Jean, I'm very sorry about Floyd. When you're burning down the highway to see Ann, why not stop off at Cookevegas and you can have my Felicite et Perpetues. I've never gotten the arbor I planned on putting them on and they've been pot ghettoed too long. I think I also have some tip-rooted Alexandre Giraults to share, though he's not viciously prickly. (And you can take Ann the Park's Yellow Tea-Scented Monster I promised her.) ;-)

If the choice is between New Dawn and Awakening, pick Awakening. I have both, the New Dawn was older by 3 years and the Awakening passed it by like it was standing still. As I type I see you've already made that choice :-) I wish you'd been here this spring to hear Drew when we pruned it.

I wish I could remember the name of that once bloomer I had in Hixon, that was one evil rose, actually stopped the riding mower dead with one cane. It was also one BS monster, but the blooms were beautiful - about the size of dinner plates. It had thorns as big as my index fingers and grew enormous canes. Naturally, I planted it next to a walkway and spent the next two seasons hacking at it with long handled pruners. That one I left for the X :-) :-) I smile every time I think of him trying to remove it.

I think my Jaune Desprez is a gonner - too much abuse and that last freeze. I'm hoping Ashdown has a spare.

I have several of Ann's tip rooted American Pillars already potted up and doing well, if you'd rather have an established plant. I'll take one of the tip rooted ones as a replacement - where would I be without a pot ghetto.

Oh, I forgot - Friends Forever from Ashdown. Never mind the original size description, mine actually won out over the morning glories and held its own with City of York. It has the most impressive thorns and canes you could use to bat balls.

Maybe its Forever Friends, I can never get the name straight. You'll like the blooms too and it has good BS resistance.

Cherokee is my favorite neighbor deterrent for dislked neighbors. It grows 20 feet tall and 20 feet wide in my yard. Did I mention that the canes have nasty thorns that even my dog won't pee on it. I like Seven Sisters for a fast growing and easy to train rose which also suckers in your neighbors yard. Bamboo is a better way to get even. You may want to consider Lady Banks also. I'm sorry for your loss. My wife and I have two Australian Shepherds and two cats. We also have an annoying neighbor who hates dogs despite living in a neighborhood with dogs. He throws weeds into my rose garden and curses at my dogs. So we all have those kinds of neighbors. I hope you get satisfaction in court.

Oh, boy, Jean!!! How could I forget!?!!!

Alchemist is huge and has KILLER thorns.

And it is beautiful, to boot.

Haven't heard from you yet, so I think the email didn't go through from GW.

~ Alexis (alexisATalexismastersDOTcom or alexisATdesignbyalexisDOTcom)

Jean, Lafter has wicked thorns. It is not especially large although mine is easily 6' by 5' and has only been in the ground for 2 years. You may already have enough suggestions, but I would hate to get too close to Lafter. Vicki

Jean, I'm sorry.

At least it's not Opelousas, Louisiana--founded 1724--where a neighbor poisoned my utterly harmless cat--told everyone he did it--and got away with it due to politics and a nauseatingly quaint social structure predicated along the lines of: we, who've always been here, can do whatever we want and get away with it

Otherwise, Mermaid, if it'll survive the zone, is a clear choice in this situation. It covered thirty feet of fence in Louisiana in two years--barely halfway planted in a tiny hole adjacent to a concrete parking lot. Birds and rabbits habitated in it that quickly--and the thorns you already know about. It also happens to be ridiculously pleasing to look at.

Finally--cameras, cameras, cameras--they're worth their weight in gold for stopping crap like this.

MichaelAT

I am a former lawyer turned dog trainer. If anyone did this to my dogs, the lawyer might come out of retirement. One reason I left law is other lawyers. Litigators, especially, tend to be so... adversarial. I guess sometimes that comes in handy. Jean, my condolences.

Before you set out the cameras, lobb a few arsenic-laced brownies over the fence and see what happens :)

Cherokee Rose.

It is very fast growing, and is wickedly thorny. I could not believe how fast this Species rose Rambler could take over a property line fnce. In one year it totally covered it. It only booms in Spring, but it really is quite beautiful when in bloom. It is good for a hedge because it is so thorny and it grows so fast!

Jean, so sorry for your loss, you have my deepest sympathy.

I'm so sorry, Jean, and for y'all others too. The number of stories is sickening.

Not more than 2 weeks ago a neighbor poisoned my friend/neighbor's horse next door. She lived, thank God. The man is paranoid-delusional, started doing crack about a year ago, his ex said.

I'm certain I have large starts of 3-4 monsters: Sebastopol Queen from Vintage, Blush Rambler, Evangeline and Toby Trist[r?]am. And plenty of Cherokee, lol.

I can definitely bring them to RU for Pagan's party on Open House May 12, if anyone you'll see will be there then.

I can try to cut them back, etc and mail them [bareroot?] otherwise if you are interested.

My GW mail very rarely comes, so give me a yell here if you send one, please.

So sorry to hear about this situation Jean.

I wish we could buy 10,000 acres somewhere and every one of us rosenuts could share backyards,

I feel your loss.

BC:)

I am sorry to hear about your dog.
If you are sure that its not from all the bad dog and cat food that they are reporting about,it's a shame someone would poison your dog.
I had a problem with a neighbor that complained about a boat that was parked on our gravel parking lot in the back of the house.
They call the city and the found out that because the gravel parking space was put in prior to 1976 it was 'Grandfathered in".
I am sure they were really hot at the time.
We also have a neighbor thats a real nut across the street and outside at midnight with the leaf blower.
He also thinks that someone with plants in the front yard(lot's of roses)should live in the county.
If I could I would!
The biggest ,meanest plant I have is a Green Mantel,a Hybrid Engletaria that I got from Ashdown two years ago.
It was a one gallon own root and is now 12 foot tall and about 8 foot wide. This is in z5 with no die back.
I love it, it only blloms once but it has very nice single flowers and a nice scent.
As soon as they have somemore I will get another.

Stan C

Dear Jean, I am truly sorry for what has been going on, and my deepest sympathy for your Floyd. A kind hearted lady like you should not go through things like these. I am also sorry for other rose lovers who has those horrible experiences. Makes me wonder what is with people, really.

My friend lives in a country with her daughter. Her ex is horrible, and he re-married a hellish woman. They live in a traveling trailer without a shower and her daughter sleeps on a floor when she visits her dad, and they do not restrict themselves whatever they do. My friend's mother is someone whom you would wish to not to be your mother. Her neighbor owns about 5-8 pitbulls and some of them are not chained, they scratch her car and killed her cats. This neighbor shoot "blindly in woods" when my friend is outside. She is building a fence along the property.

Anyway, I recommend Mermaid.

Jean: You are aware that it is against the law for someone to poison your pet. At least in our county here it is in the codes. Prosecute IF you can prove it. I would definitely get video surveillance.
Also some nice tall and full evergreens might serve your purpose as well. I would do a solid privacy fence as big and tall as you get get in addition to the roses if you can afford it.
Problem neighbors are a nightmare aren't they. Scary to realize how many unbalanced people are out there...

and malmason: "his neighbor shoot "blindly in woods" when my friend is outside..." she should be definitely be calling authorities when he does this for sure. This falls under harassment.

And remember folks with problem neighbors, please document everything in photos and a log book for your own protection.

Jean,
I know you being a lawyer will do what you can for Floyd. There isn't much that hasn't been said, but I have been thinking of you and wishing you the best. All the roses I can think of have been named. I hope you get this resolved soon. All the best, I hope you get him......
jenn

Man Bear Pig obviously doesn't know who he is messing with. Has anyone mentioned Silver Moon? My grandfather grew that rose on a fence between two pastures and it was massive and beautiful. If I had room, I would grow it myself. Paul has it growing over the shack and it has engulfed it. Gets 20+feet. Fences, cameras, and thorny monsters are good. I could also loan you a policeman with a big gun for a while....He would glady come, he is as angry about Floyd as I am.

Love ya,
Carol

My sympathies.

Illusion has aMAzing thorns. She sighs wondering about the fence full she planted. Lovely lovely lovely healthy red rose.

Another barrier maker are the ornamental Quince. Wonderful early blooms, nifty fruit & then great thorns.

Also, call the ASPCA. Its a crime. Here one of my cats was killed by a teenager with one of those blow dart guns. The officer was able to get the dart from the body & then prosecuted the kid. Unfortunately the parents moved the little beast out of jurisdiction, but he coulda been nailed. Go for it.

So many have been named--Sombreuil and Devoniensis(grafted-I got it from Ashdowns and it is as beautiful, fast growing and deadly as can be. Sombreuil leapt to the roof in no time and I could name you some lowgrowers to tangle there feet if they're sneaking aroun--Manning's Blush--off she goes-thorns like you wouldn't believe. Pax, territorial imperatrice, long and deadly thorns, where he ever got that name...
My heart aches for you and Floyd. Sending you love.
la

My deep sympathies about Floyd. If anyone harmed my dogs, my life's ambition would become payback. Have you thought of a solar powered hot wire fence in addition to the pergola and fence? But actually, I would try to catch him at it again.....the camera is a great idea, dont let him see it being installed, maybe he will try it again, THEN you can prosecute and get justice for Floyd. Maybe it would be good to wait to plant the roses, make it easy for him to try......put the camera up first, get a dog barking on tape and play that at night to goad him into trying it again. Then whamo - he is on tape, you can get the evidence and take the pig to court. You might ask a vet or whoever did the autopsy how the poison could have been ingested - is it an oil base, a powder? Put in hamburger meat? What type solvent? How many industrial solvents are poisonous to animals - can you narrow it down? Where could this have been purchased? If it came from his place of employment, could be grounds for firing. So sorry for your loss, I dont understand why people cant just live their lives and try to be good citizens.

My God, Jean.
I am so sorry to hear about this. I have no words.
I hope you can catch this sick b@%&*#d and nail him to the wall for it.

I second the wishes above.... if I owned thousands of acres in the wilderness, I would invite all my rosey, gardening, pet loving, garden web posting, pals to come share the earth with me!!! Imagine the glory of individual, lovely homes and gardens, and the fine work of a massive community garden as a gathering point!!!

Again, I am so sorry about your beloved pet. As Forest Gump said "I guess sometimes there just aren't enough rocks".

Allison

Jean,

Will there be a wall behind the monster roses? I just worry that if he was sick enough to poison Floyd than he might pour something on your roses. I would hope a full privacy fence might make that task more difficult should he consider it.

So sorry that this has happened. You are in my thoughts.

Ronda

I'm so sorry about Floyd, he was so beautiful. GPs are close to Samoyeds. Horrible, horrible. I admire your tolerance. I would do razor wire, not roses. Hmmm...how about razor wire under the roses?

I notice that HMF says 'almost thornless' for Blush Rambler btw. I strongly disagree, although the thorns may be a bit spread out. Jon would know [he likes her]... although mine's from RU.

I swear I've lost blood to her too often to have any of this 'thornless' stuff ;] Way worse than a jaunt thru TN sawbriars...[want some NC ones of those, lol?]!

Jean, I have read the responses, and thought that I had responded. I am so sorry to hear that this has happend. It is downright depressing to realize how many people there are that we cannot even begin to relate to.

Your one rose, Jaune Deprez is one of mine, and I have not found it to be a particularly fast grower. I think Fourth of July is pretty thorny, and it seems like Westerland can also take care of itself. They are not, ov course. older roses, but a couple of suggestions.

Good luck to you.

Sammy

I am thinking some poison ivy mixed in along the roses and on the fence might be fun... my sister had some that 'volunteered' under her teenaged daughter's bedroom window.

For a big specimen plant try APPLEJACK. It is one of the older buck roses and disease resistant enough for a no spray garden. E-V-I-L thorns. If the perp falls into those briars he'll never come out - alive that is. Not much repeat bloom though but the foliage smells like apples (hence the name).

For a climber I second AWAKENING. For such a pretty rose she sure does have some mean thorns. Mine had huge bone white thorns. During the winter I swear she looked like a smiling great white shark.

Jean, just read the news, and I'm so sorry. Hope you nail the sob.

Rosa laevigata- enough said
Paul Transom - produced 15 foot canes first year in the ground - flexible- hybrid wichurana
Long John Silver - produced 16 foot canes first year in the ground- vicious thorns
"Moser House Shed Rose" - If you want one, I'll send you one as a memorial rose. Here's the size:
http://www.rosefog.us/MoserHouseShedRose/ShedRose.htm

------
Cass

Sammy, yeah Fourth of July. I had two that Drew REFUSED to dig up - they will make a very substantial contribution in three years and they are one of the very first roses to bloom.

Reminds me that I want them again.......

I don't know whether it's been mentioned, but I've heard Fortune's Double Yellow can be quite vigorous and thorny.

Sorry about your loss....I've got three dogs who are my heart. Robert

We forgot Darlow's Enigma, plenty big enough and equal to the task, also very cold hardy for years like this, can fill in any spaces that require a worthy lacerator.

I am so sorry.
I fenced off "no man's land" areas on both sides of my yard & put padlocks on my gates because of a neighbor's pet-killing, fire-starting son.

I just had to cut down my Mermaid (planted in the wrong place, I had trouble getting to my own front door!), but I kept one cutting...& it's re-sprouting from the root as well.

I'll be happy to send you both, as well as a cutting of Cherokee rose.

Mermaid nearly pushed over its pergola made of cedar 4x4s & cattle panel (heavy livestock wire), & I had to climb onto the roof about twice a year to cut back the canes that were headed to the ridge row!
& its thorns are like fishhooks.
big fishhooks.

It nearly killed 2 big strong men & me to get it out of there.

I just got the cutting of Cherokee rose, but I can get another.

The only one I ever saw "in person" was at the Ft Worth Rose Garden, where it had engulfed a covered wagon to the point that you had to look to find the wagon in there.

Email me at sylviaboardwalk@aol.com if you want me to send you these.

Jean, I note how many have mentioned the cherokee rose, which is not really quite hardy here. My friend in GA refers to Silver Moon as "the Cherokee rose on steroids". I know Jay at Burgess Falls Nursery just south of Cookeville has a few Silver Moons, though they may not be very big yet. RE Ilusion, it really is a great, and very thorny rose. Extremely healthy, and Henry Kuska was right, the Japanese beetles won't touch the leaves or flowers.

We are actually on the other end of the stick re dogs. We have lost umpteen young banty chickens in the last 6 months, thought it was a young feist dog we had just gotten, almost got rid of her because of it. I did see a big red dog a couple of times in the area, but never saw it after the chickens. Then came home a month ago to find dead ducks all over the place. We then heard that we have a new neighbor and saw his big German Shepherd and black lab with known chicken killing histories. We locked up the remaining ducks and chickens, then came home the next week to find that chickens had been removed from two cages that were easy to open. The very next day our dogs went crazy and there was the big red dog with a great big husky right among the chicken cages. We have been told these two belong to relatives of the other problem dog owners, naturally. That's 4 large dogs after our livestock, coming from 2 different directions but all belonging to one extended family. This is way out in the country where it is well known that dogs will be shot for attacking livestock. Alas, the hard part is spotting them, they are too smart to come close when we are home. It's not the same as when it's human evil at work, these are just large dogs that are let roam and aren't fed too well, following their nature. We don't WANT to shoot them, but hear that the owners have been unreasonable about complaints by other neighbors about their dogs. I feel for you. It's been said that for every 10 people, 1 is born to make the other 9 miserable. Donna

Jean, I'm just now reading this for the first time. I have no rose suggestions, but must tell you how very sorry I am to hear about Floyd. I don't understand how some people can be so twisted.

Rosefolly

Donna.....be nice to the dogs. Call them and offer them treats when you can spot them. Then catch them and haul them so far they cant get back. I have had neighbor dog trouble, I think a worthless black lab ran one of my miniature mares [who had a foal at side] into a fence where she broke her neck. That worthless dog went for a very long ride. I dont contact the neighbors, they wont do anything anyway. I just rid myself of the problem quietly. If they get another one and I catch it, same thing. If they cared for their dog, they would keep it home.

Jean, first...I am so sorry you have to deal with such a situation. When I read your thread beginning, and poison, what horrible things people do. Anyway, reading the first responses, I was thinking "MER-MAID, MER-MAID, MER-MAID"...and it was not cropping up...so I did a search, and saw further down that some posters started suggesting Mermaid. I'd say Mermaid, and then, for contrast, Pink Mermaid! Then, put all the lovelier ones nearer you. To think of a Reve d'Or or Jaune Desprez going anywhere near the property line...I mean, do not cast your pearls before swine!

I hope you are vindicated, and that these nasty people go away.

Jerome

Jean, that neighbor sounds dangerous. I've had so many pets, and there are always mean people everywhere. When I was a teenager (longer ago than I like to admit), our neighbor sprayed weed killer into two of our kittens' eyes (my father was outside with them but didn't actually see him do it). To this day, I'm not positive he did it, but they were screaming in pain, and I ran with them upstairs to the bathtub and rinsed their eyes out, then my dad rushed me with them to the vet who said they would be ok. When we got home, I yelled at him, "Why did you do that to my kittens?" He played dumb. Somehow mama cat got in his basement, and he said he was scared of cats or something like that, she was hiding under a work bench, so I went and got her. Luckily he didn't hurt her, he might have and that's why she was hiding. But to this day I have hated him because of the kittens, he's long gone. Wow, I don't know how I can forgive him and I probably should, I have trouble with that.

He told another neighbor who told my dad, "When they go on vacation, that cat's fair game." We boarded the cat. That was in the days when there weren't the pet confinement laws like now.

I used to yearn to live in the country, but don't think I could do it alone. Neighbors have helped me out many times, but I've had some nasty ones, too. It helps a little, but not always, if you live on a corner.

I sure hope things get better for you, Jean. I don't know what I would do, probably have to suck it up.

Dear Jean,

I am so sorry about the loss of your dog, Floyd.

Cecile Brunner comes to mind, although the thorns are not big, there are many of them and they stick to you like anything - and it grows like wildfire. I planted one in my yard and in two years it has covered my 10 foot arbor and needs to be pruned back. Another tall grower is wisteria - not thorny but rampant and pyracantha is very thorny. How about tall bamboo?

Here is Cecile Brunner last year - this year it is over the top:

{{gwi:244667}}

Here is pyracantha the second year planted from one gallon container, the fence is a six foot fence:
{{gwi:247621}}

Here are two wisteria pictured from last year, purchased as a standard, this year is covers the whole arbor, this is the third year in the ground (don't have a picture yet this year)sorry about small picture but was in the distance, arbor is 20 feet long and 10 feet wide, so you can see it grows quickly:
{{gwi:247623}}

Jean,

I'm late here on this, and wanted to express my sadness for your beloved dog. I've been on the Donna end of things way too many times, especially in Texas where somewhat distant neighbors refused to keep their dogs on their own property (a big problem in the country, especially in Texas, not much problem in California that I've seen so far). It's sickening to come home and find all your chickens have been slaughtered for the fun of it by a pack of dogs. However, that's clearly not the problem here, and you clearly are responsible with your own pets. Even though I could have, I just couldn't bring myself to try to kill those dogs, so instead I put up an electric fence around the chickens, and that helped, but it always made me nervous because I was afraid it'd set dry grass on fire during the summer.

As far as possible roses, are the Omeinsis species hardy there? Especially the famous red wing-thorned variety? I don't think that rose can even be touched anywhere without heavy gloves. And I agree about the eglantines, they definitely arm themselves very heavily. I have a feeling Mermaid might get heavily zapped some year in Nashville from a cold winter. I like the idea of the poison ivy, that's pretty clever.

I have to say it's pretty stupid of him to mess with someone who's a lawyer. Sorta on the level of growing pot in plain sight of a sheriff neighbor (of course, if it was like the old sheriff where I went to high school in Texas, he was actually the largest drug dealer around, and one of my neighbors made a very convincing case that he murdered her son, I think because he had some pretty convincing evidence about the sheriff and his "moonlighting" career).

--Ron

I think I remember those stories from the 70's, Ron!

Jean, my climbing Devoniensis is taking off like a bullet this year, and they were only planted last fall. I think they have grown a foot in the past week alone! Probably not as thorny as you are looking for (Mermaid!), but oh, so very beautiful, and proving to be fast growing here. One of mine is from Chamblee's, and the other from ARE.

My thoughts are still with you, and I am confident that Karma is frowning on that blackguard tonight.

Allison

Thanks to all. I owe e-mails to various and sundry for their offers and will get to it tomorrow. I have a monstrous fence underway and the pergola should be in the ground by next weekend. I confess that I am looking forward to sitting in my back yard in plain view polishing a (fake) gun and staring at his window. I will enjoy the placement of the camera staring directly at his house when that's done as well. I'll bet y'all are astounded to know that if you get up really early along with your nice neighbors you can all mow really early and get lots of noisy outside projects done together. The campaign of terror has started and I think I can outlast him. I have the support of my neighbors and I will get him out.

Jean

Dear Jean,

I'm late to this thread but want to add my condolences on your loss. It makes my skin crawl to think that someone would be this cruel out of pettiness. I'm so sad this happened to you, and stunned at the number of similar tales emerging here. May your rose hedge grow like fury!

Best,
Sue

LOL Jean, you and your other neighbors sound like a terrific bunch, and fun to boot. I think you will outlast that pathetic excuse of a neighbor.

--Ron

Check out Arilliga and Cl. La France. Those were scary huge thorny beasts! Both grew about 12 feet tall, and had huge thorns, Cl. New Dawn was a pussycat in comparison.

I have to say that Cherokee Rose was the fastest growing thorny thing that I have ever grown. I took some cuttings, rooted them, and had covered a large wooden fence about 100 feet long with 2 rooted plants in 1 year. Of course we have a long growing season here, but it was truly amazing to see it take over that side of my property so fast. I finally got rid of it the next year because it was only getting bigger.

Another rose that is beautiful in bloom and has the most wicked thorns is Mermaid. It gets tremendous.

I think the thing I've always hated most is when car alarms go off at odd hours--I mean thank God for them--after all they only go off when someone's trying to vandalize or break into ones' car--although sometimes they go off if someone inadvertently presses the panic button on the key fob--as Martha Stewart herself would say--it's a good thing.

MichaelAT

Oh Jean,
I'm so sorry to hear about your GP. They're a lovely, loving breed. What a monster this man is!
Years ago, we lost a beloved dog to a drive by poisoning; the b@stard poured antifreeze over a small bag of dog foog and tossed it in to our yard. As bad as it was tolooseone of our working stock dogs, it could have been worse; only one dog ate the dog food, at the time, we had five,including my daughter's tiny Rat Terrier. (We lived on an 80 acre farm, four miles outside any city limits) We could never prove who did it, but years later, as he became senile, he started dropping hints about how sorry he was that had happened. Actually said once that he'd never knew antifreeze would kill anything, only that it would make it sick...he was the one who was sick IMHO.

You can teach your dogs not to pick up anything in the yard, these websites are good for starters:
Poison Proofing Your Dog

and this one:

Ed Frawley's Basic Dog Obedience Video This page specifically covers poison proofing your dog.

My heart goes out to you.

I'm sorry to hear about your dog too. My beloved cat was poisoned but I think he just ate snail bait the neighbor had put out for snails. It was awful. I don't know if I could keep faith in the human race if someone maliciously killed my pet.

I have some fast growing climbers but they're not particularly thorny..cl. Pinkie, Mme Alfred and Veilchenblau. Also have a small plant of Mermaid. If you'd like any of those just let me know. The blush knockout you gave me is a wonderful plant and I enjoy it very much.
Linda

Let me say first I had to put my cat to sleep a few months ago..he had cancer. It was awful. So I can't imagine losing a pet this way. My deepest condolences. I don't know thorny roses so I will leave it to the experts..But I keep thinking of something really annoying..like get one of those really ugly motion lights and fix it so it shines right into his house. LOL My Ex..was such a pain. Before I married him he had a spat with neighbors..and he decided to get even he was painting a bee with his head in a daisy on his garage door..It was ugly! He kept a straight face when they told him he was ruining property values. He left it there for about a year.

An annoying car alarm would be fun.

I am in Seattle if any of you are too let me know.