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Help with Soil Test Please

16 years ago

Hi All -

I've been vegetable gardening for a few seasons now, but just recently decided to have my soil tested. I could use some input on moving forward with building my soil.

The soil tests show that phosphorus is highly elevated (193 ppm), Nitrogen is low (19ppm) and the PH is a slightly alkaline (7.6). High PH is typical in this area. Some of my plants (currently some strawberries and in the past a few varieties of tomatoes) have shown some yellowing/chlorosis.

Before I started growing in the garden, I added 1/2 inch of manure and have been using a homemade fertilizer formula based on this mother earth news article: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/2006-06-01/A-Better-Way-to-Fertilize-Your-Garden.aspx. I'll stop using that immediately until I reformulate as it does contain some rock phosphate.

The recommendations are that I avoid organic composts and manures. I have a large amount of clay in my soil though, and had planned to keep adding manure to improve the tilth of the soil (I've seen big improvements with the compost). It's also my understanding that if I keep adding manures, that over a period of time, my PH will get better.

Here are my questions:

1. Should I really stop adding compost to the soil completely?

2. What is a good source of Nitrogen for an organic gardener? I've seen Blood Meal recommended, but my family and I are vegetarians, so that doesn't sit so well.

3. It looks like my strawberries are yellowing from iron and/or zinc deficiency as a side effect of my alkalinity and phosphorus problem. The fact sheet that came with my soil test recommends a foliar feed for this. Any product suggestions?

Thanks much for any input or thoughts.

Comments (11)

  • 16 years ago

    Perhaps this link will help in finding natural nutrient sources. Scroll down to "Natural sources of plant nutrients" ... "Providing nitrogen to crops" looks interesting....hope this helps.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fact sheets on organic gardening

  • 16 years ago

    Can you post all the results?

  • 16 years ago

    Sure. Here's a scan of the full test results -

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:264346}}

  • 16 years ago

    I couldn't imagine that adding compost would do anything but help your soil. All the soil in this area is pretty alkaline, but our garden doesn't seem adversely affected. I live just south of Austin, so I take my soil questions to either It's About Thyme in Manchaca or The Natural Gardener in Oak Hill. I'm sure you can find a reputable nursery/garden center in your part of town - the local experts are pretty knowledgeable about gardening in the crazy conditions around here. Good luck with your garden this year, and enjoy our "el nino" winter.

  • 16 years ago

    There is compost and there is compost. If your soil is high in clay, then it would benefit from compost that is made from shredded leaves, plant stems, such as grass stems, even small sticks, like shrub prunings. It takes a year or more to get this type of compost finished, but the results are worth it, because adding fibrous compost will definitely make clay soil easier to work, and help with water retention. Our soil has a pH of 7.6, here in Madison, Wisconsin. We grow tomatoes, swiss chard, green beans, broccoli, and brussels sprouts. The garden is healthy and productive. I'm not sure that you have to lower pH. Manure will raise nitrogen levels, and it should be composted before being put down on the soil. If you want to lower soil pH in a local spot, for instance, where you are growing strawberries, then you can pick up some agricultural sulfur. This can be hard to find. Seed & Feed stores sell it, in areas where alfalfa is grown. I can't imagine why anyone would recommend against "organic" soil amendments. Clay soil always benefits from good quality compost, the kind you make yourself.

  • 16 years ago

    You don't have a lot of clay in your soil you have clay soil. The availability of Nitrogen is highly soil temperature dependant, the Soil Food Web does not function well in cool soils therefore N is not very readily available.
    1) Your soil needs organic matter, unless it already has more than about 8 percent humus levels. Nost soils, with adequate levels of OM only need about 1/2 inch of compost each year, but may need more other vegetative waste to maintain those OM levels. Whether to add more compost or not depends on what your soil needs.
    2) Since chlorosis (yellowing) of plants has many causes, not simply a lack of Nitrogen, before adding more N to the soil I'd look closely to see if that is what is really needed. The link below may help you undertand what is going on.
    3) The link may help here.
    Here are some simple soil tests that may also be of some help,
    1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

    1. Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

    3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

    4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell.

    5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.

    Here is a link that might be useful: About Plant Chlorosis

  • 16 years ago

    Well, first I'll say that your pH should be fine for the tomatoes but, as ericwi said, it could have something to do with the yellowing of strawberries, which are sensitive to alkaline soil conditions. You could bring down your pH with 1 or 2 lbs. of soil sulfur per 100 sq. ft., tilled to a 6 inch depth. That change will happen relatively slowly over time. I wouldn't worry about adding any compost to improve the organic content of the soil right this minute because optimum is around 5 to 6% by dry weight and you're at 7.4%. That's not problematic, but you don't need any more right now.

    In regards to your nutrient values, I'm not going to comment on those because I suspect that they may be out of whack and it wouldn't hurt to have the lab re-run them. I try not to babble too much on the technical end of stuff, but if you're curious as to why I think the numbers might be off, read below. Otherwise, you can just ignore it. The important stuff has already been said.

    The thing that really caught my eye was the super high calcium number. I would raise an eyebrow just on that alone. If it really were that high, you would expect the soluble fraction to be, at the very least, 20 milliequivalents per liter (What they are showing you there is the amounts that they could extract, rather than what is immediately water soluble). I would guess that at the reported extractable values, your soluble potassium and magnesium would probably be in the neighborhood of 5 and 2, respectively and sodium at about 5. (just trust me on these) If you were to add up those estimated saturation extract cations and multiply by 100 you can get a rough idea of what the salinity should be in umhos/cm (micromhos per centimeter). That's a real common quality control check for data and it works because cations in solution conduct a known amount of electricity, which is how they measure salinity (conductivity on the data sheet). With that in mind, your salinity should be around 3200 umhos/cm, rather than 322 umhos. That mismatch of estimated extract values and salinity by about ten makes me think that there may have been a dilution error in the lab...no big deal, it happens. (dilutions in labs typically go in tens) If you look at the other nutrient values again, assuming that the real values may be about 1/10th of reported, they all make sense. The pH and salinity wouldn't be affected because they are determined in a different extraction (commonly either saturation or 1:1 soil to water). The flip side to that would be all of your nutrient values are correct, but the salinity value is off (but I'm still not happy with that calcium value). Now just take it back to the lab and tell them that some yahoo on the internet said he thinks their numbers are wrong and watch their faces. They'll love ya for it.

  • 16 years ago

    Okay, I just re-visited your original post and now I'm leaning more towards the salinity being off rather than the nutrient values. If you're using that mix in the article you linked to, that would explain the calcium. That mix has gypsum and two kinds of lime. All three are big calcium sources and they are all very limited in solubility. So...mystery solved there. I wouldn't use that mix if I were you, since you already have alkaline soil and it calls for a double dose of lime, which will bump your pH upwards even more and further decrease nutrient availability. I would also double the sulfur recommendations I gave above if you've been using all that lime.

    Also, with the amount of manure you've been applying, I would definitely expect to see higher salinity. I think you're nutrient values are probably right but the salinity is off.

  • 16 years ago

    I can explain the soil test: You live in Austin, TX. You have limestone clay soil and you water with city water that has been flowing through limestone caverns or over limestone river beds. You can't get away from it. Your pH and calcium are average for everyone from south of San Antonio to north of Dallas.

    The solution to that is to grow only plants that are adapted to the local conditions. If you want to grow plants adapted to other conditions, you will have to do that in pots with non-native soil and treated water.

    Your local feed store will sell you alfalfa pellets and corn meal at reasonable prices. Both are good sources of "nitrogen." Actually they provide protein for the soil microbes and the protein is converted into plant food containing the nitrogen plants need. Blood meal is hardly ever used in gardening because it is too "hot" and can burn roots. For the grains on tomatoes, you can use a heaping handful under the canopy of each plant on a monthly basis.

    Stop using manure unless it is composted first. Manure has finished composting when it smells very fresh. If it smells like anything but fresh, don't use it yet.

  • 16 years ago

    Thanks all for taking the time to respond.

    I should have clarified that I used a cow manure based compost - not direct manure. Sorry for the error. I think it was advertised as dairy cow manure composted with some bedding and greens. I'm not sure if that effects the expected salinity number. For the locals, it was "Farm Style Compost" from Natural Gardener.

    I also didn't use all the limes in that mixture. Well, I should say I used a little in the beginning, but as I was mixing it up I had a forehead slapping moment. As dchall_san_antonio stated - there is limestone everywhere here. There is a limestone shelf literally sticking out of the earth 150 feet from my garden and I water it from a well that is punched into a limestone aquifer. I generalized "Austin" in my post, but I'm actually just south in Manchaca (so no surface water from the city).

    So...I'll continue a seed meal (I currently use cottonseed), but drop the rock phosphate and avoid all the limes. I also purchased a bag of the 8-2-4 fertilizer today from Natural Gardener that has molasses in it. Again, as dchall_san_antonio said, the molasses is supposed to feed the soil microbes that in turn provide nitrogen to the plant. The molasses is supposed to keep that process a little slower than an uncoated seed meal. There's also some magic to the 8-2-4 ratio that helps that process. I'd like to understand the science of that better if anyone has a recommended reading.

    dchall_san_antonio - Besides a little difference in the NPK values, any reason you recommended alfalfa and corn meal over cottonseed meal?

    Again, thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. I have a much better understanding of our local soils than I did a week ago.

  • 16 years ago

    dchall_san_antonio - Besides a little difference in the NPK values, any reason you recommended alfalfa and corn meal over cottonseed meal?

    None at all. I can't get cottonseed meal in San Antonio. Get whatever is least expensive in your feed store.