs or organizations such as public gardens or arboretums. My town has a spring-time plant swap where anyone who wants to shows up with plants (new gardeners don't need to bring anything) and everyone goes home with some new plants. Find neighborhoods where the gardens appeal to you, park your car and just walk around. You'll get a feel for what you like and don't like and get ideas you can try out.

I know when I started out, I killed lots of plants, and I still do - not everything will be happy where you plant it, or some critter will like it a bit too much. That's part of the learning curve.

All i can add is you need to know how much sun your yard gets, what portions get shade and for how long it is shaded. If you live really close to water, or have clay soil, things like that can greatly affect what you can grow. Forget white flower farm, everything on there is nearly 3x the price you can find somewhere else. I agree that you should shop locally first, their plants are most acclimated to your climate and are likely hardy unless listed as annual (but even some annuals are more like perennials from self sowing)
A list of plants that tend to take care of themselves in my experience....
Cone flowers
Daffodils
Hemerocallis (daylilies)
Hardy hibiscus
Rose of Sharon

On that list if you have intense sun and dry periods, i strongly recommend coneflowers. Daylilies will probably thrive anywhere as well, and multiply like mad.

Great advice above.

Re plant swap.

Advice I heard was go to local garden club sales, but remember that you're going to see two kinds of perennial there: hardy reliable plants that have stood the test of time and invasives.

Have also seen invasives (crown vetch, goutweed, etc.) for sale in garden centres, etc, with absolutely no warning.

Good suggestions so far that I'll second from experience. Healthy soil + good drainage + sufficient sun/light will generally equate to successful garden beds but doing your homework will be equally important. You won't regret doing a shade study--create a grid or jot down where on your property there's full sun/part-sun/shade/part-shade at hourly intervals from early morning to sundown on the summer solstice (generally June 21). That information will help you plant things where they'll get the optimum number of hours of sufficient light to allow them to grow/bloom to their full potential.

It doesn't hurt to consider your garden goals. Over and above "curb appeal," mine was to attract/feed/sustain indiginous birds, butterflies and bees along with other pollenaters. With that in mind, I designed (on paper) the beds I eventually planted with things I either grew from seed via winter sowing or else purchased bare-root or from local nurseries. I purchased dozens of perennials via the web, primarily from Bluestone Perennials or Santa Rosa Gardens, both of which were/are highly rated mail-order sources on The Garden Watchdog forum. In my experience, both SRG & BP stand behind & guarantee their plants which are vastly more reasonably priced than White Flower Farm (although WFF does post detailed growing/maintenance information on their website).

I'll second SunnyBorders' advice to beware of invasives. Often they are touted as reliable reseeders that you'll regret planting within a year or two. Before planting, it's a good idea to check your state/regional invasive plant listing. As an example, butterfly bush/Buddleia is listed as invasive in Pennsylvania but not here in Connecticut. That surprised me given the fact both states are generally located in Zone 6.

nhbabs' comment "The key to a good garden is good soil" is absolutely true. Where I live, my parents practiced organic gardening for 50 years so no matter where I dig the soil is amazing & there are fat, healthy earthworms.

One final suggestion--do your homework ahead of time to avoid mistakes/pitfalls/
problems. Learning the botanical names for plants will help you steer clear of many invasives/undesirables. Although not invasive, coneflowers mentioned above fall under the heading of Echinacea but there are quite literally dozens of cultivars available over and above the species E. purpurea. Just be aware that common names can be misleading.

The biggest mistake that I made when I started out was ignoring the full sun, part sun, part shade thing and plunking my plants in soil that I knew nothing about. Thinking, I want it here, so I'll try it here. Kiss of death. The suggestions on planting in what type of soil, where, how or if to cut back or trim, whether it will tolerate transplant, etc. is there for a reason. Listen to it! I know it's annoying, but test your soil! You can take samples to your local exchange office and they will tell you what amendments you need so that you won't kill stuff! It won't be as bad as you think, correcting your soil and it won't delay your gardening efforts much, if at all. These are all newbie thoughts that I know I had. Stack the deck in your favor instead of against you by doing these things and it will be easier than it has been so far. Welcome to the addiction that will soon follow!

i started.. by buying small plants ... of what the local nurseries sold..

they have a vested interest in selling what will grow in your area ...

and i am NOT talking about bigboxstore .. i mean the local peeps ... who know their plants ....

then plant them in a small 10 by 10 foot bed.. and then.. i late summer.. start making the next bed.. and in fall.. move out some of those that prospered.. learning about spacing ...

and then next spring.. go buy some more ... etc..

it is all about 'collecting' ...

and find the winter sowing forum .. and learn how to grow some next fall/winter.. for the cost of a seed pack ...

or try some indoors in very late winter ...

and frankly.. if you can find a local garden club ... join it.. they share plants and knowledge.. freely ... and you get to see some local gardens ... and that amounts to turning off the computer.. and visiting local gardens ...

good luck.. and have fun.. playing in the dirt ... wait.. in the soil.. you will be covered in dirt when you are done ... lol ...

ken

Thanks to all of you for your great support and suggestions. I now have learned that I am in zone 6. It's the first step! I will start to pay attention to the sun/shade conditions at different times of the day. I also plan to go out looking at the nurseries in our area to get an idea of what is out there. I imagine different things come out at different times - but since I don't have any idea of what I am looking for - I will see what looks pretty.
I also have a question about the warning of the invasive plants. Can you describe this further? I would think it would be great to have something successfully grow, and then spread?!

Ashik, many of the contributors to this forum could give excellent advice on this. But this is my version.

The two kinds of invasives are seeders and runners.
The latter (e.g native asters (which also seed) compared to horticultural asters), are in my experience worse, particularly because I never use herbicides, doing all removal manually.

Invasives are not team players. They out-compete and replace desirable perennials, reducing the variety of plants in a flowerbed (for me this means less (changing) flower colour through the growing season).

Crown vetch is a nightmare. The roots break into still viable pieces when you try to remove them. Goutweed may be worse. I've certainly seen it on it's way to replacing a lawn.

The invasiveness of the same plant varies according to the growing location. Mechanisms (e.g. seasonality, pests, rainfall, etc.) which control a plant in one location may be absent in another.Even locally, a perennial that is invasive in one place may be relatively tame in another. I've found Knautia macedonica, which is a bit of a seeder, almost tolerable in one garden and a rabid seeder in another. The latter garden was watered less and was a bit sandier. Maybe this gave this tough plant an edge in competing with other plants.

At the same time, different gardeners garden for different things. In my case, as indicated, it's above all for colour, in blocks (as much as possible), which change throughout the growing season. I therefore need some control over what's happening in the flower beds.

Invasive plants can be anything that grows with abandon or sets tons of seeds that grow easily (self sows). Lupine, forget me nots, candytuft and snow on the mountain are great plants but they will spread and you will spend hours pulling them out of places you don't want them. Just ask here before buying something and they will tell you. Usually, if it is EASY to grow or grows in any conditions, it might give you some trouble.

So, yes It's easy and fun to go sharking around the garden centers or catalog shopping and buying up anything that looks pretty and catches your eye.
But, I think it helps a lot to have an idea of what kind of garden would please you. In your mind you might picture drifts of color, or an English garden, or rock garden. Stands of color.
What you will end up with by sharking around buying this and that is a hodgepodge that looks all awkard and makes you feel like it has no music. Just a bunch of single notes. Oh there is a Holly hock, behind it is sedum, beside it is daylillies going to eat the salvia beside that.... (to those who garden, they know this scenario is bad for a number of reasons). You might end up digging half of it out.

So- start by doing an internet search on "perennial garden" perennial design, perennial bed etc.
Study what you like about them and even copy them.

Then Pick a few anchor plants you know you want to have and learn about them. When do they bloom. How long.
Ask here what people think they are like. Then
Then think about what would partner nicely with your must have plants. What will fill in the blooming time, the space- harmonize or pop the color scheme.
Plants that have nice foliage out of bloom are really key to a good perennial bed - there are all kinds of foliage, stappy, floppy, tall, creeping, blue, yellow, red, variegated etc.

I should note-- most perennial beds need a lot of sun. If you have little sun, then you need to look for "shade garden" shade perennial bed" the plants will not be the same.

good luck and have fun!

This post was edited by lola-lemon on Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 3:39

Are you experienced souls able to suggest options for me, being in zone 6, with partial shade and one sunny patch (this is where I have had two plants reappear for two years - so excited with this!). Also, I don't know if it goes hand in hand with being in zone 6 - but we unfortunately have deer that have repeatedly eaten the annuals.

Ashik -

I know it's way less exciting than planning and planting, but it's way easier to improve your soil before planting. Figure out where your bed will be and then add compost in as large a quantity as you can get to that area. You won't regret it. (I know I suggested soil improvement before, but I really can't stress it enough! Not improving soil, was the biggest error I made when I began gardening.)

A good resource to borrow from the library (or buy or ask for as a gift if you like it) would be a good quality general gardening book like The Well-Tended Perennial Garden or The Well-Designed Mixed Garden, both byTracy DiSabato-Aust. It will give you a great initial overview of garden design, creation, and maintenance.

Thanks for the information about the deer and your zone. Knowing you have had deer issues is quite helpful, though if deer are hungry enough, you may need to resort to sprays, fences, a dog, or other strategies to discourage them.

A bit more location information would be helpful for you to get the best plant suggestions. Zone 6 covers a huge area of the country, including parts of OK, IL, MA, NV, and CA, just to give an idea of the range of areas. The growing conditions can be very different, though, since zone really only covers the coldest average winter temperatures. Things like amount of rain and type of soil also play important roles in garden success, so if you can give us a general area (like Lake Michigan shore or near Binghamton NY or southern OH) it would help. For instance, I might suggest plants for MA, but not for NV (water and soil are very different.)

I try to be careful to distinguish between invasive plants and garden thugs. Garden thugs are those that create nightmares in your yard and garden by seeding rampantly into unwanted areas of the lawn and garden or expanding by runners to the point of taking over beds and crowding out other less aggressive plants. In my yard I've removed gooseneck loosestrife, Lobelia siphilitica (Great blue lobelia), and culinary mint, to name just a few plants that were taking over way too much territory. Some of these may have a place in a garden or work just fine in another garden. For instance I have a steep slope covered by old orange ditch lilies which would smother more delicate plants but are great for holding soil and keeping weeds out in an area that is too steep to mow.

Invasives are non-native plants that seed into wild areas carried by birds, wind, or water, potentially a long distance from their origin, and crowd out native species. Examples of this in my area include glossy buckthorn (Rhamnus frangula), burning bush (Euonymus alatus), Norway maple (Acer platanoides), Japanese barberry (Berberis thunbergii), purple loosestrife (Lythrum salicaria)and Japanese honeysuckle (Lonicera japonica.) Some of these are prohibited by law in certain states from being sold or transferred. Again, where these plants cause problems is not universal, but where they are on the invasives list, even if they aren't illegal, it is wise to avoid them since while they may not necessarily cause problems in your yard, they will cause problems to the greater ecosystem in your area. The USDA plants database, linked below, allows you to look up a wide range of plants, and it will list at least some of the areas where a plant is of concern for invasiveness. Knowing the scientific name of plants is helpful (though you can look up common names) because often several different plants have the same common name and that can be confusing. Your state conservation department will probably also have a list of noxious weeds (invasives) for your area.

Here is a link that might be useful: USDA plants database

Good info above.

I'd add that perennial gardens, like mine, are not natural local ecosystems. They contain many plants, native or usually cultivars of native ones and many plants which are non-native (changed or not changed), e.g. originally from Siberia and parts of Japan and Korea.

I'd also add that in a well maintained flower bed, unchanged native plants can be an invasive nuisance. You've got rid of some of their competition and maybe other factors that limit their spread. They can do overwhelmingly well at the expense of more showy plants.

I do use Lobelia siphilitica, though I acknowledge that it does seed around, especially with opportunity provided by sprinkler systems and the like. Still, it's such a pretty plant and so much hardier than all the Lobelia cultivars that I've tried, I feel it's worth a bit more effort. I also find that prompt deadheading and eliminating the seedlings early make that easier.

The best way to avoid garden thugs is to read the threads (there is always at least one recent) that is titled "What do you regret planting" or "Gifts that keep on giving", or some other thread that everyone chimes in on about what they are currently fighting. Read them once, twice, three times, then go back and read them (along with the new ones about the same thing) periodically. Reading these and staying familiar with them will allow you to recognize them from memory when you see one being sold at your local garden center and pass them by so that you don't have to add them to the thread in a year or so because they are taking over your bed! Great, great resource!

The problem I found when I first started was the price. I wanted some variety and the plants I read about were expensive and hard to find.

I would suggest the following; Any Lamium, Sedum and Catmint. All three can easily be divided; the first two just break off a piece, stick in the ground and keep moist preferably in some shade. Another would be Gaillardia, available in seeds, bloom the first year and more seeds.

So you have Lamium for ground cover, Sedum for fall blooms, Gaillardia and Walker's Low for the summer. Voila, flower bed in one year. Then you have a palette to work with and you get a sense of accomplishment.

The caveat being that you prepare a good flowerbed as above.

More expensive perennials (many cultivars) may be more clump-forming (less invasive/less vigorous) than cheaper perennials.

And being less vigorous means that they cost more to produce.

This post was edited by SunnyBorders on Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 13:00

You know it got me thinking - what is the best perennial - bang for the buck. And it was that pretty Gaillardia 'Goblin'. Last year local Walmart was selling little pots for $2.50. Add in some Arizona Red Shades and Apricot and you'd have a Whole mess of cheerful.

Ahhh, this is where it gets to personal taste, I think. I am all for the flower impact, they usually (not 100% of the time) have to be large or at least lots of them. Lamiums, Sedums and Catmints, the green/bloom ratio is a bit off for my tastes (catmints are probably closer than the others). Meaning, I want to see more bloom and less green, if you know what I mean. Interesting about the Gaillardia. They are very impactful and the green/bloom ratio is good on them. Of course, that is just what I like, everyone is different, which is what makes it fun and interesting.

I just did a flower bed for a relative that couldn't do much maintenance and I needed to cover quite a bit of soil and keep the cost reasonable. Everything had to be long-blooming. I chose a tall Euphorbia, Rudbeckia Goldsturm, a hardy Lantana (Miss Huff), a couple of varieties of coreopsis, Rozanne Cranesbill and a shrub, spreading clematis. Big flower impact, long-bloomers, fairly low maintenance. I'll come back in next year and fill in with more spring bloomers, dwarf shrubs, etc., where needed. I was definitely going for bang for the buck and all of these have a good-sized footprint or are great fillers and have the most season of coverage for an initial planting. Hope that helps.

I'm with funnthsun on "more bloom and less green".

But the big thing is having the sun for it.

Perhaps there's "sun" in "funnthsun" for the same reason there's "sun" in "SunnyBorders".

"We have deer."
If i was on a budget and had deer problems, i'd be careful to not spend big$ on anything!....and try to get deer resistant plants. Tho deer resistant is a relative term. Hungry deer =not resistant.

Is monarda deer resistant?
Agastache, sage (caradonna)
Echinacea, rudbeckia??

Even a fat drift of these will give color. They can be started from seed if you are patient.

The shade is one reason I suggested lamium. Get one each of 'Pink Pewter', 'Orchid Frost' and 'White Nancy' - split them, cut off the tops and you have three different ground covers. Potentially, six or more plants each. In a month do it again, if you want. More plants

We get used to patience with perennials. "Three years from now it'll look great". I was just thinking of a quick response. But you're right, people have different ideas. Monardas are good, Goldsturm also.

The problem is getting from one to many. All depends on size and so on. At least it's better than six geraniums and twelve marigolds, a six pack of begonias and call it a day.

This post was edited by boday on Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 22:01

Different ideas, different tastes, different conditions, different energy levels, different budgets and different experiences.

Yes, lots of sun here! My example was just an example of what type of plants I look for. You are right, it is much harder to find the bloom impact for shaded areas. Rozanne will tolerate part shade. You definitely have to be more choosy on shade plants to get the more bloom/less green ratio, though.

Not a sunbather myself, but great for so many showy perennials.
(Not that they want 12 hours of blazing sun.)

Found the same with Geranium 'Rozanne' myself. Know it was a Plant Of the Year, but boy does it deserve that recognition.

Find it's also very hardy and the bloom last much longer the 'Johnson's Blue' which I had used before. Below: is later September, here. I'd already cut the 'Rozanne' back and the Eupatorium ('Chocolate') is coming into bloom.

Deer reisistant shade plants might be hard to come by.

Partial shade is a broad category
If the plants will get less than 4 hours of direct sun-- then I would go with shade plants.

There are great little Heucheras that will bloom most of the summer for you- such as "hollywood"

Astilbe planted in a dense drift makes a beautiful feathery display. Some of the fucia colored ones age purple. they flower for a short time early.

Foxglove- which is a biennial- comes in pink, yellow and white. (Poisonous- so if you have kids...)

The common roadside orange daylily blooms in shade. It will spread tho- so you might want to plant it in a 15 gallon bucket with lots of holes cut into the bottom and a few inches of sand under that. Just buy a used pot from a nursery for less than $5 (a nursery that does landscaping with trees)
http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/weeds/plants/or_daylily.htm

and I really encourage you to think about Hosta as an anchor in your beds. Planting 3 or 4 hostas either of one interesting variety or several kinds makes a very satisfying looking bed -- and they send up white with some purple flower spikes at the end of the summer.

Annabelle Hydangea is the one hydrangea that will bloom well in partial shade in zone 6. She has lovely mopheads. I think the Deer will love to eat her though and you'd never see her bloom if you can't keep them out of your garden.

Annabelle---http://www.plantplaces.com/perl/viewplantdetails.pl?filter=plant&plant_ID=566&fullname=Hydrangea%20arborescens%20'Annabelle'%20Annabelle%20Hydrangea

Astilbe

Neat stuff posted.

Hey Sunnyborders

A lamium in the picture. Almost looks like a 'Nancy Red'. A little echo for the Rozanne. Nice.

True re "echo" (got to remember that), boday.

It's 'Beacon Silver', quite similar.

I spend a fair time recording (on plans) and storing names of cultivars I plant. Sometimes doesn't seem worth it, but it's often the only way I'm sure about identification.

But add to that: a friend of mine told me about a study of labelling in garden centres which found a significant amount of mislabelling!

Thank you all ever so much. I am wondering...if day lillies spread what is the reasoning behind planting them in a 15 gallon bucket?

Also how do I get my soil into good condition which so many of you suggested as being important. DON'T laugh. But where does one buy compost?

Daylilies spread not by seed, but by increasing their root mass- spreading out. If you put them in a bucket, they are contained and can't get out of their bucket.
Monarda same thing.

Re: the bucket planting...... the bucket remains above ground or planted in the ground? I know, stupid question, but I am truly a Newbie in every sense of the word!

Compost sources:

-If your town has a composting program for yard waste, get compost from them.
-Another source for good organic additions to a garden is composted manure if there are any farms in your area. Craigslist or Freecycle may have ads under farm and garden where you can go pick up composted manure by the bucket or truckload. If you have any nongardening friends who own rabbits, their manure can go directly on a garden without composting, but other manures need to age for several months to a year before going onto the garden since otherwise it may be too strong for the plants.
-The most expensive way to buy compost is by the bag from a home center, nursery or garden center.
- Under landscaping materials in the phone book, there will be bulk suppliers of compost (along with topsoil and mulch) who will either fill the back of your pickup truck with compost or will deliver to you. This will be a larger up front expense, but will be less money per given quantity than buying by the bagful.

Spreading plants, like Lamium or day lilies, may spread enough to crowd out other plants, so the bucket keeps the roots from spreading too much. Some places you may want that, like on a steep hill you don't want to mow, but in a garden of mixed perennials, they can be a bit too aggressive.

Deer resistance is a difficult item to judge, since it varies with how hungry the deer are, what plants they have had experience with, and what other food sources are available. However, there are some plants that due to their toxicity or their strong flavors/scents are much less likely to be eaten by deer.

Some plants for sun that are less likely to be eaten by deer:
Nepeta (cat mint)
Mondara (Bee balm) plant this with a barrier like a large container with the bottom cut out so it doesn't spread too much
Agastache (hyssop or hummingbird mint)
Daffodils (bulbs - plant in fall)
Alliums (bulbs - plant in fall)
colchicum (bulb - plant late summer to early fall since it blooms in September) relatively expensive unless you find someone who is dividing them and has some to give away
Salvia - ornamental sages
Perovskia (Russian sage)
Coreopsis verticillata (threadleaf coreopsis)

For shade to part shade:
Cimicifuga AKA Actaea (bugbane AKA black cohosh)
Aconitum (monkshood) toxic - not around kids and wash hands after handling
Digitalis (foxglove) toxic
Pachysandra - ground cover; there is a variegated form
Epimedium - tend to be expensive, so look for them at plant swaps and sales
Lamium (dead nettle)

Hosta tend to be eaten by deer first, so if you want to plant them in shade, you either need to coat them with one of the deer repelling concoctions (repeating after rains) or have a deer fence around the yard.

Here is a link that might be useful: WVU ornamental resistance levels to deer browsing

Hi ashik, and welcome! I have to be honest and say that I've only really skimmed the above responses, but you've gotten a LOT of good advice.

To second and support some of the above suggestions, I agree with starting small, not spending a lot of money right away (especially if you have deer), research, research, research - for deer resistance, shade tolerance, zone tolerance, etc. - and then try, but don't be overly disappointed if after all your research something still doesn't quite work. It happens.

Good soil is the absolute key to success. Personally, I garden organically, and can't IMO stress enough the importance of healthy soil. Start a compost pile, and look into lasagna gardening.

Definitely do look into the winter sowing forum, as Ken suggested. Still plenty of time to do this method even now, and it's an inexpensive, fun, and productive way to get plants. Trust me, my friend, you will be hooked!

You don't give your location, but invasives can be a matter of location, so again, research invasives in your state or area. Remember that some plants are invasive by roots, some by seeding, and this can extend to birds eating the seeds and then spreading them around.

I've had some success with deer by spraying those god-awful concoctions of rotten eggs and garlic, etc. A bit expensive, and you will definitely gag while spraying - I say it keeps EVERYONE out of the garden, lol, not just the deer - but they do seem to work to an extent. You can find a make-your-own recipe, but yeah, good luck with that, lol. I can barely spray it out of the bottle; I can't imagine making that stuff in my kitchen! But, even though it may work, I would still look into the deer resistant stuff (although a hungry deer will eat anything). I use a lot of the deer spray on my hostas, which I just can't live without.

If you plan on going wiith mail-order plants (and I do a lot of mail-order plant buying) be sure to check the Garden Watchdog for nursery reviews, and always feel free to ask here about others' experience with nurseries. I think we are all happy to share our favorites!

Again, start small, watch your area for a season or even too, and in the meantime perhaps use annuals to fill the empty spots while you are planning.

One last thing - IMO opinion, natives are easier and for me (again a personal thing) just fit better in the garden conditions, and with the wildlife in the area.

HAVE FUN!! Geez, I had fun just skimming the thread and writing my response! It's always fun to relive that excitement of a new gardener - thank you for sharing it with us!

Dee

Thank you all so very much. It has been a while since I visited here, but the weather has finally reminded me that I am behind the eight ball. I went to Costco yesterday and came back with Aubrieta. There are three nice size pots in their holder. What do you recommend I do with these? I will be researching as well, but value your first hand experienced opinions.

i would recommend that you start a new post.. with the name of the plant in the title ... many peeps do not return to the same old post .. over and over..

AND ... the title will be searchable for the next person who wants to know about this specific plant ...

good luck

come back more frequently ... lol

ken

ps: if you cold add a big city name where it says 6 next to your name.. it might matter with some plants ....