flatcoats,

The Troy-Bilts they sell at Lowe's (with the B & S engines) are nearly identical to the Home Depot version with the B & S name, which succeeded the version of 7500/7550 watts made by Generac.

It should have a 30-amp twistlock plug in L14-30R (i.e., 4-prong, 120/240-volt), plus a couple 15- or 20-amp plugs. The previous units had an additional 30-amp twistlock in 3-prong/120-volt.

The run-time at "half-load" is either 8 or 10 hours (I think the Home Depot Generac-now-B & S is 10-hour, Troy-Bilt 8-hour, not sure why). The Home Depot version comes with an "Extend-A-Panel" cord, which is 4-prong 30-amp cord that splits into 4 15-amp plugs, as well as a bottle or two of engine oil, fuel stabilizer and a cover. The Home Depot version is also electric start, with recoil start as well. It comes with the battery, too (many electric-start models do not). Can't speak for the Troy-Bilt on that issue.

I bought the previous Generac version last year, and it is a fantastic unit. I also have a Coleman unit with Tecumseh engine (5000-watt) that is strictly for A/C units, a Campbell-Hausfled with B & S engine (6600-watt) and a B & S "PowerBoss" (5600-watt) I just got CHEAP at Home Depot (clearing out their year-old models).

The 8000-watt unit will run your central A/C plus a few incidentals. It should also power a water heater or dryer, as well as any fridge/freezer. The problem is, it will NOT power all that at the same time. Hence, if you are going to invest in a transfer switch to run items "hard-wired" into house circuitry, spend the extra cash and get a permanent/standby generator. The Troy-Bilt is $1200-$1500 (depending on where you live, etc.). You can get a 12000-watt B & S unit at Sam's Club for $3000. Once the transfer switch is installed, simply decide what you REALLY want/need to power, then wire those circuits.

Bear in mind, though, that an 8000-watt generator can NOT do the same job as a standby. It is tough to make a "portable" generator do a "standby" job.

flatcoats, a little update: the 12000-watt B & S "standby" at Sam's is a little more than $2000. That's a great buy. It would, of course, cost at least another $1000+ to install/hardwire/transfer switch/etc.

Thanks Hawkeyebob!

That is a great price on the standby unit! Problem is fueling it. No NG in our neighborhood so would use propaine, in order to do that would need a tank & service contract. For a buried tank (due to homeowners assoc regs) over $1,500 then have to sign an expensive monthly service contract. Then still have to get transfer switch etc Sigh.....

Ive researched until my head is numb :) I had hoped that someone would put the 8000 watt on sale to get it under the $1,000 tax free holiday cap. I called Lowes and they said no plans in discounting the price. Bummer (the lowes one does come with that extra power cord as well)

I called Troy Bilt and they said this model has long life brush alternator. (everything I have read said go brushless) So how bad is the long life brush - what type of maintenance? Troy Bilt said just keep the load balanced. It does have the cast iron sleeve.

If I have a manual transfer switch does that help at all with the balancing of power? I was looking at the GenTran 30 amp manual transfer switch. Does it help make the power any "cleaner" for electronics?

Some transfer switch kits have an outside weather proof plug in and then the inside panel - Seems like the better way to go, is it??

Counting the hours until that tax free holiday!! :)

Indeed, I too have no NG in my area either and the propane option is just far too expensive as you mentioned. Obviously, powering your well pump is a priority, but your water heater is really not. Cold showers won't hurt. We took "Navy showers" during our last two hurricanes. You quickly turn on the water and rinse, then you turn it off. You fully soap up and then turn on the water and quickly rinse again and then turn off the water. We had warm water for 5 days using this method. In other words, just conserve during the power outage.

Brushes typically have a wear out interval of 2000+ hours. Given this relatively long service interval, there is no technical advantage to a brush vs. non-brush system. This should not be a major concern when selecting a genset.

Brush type alternators do have an additional service point. They're easy and cheap to replace. Replacing brushes is much less expensive than replacing a brushless exciter system should it fail. What happens if your brushless exciter system fails in the middle of an emergency power outage? The answer is, you are up the creek without a paddle and there is nothing you can do. You can't fix it yourself.

If your brushes fail, you just remove two screws from the alternator case and replace the brushes with that spare pair that all good scouts keep in their always prepared kit. Replacing brushes on a portable genset requires no technical knowledge and can be accomplished in less than 10 minutes. An extra set of brushes is cheap insurance.

Cool - Thanks Starhust

Where is the best place to get replacement brushes to have on hand? Also how many oil filters and how much oil did people stock up on to keep the generators running?

Thanks

Brushes are available at any generator or small engine parts store. I got a set for my Coleman Powermate from jackssmallengines.com. A set for my generator cost me $3.30 plus shipping.

My genset has splash lubrication, so it does not have an oil filter. However, I keep 10 quarts of Mobil 1 on hand for oil changes. The Briggs & Stratton 10 HP Intek engine takes 28 oz. of oil so I have enough oil to perform 11 oil changes.

I also keep 6 extra air filters and 6 extra spark plugs in reserve and 2 Briggs & Stratton inline fuel filters. I also bought an extra recoil starter rope just in case the original one breaks. I also have a heavy duty chain and lock set to prevent (or at least discourage) theft of the genset.

As you know, the tax free holiday starts on May 21st. Where I live (northwest Florida), all the major retail outlets (Wal-Mart, Kmart, Sears, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sam's Club, Target, etc.) are stocked with gensets and 5 gallon gas cans to the maximum. Sunday is going to be interesting.

Our power was out for 2 weeks and 3 days following IVAN, 1 week following Dennis, and 3 weeks 2 days following Katrina last September. The electric in our home is separated into 5 different load centers, and we have (2) 5-ton central air units. Rather than even attempt to power the entire house we decided to go the "roughing it route" and wire our generator into the load central (with a transfer switch) on the NW side of the house. This allows us to run a 13,500btu air conditioner, and we cordon off an area by closing interior doors. We cool the family room, the florida room, the kitchen, and a bath. It also runs the fridge, the lights, and our TV/Satellite. We also have enough fuel for 7 days (after which power has been restored to enough areas in the city that you can get fuel without waiting hours and hours in line.) We also power one hot water heater although everything else must be shut off when doing so as it draws 4,500 watts. The unit we have is very similar to your unit, excepting it is powered by a B&S 9-hp. It has a 5-gallon tank, and runs from 9pm to 8am running the fridge, the AC, and a few small fans overnight.
Just make sure you have it locked up even when running it!
Several generators were stolen from folks during the Katrina aftermath. We plug in a clamp-on lamp and clamp it to a post near the generator illuminating the area overnight. Theives dislike being seen and the ones stolen were in unlit areas.

Best of luck to you!

P.S.
Little known factoid - FEMA will reimburse you (not all but a portion) if you purchase the following items POST storm.
Generator
Chainsaw
Tarps

They sent us a check for $850.00 for our generator after Ivan. Note you must purchase the item AFTER the storm not before it.

"Since my plan is to run the genset 24/7, I'll change the oil on a daily basis and the spark plug every 4 days and the air filter as needed based upon inspections."

Spark plug every 4 days? You're out of your mind.

flatcoats, I'm pretty sure you said you live in central Florida? I was just at Tractor Supply out on East Hwy 50 & they have an 8000-watt B & S for $1100! That is the best buy I have seen on that unit in a while. Home Depot went from $1099 for the Generac, to $1149, to $1199 for the "new" B & S version, and now it's at $1249. So Tractor Supply's deal is pretty top-notch.

A transfer switch "by itself" won't make the power any "cleaner". For that, use a UPS system (APC units can usually be "adjusted" for voltage sensitivity--apc.com). NEVER run a computer straight from a genset if you can avoid it. If genset fails, you at least have a couple minutes with UPS system to do an orderly shutdown.

We use an MGE at the office (for our mainframe) and APC units for our "peripheral" computers. I just use an APC unit at home. They come with software, and you can go into the software to adjust voltage-sensitivity settings.

For the size generator (7000-watt or above) you will be hard-pressed to find it for less than $1000. The deal I saw today at Tractor Supply was as good as I have seen in a while.

Now, if you REALLY want to go "all-out", Home Depot sells the Guardian Ultra Source (made by Generac) 12500-watt for about $1900 and the 15000-watt for $1999. Problem? 16-gallon tanks....with 10-hour run-time at half load! But, with a 50-amp (straight-blade) outlet and 50-amp transfer switch (don't know if you'll find a 50-amp "manual" switch) you will be set...at least for 10 hours at a time! About the only thing you would have to "cycle" would be central A/C and hot water heater. Other than rotating those, and not running your whole stove/range, you would be pretty much living a life of (relative) luxury.

starhurst nailed it on the "Navy" showers. Turn on shower, get self wet, turn off shower. Shampoo/soap self. Turn on shower to rinse. Get towel. Get dry.

We had 2 1/2 days of warm H20 in our house....with two women amongst the three of us!

Thanks Hawkeyebob
Yes I'm in central florida, darn, I knew I should have checked Tractor supply again :) Oh well, had a 10% off coupon so got the Lowes Troybilt 8000 that has the B&S Vanguard engine for just a little over $1,100.

It came with a nice power cord so I'm not in a big rush but I'm now looking into 30 amp manual transfer switches. The ones I'm seeing in Home Depot and Lowes - you still have to run a power cord thru a window or door. (BY the way - home depot has the best deal on Carbon Monoxide detector at $36 that is battery operated)

On line I have seen other kits. It seems like the Gen Tran kits that come with an outside plug would be safer and easier to use, Are they? any pros/cons appreciated.

The portable generator sales are going hot and heavy in my area due to the tax free holiday. All the stores (including Home Depot, Lowe's, Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, Kmart, Best Buy, Sam's Club) have gensets for sale. The most popular genset is the Coleman Powermate 6250. This genset has a running wattage rating of 5,000 watts and a surge rating of 6,250 watts.

The interesting thing is that this genset comes in at least three different models and they all use different engines and sell at different prices. The top of the line model uses the Briggs & Stratton 10 HP Intek OHV engine. It's being sold by Home Depot, Target and Best Buy. Prices range from $699.00 (Target) to $649.00 (Best Buy) to $554.00 at Home Depot. This genset is rated to run 11 hours at half load with 5 gallons of gas.

The next Coleman Powermate has a Robin/Subaru 10 HP engine. Both Lowe's and Sam's Club are selling these gensets for $649.00. The genset is rated to run 10 hours at half load with a 6 gallon tank. Sam's Club also has a Briggs and Stratton 6250 with a 9 HP Vanguard engine.

The bottom line model has the 10 HP Tecumseh side valve engine. It's sold at Wal-Mart for $524.00 and is rated to run for 8.5 hours at half load on 5 gallons of gas.

Kmart is (was) selling McCullough gensets for $499.00. As they sell out of these, they are restocking with Craftsman 5,600 watt gensets but I don't know the price.

As I said, these gensets are selling fast and the stores are replenishing their stock quickly. After June 1st, the sales tax holiday will end and all the stores will still have an ample supply of generators and gas cans. As soon as the first hurricane enters the Gulf of Mexico all of the remaining gensets will be sold!

Starhust posted
''Brushes typically have a wear out interval of 2000+ hours. Given this relatively long service interval, there is no technical advantage to a brush vs. non-brush system. This should not be a major concern when selecting a genset.''

With all due respect I think you best ask small power equipment shops and mecanics if a Powermate will last 2000 hours. I seriouly doubt that it will last even half that which is why you do not see contractors, road crews, fire departments, emergency services, local, regional or state governments with these units. A good measurement gauge is rental shops, they keep very good records on everything in order to make $$, ask them what is good and not so good, what costs them the most and the least to maintain and repair. What they normally purchase for engines and other components, what brands are better than others. You can see this for yourself by looking at their equipment and equipment rental lists.

I applaud everyones efforts to protect and provide for their families, all I am saying here is for certain equipment such as an emergency generator go for the best you can afford as your comfort, sanity and health may depend on it.

When disaster strikes take a look at what equipment is down and lined up for repairs at the power equipment shops. Even better, stop in to a few of your local repair shops before disaster strikes and ask them about it and ask for their recommendations, normally they will be pleased to take time to discuss this with you and help you out. Independant repair shops not pushing any particular brand will normally give you a true picture.

That's good advice tahclep. However, I think it would be overkill for me to purchase a contractor or professional grade generator. Those units are very expensive and they're built for use on a daily basis with an extended service life. Most contractor grade generators have a lot of features that I don't need.

Certainly Winco, Honda, Yamaha, Generac, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton and others make many high quality generators. If money was no object, I would have a 20 kW diesel generator installed and be done with this issue. However, I am trying to do this deal on a budget. I have lived in the same house now for over 23 years and during that entire period, I have only needed a generator on two separate occasions (after hurricanes Ivan and Dennis).

In both instances, we lost power for about 5 or 6 days. So, I thought it logical to plan for another similar event, just in case. In reality, we could go for another 10 or 20 years and not see another big storm. Therefore, I don't think it makes a lot of sense for me to purchase a contractor grade generator. I don't need idle control, voltage regulation or inverter technology. I just want to power my refrigerator/freezer, a couple of 8,000 BTU window A/C's, a couple of fans and a few compact fluorescent lights. Except for the occasional brief compressor surge, I will not be pulling more than 2,500 watts.

I have previously tested the Coleman Powermate to make sure it can provide me with the power I need. The voltage, frequency and amperage outputs were all within specifications under load. This generator may sit for many years unused (except for monthly short tests). If I have to use the generator as the result of another major storm, I'll most likely only need it for about 160 hours. I am not going to run any electronics (TV, computer, etc.) or any medical devices from the generator so I really don't need an inverter regulated power supply.

As long as I use synthetic oil and change it religiously, keep the air intake and fuel clean and change the spark plug every 100 hours, this engine should last at least 500 hours. That would get me through 3 major hurricanes! Heck, I bought my generator on sale and it only cost me $333.88. Sorry, but I couldn't pass that price up! I know it's not the best generator on the market, but it's all I need for my purposes. There are many generators that are far worse.

For example, the Honda EG5000 has an 11 HP engine and is rated a 4,500 watts. It costs $1,865.95 and it uses more fuel than the generator I own. It has a lot of bells and whistles and it's an excellent generator. Yet, in the Honda line, that generator is an "economy" model! If you want to get serious about buying a 4,500 watt generator, then you have to go with the Honda EM5000is. It only costs $3,584.95. Both of these generators use more fuel than my generator at their rated loads!

I can just see it now. I'd be the pride of my neighborhood as my super quiet Honda generator powers my appliances for 3 or 4 days, until I run out of gas! After all, I've only got 80 gallons of fuel. Had I used the Coleman Powermate I could get 5 or 6 days of run time! Those extra days make a lot of difference when no gas stations have gas for a 100 mile radius. Fuel economy is a big factor and the Honda 11 HP GX340 OHV engine is less fuel efficient than the Briggs & Stratton 10 HP Intek OHV engine.

Now, if I were a contractor or other professional and my daily income depended upon a generator, you're right tahclep, I'd have a Honda! My needs are far different. Heck, I may never need my generator and I hope that is the case. But if the worst case happens and we get another major hurricane headed our way, I'll have peace of mind knowing that I am prepared. I have food, water, medical supplies, tarps, batteries, flashlights, solar shower, entertainment, roofing repair materials and everything else I need to survive.

The generator is not a necessity. We could live without a generator. It's a small luxury.

Starhurst - I agree, if I was making a living powering saws or other electrical devices day in and day out I would not have bought the 9hp unit I did either. I would have gone for the Yamaha, or Honda units in the 3-4k range as longevity would be a major issue. Since we only "need" the thing after major storms that leave us without electricity for days/weeks it shuffled the "requirements" and made fuel economy and initial sale price a higher ranking requirement than the ability to last thousands of hours. Powering our entire house is just out of the question here, we would need a multi-cylinder diesel unit as we have (1) 4.9T and (1) 4.7T central air unit (zoned E/W). Everything is electric in the house, and if both hot water heaters kicked on together that would be 9,000 watts just in water heater power. I shudder to think how many inrush amps the central air units would pull. It dims the lights momentarily when they kick on individually on utility company power.. I am quite sure even a 15kw unit would say "you want how many amps!" followed by a pffffzzzzt sound and then silence and darkness.
Given the fact we only use the generator during extended power outages such as those associated with a severe tropical storm or hurricane, the whole house generator or high-end commercial portable generator route just did not make sense. If I used the unit day in and day out though I would opt for something other than what I have now.

I chuckle at the person who wondered why you even needed a generator though. I guess if you live in OH a hurricane is something interesting to watch on the news and not a major natural disaster. It is amazing how calm it is afterwards. Not a breath of air for the first few days. Ahhh and the smell of millions of dead bugs and small animals. Yeah, YOU try to sleep with a window open, I am keeping them shut and running the AC.
Those with the means have the right and duty to provide for themselves so that those less fortunate can be tended to by FEMA in a more timely fashion. The first 72 hours you can expect little from any govt agency though. It takes a while to get in, get set up, and get going. Always has.. I suspect it always will.
Best of luck to you and your's this hurricane season. I don't wish one of those storms on anyone, but I hope neither of us "need" to use our generators this year.

flatcoats, I haven't used any Gen Tran switches, so i really couldn't say.

Well, we are now 5 days away from "official" hurricane season.

I am pretty much "ready", just need to get some more water jugs to put in the "disaster closet". I have pretty much decided that I simply do not need to board my windows, so I am going to save my plywood in case I need to cover any holes in the roof or porch or wherever I might incur damage. The only reason to board up windows around here would be to cover drafty or damaged windows, in my opinion. Still, if another Charley should approach, I can cover the two large windows in about 15 minutes. If The Weather Channel says, "It came onshore with 120+ mph winds and is making a beeline for Orlando!", I will have time.

About the only other thing left is to read all the different hurricane survival guides being put out by the stores, newspapers and TV/radio stations, lol!

Do any of the generators mentioned and sold at the big box stores have voltage regulation? I had done some previous reading that when you are running an appliance with a motor for long peroids it should have a voltage regulator. In my case I am looking at running the fridge, Sump pump and some lights. I was looking at the Briggs and Stratton 4000 watt Pro series unit which sells for $999. Is this overkill?

kobrinl,

You can get much better buys than that. A 5550-watt B & S unit goes for $699 at Home Depot.

Most of the better B & S units will have AVR (certainly not all). Ditto for Hondas, Yamahas, Colemans, etc.

Be forewarned: the B & S "Pro" series units can NOT be used with many transfer switches because they have built-in GFCI, and will "trip" when grounded a "2nd" time.

Most box store generators do not have a voltage regulator. If you plan to run sensitive electronic equipment such as a computer or a big color TV, then you'll most likely want close voltage regulation. But for a refrigerator/freezer and a couple of window A/C units, it's really not needed.

Generator voltage is controlled electrically via the power sent to the rotating field. The frequency, cycles per second, Hertz (60 Hz) is determined by the rotational speed of the engine (3600 rpm in the case of a small gasoline engine). The governor controls the engine speed and is supposed to hold it to 3600 rpm or 60 Hz regardless of the load. The fuel consumption goes up the more load you apply to the generator but the speed is supposed to remain constant.

With my generator (Coleman Powermate 6250) the voltage and frequency were very stabile even when compressors cycled on and off. I used an A/C line splitter, a true digital RMS meter and a digital clamp-on amp meter to measure my generator's output under load. The readings were all within rated specifications.

As a matter of fact, I made the same measurements with the same appliances hooked up to their regular power source and the readings were about the same. AC induction motor driven appliances such a refrigerators, freezers, pumps, etc. are designed to run well within a rather wide voltage range (i.e. from 110 to 130 volts). Low voltage causes higher current, overheating and thermal damage to equipment.

Most commercial power plants provide voltage in the 114 to 128 range. I just read the line voltage at my house and it was 126 volts. In some parts of the country, when power companies face high demand, they "brown out" and the voltage to your house is reduced. Sometimes the power company may be forced to reduce line voltage to manage their power generation and distribution. While sometimes, the power company can't control the brown out. It just happens over the entire distribution network because of excessive demand.

So, in reality, you have a far greater risk of damaging your refrigerator and sump pump with the local power utility than you do with a generator. You just have to use common sense and match the generator to the load requirement. Check to see how many amps your refrigerator and sump pump draw. Convert the amps to watts (volts X Amps = watts). Add in the wattage of the light bulbs. Then just add in the surge wattage for the biggest motor you have (the sump pump?). To save fuel, plan to run the generator at half load.

I wouldn't try to run a small generator at its full rated load. Fuel consumption will increase drastically and the alternator will overheat and may fail. Half load is ideal. If the generator is rated to provide a continuous 5,000 watts, then try to keep your demand at 2,500 watts or under. That way you'll burn less fuel and have plenty of room for motor surges.

Starhurst,

Thank's for all the helpfull info. I too have a 6250 and was trying to figure out what it could and couldn't handle. And you have already done all the leg work for me. Again Thanks!

I do have a few questions thou that maybe someone can help me out on.

I live on a 40'x110' lot w/a 2 car garage. So my only hope of storing fuel would be in the garage. I was thinking of a 55 gallon drum capped off, but I'm really worried about doing this for obviuos reasons. Should I go with a metal or plastic drum? Hawkeyebob62 states in this form: "a 80 gallon fire is VERY managable". So a 55 gallon fire shouldn't be a biggy right? Seriously, anyone got any thoughts of storing alot of fuel in the garage safely. Or should I be put in a straight jacket?

Also, I was thinking about baffling my exhaust using flexiable exhaust tubing from the muffler into a 55 gallon drum filled w/fuel it would baffle the noise and make pretty bubbles. Thoughts anyone?

BTW~~~~~~~~~~~> just kidding on the "w/fuel" part. I'll behave and just use water.

Thank's Brian.

1- Do not store that quantity of gasoline in a attached garage. Your asking for an eventual disaster !

2- Store your fuel at the far end of your property in a waterproof non conductive enclosure such as a rubbermaid polymer enclosure for garbage cans or a pressure treated lumber framed waterproof enclosure with the container(s) directly on cool ground or something of such. Make sure there is plenty of air circulation in the sides and bottom of the enclosure to maintain it cool but dry.

3- No problem with a few feet of flexible hose with a muffler at the end but definitely not in to a drum unless you want to kill your engine. There are super low noise mufflers available from certain manufacturers for some engines, or you build an abatement enclosure with noise reduction capabilities around the genny with lots & lots of air circulation.

These things can be dangerous therefore make them safe, otherwise do not even bother as your playing with some really really big matches.

tahclep is right on with fuel storage. 80 gallons in separate containers is a more "manageable" fire than a 55-gallon drum, at least IMO. But in your garage it doesn't matter, because a 6-gallon can will do MUCHO damage to your garage and possibly the rest of your house. If you are home and witness the combustion and have extinguishing agents handy, great. How many of us plan for THAT, though! :)

Far end of your property/away from house is the best bet. I don't know how far you need to go in terms of "protection" as I don't know what adjoins your lot. Given the size, I would guess other houses? In which case, you need to protect the fuel VERY safely. IIRC, starhurst lives on substantial acreage so other structures and proximity to his house are't really issues to concern him.

I have the same problem with fuel, except most of mine goes to my office (outside) when storm approaches.

Speaking of which, I had a "test run" Memorial Day. Power at office went out, I got the call from our staff and was up to the office and running our two on-site generators inside a half hour. Still had plenty of battery left on the UPS systems that power our server, switch and mainframe.
Power came back on after 30 minutes on gensets.

Obviously, with a hurricane approaching I pre-stage some of the prep/set-up work, so I can be ready a few minutes earlier. But for that, I also have to set-up the genset mini-sheds, too.

Good luck to all in the hurricane "centers" this season!

The average car holds 15 to 20 gallons of fuel, and no one seems to mind storing them in garages. I think this is being blown out of proportion.

Best read your insurance policy fine print or consult your insurance agent, you will probably be in for a surprise when it comes to storage of copmbustibles on or in the insured premises.

An automobile fuel system is considered to be a "closed" system. You can argue the point it is not until the sun burns out. What counts is what the insurance company policy says in the matter. The insurance angle is the one that will count in the unfortunate event of a mishap. It would be a tragedy to have your house survive a major hurricane only to burn to the ground in the aftermath. Especially if the insurance company points out it is not covered.
Again I also have copious quantities of fuel on-hand in 6-gallon containers. They are also stored in the vented utility room of the barn over 75 yards from the house.
It would be a bummer, but I would not lose any sleep if the barn was to unfortunately burn to the ground. No, there are no animals kept in it so PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) types can refrain from comment.

I recently walked into a local convenience store and was horrified to see Pennzoil labled as "OUTDOOR" in large letters, then 2-cycle in small letters. Everytime there is a long term power outage some genius brings their genset inside and kills themself running it there. I imagine the inference that there is a special OUTDOOR use oil will not help to straighten out the "confusion" some people have about operating an internal combustion engine indoors.
6 people were reported dead locally post Katrina due to carbon monoxide poisioning from running their generator in an interior room of the house.

Anyone here affected by TS Alberto? Did anyone need to go into "emergency" mode?

Not here, all we had was some much needed rain. Unfortunately we need MORE.
Honestly, if all I use the generator for is to blow the driveway off (out of extension cord reach) I will not complain. It worked flawlessly last year during the power outages so it has had it's real world tests and passed maginificently.
Just as an aside, I ordered a spare set of brushes from Sears. Just type in the coleman PN and up came "brush". They were 2.14 + shipping. Keeping them on-hand as spares just in case.

After looking for a"Quiet Muffler" for a Gen-Set and seeing prices in the $200.00 range. I was wondering if anyone has thought of making a "Quiet Box" to put over the Gen-set to keep the harsh exhaust noises to a minimum. It would have to be ventlated as these units are air-cooled. Some kind of sound absorbing fire resistant material could be used on the inside.
Just throwing this out there to see what you think ??

To tell you the truth as a practical matter, no one really cares about a quiet generator in an exigent circumstance. If youre going to use a portable generator in a campground then you need a super quiet model. However, for emergency power generation, no one in their right mind is going to complain about generator noise.

However, I have seen some ventilated "dog house" structures used to protect portable gensets from rain. Personally, I find the noise of a genset to be a good thing. When you live in a suburban area and a hurricane rolls through, the nights can be deathly silent. All the normal sounds of the night are gone. Its hard to get to sleep.

The sound of a genset is reassuring. When the storm has passed and yet the police, National Guard and other rescue personnel cant get to your location because of destroyed roads, the sound of a generator is very welcome!

Starhust - make sure you have the genset securely locked up even when running. As sad as this sounds, there were MANY generators stolen right from the side of folks houses down here overnight while the thing was running and people were asleep! There were also a number of reports about gas being siphoned from peoples vehicles, and gas cans being stolen.
Not that it is acceptable to steal a generator say.. today or to siphon and steal gas either, but after a natural disaster is just beyond low. The Atty General here raised the punishments to 2x when a state of emergency has been declared. So 5 years for stealing property was upped to 10 years if done while a state of emergency was in effect.
Noise here is absolutely no issue, as my neighbor lives about 3/4 mile away. I could hear the faint drone of his genset, and I am sure he heard the same from mine, it was just reassurance that we were not the only survivors seeing lights and the sounds of a generator.

Indeed fpda31, you and I are on the same page. I have a chain that bolt cutters cant even nick secured with a high security stainless steel Abus padlock. My gas supply is protected as well. After hurricanes Ivan and Dennis we had no police protection. During Ivan, the county emergency operations center was destroyed (the roof blew off and they lost all communications equipment). We had no police, fire or rescue operations for several days. Even the National Guard couldnt get into our area for several days due to heavy road damage and tree blockage.

I am fully prepared for miscreants that might attempt any sort of theft or other harm to my family. I realize that protecting yourself, your family and your property is a top priority after a major disaster. Heck, Ive taken the time and spent the money to purchase food, water, hurricane shutters, tarps, roofing cement and all the other items Ill need to survive a major storm. Im not going to let some criminal ruin my plan and steal my provisions. I have various firearms with ammunition and I know how to use them.

When I am in bed, I will still have security measures in place to thwart unlawful conduct after a major storm. My plan has worked in the past and I am confident it will work if and when I need it again. I just hope I dont need to implement my action plan again!

To quote Mr. T, "I pity the fool that tries to steal my generator."

I have a bunch of cinder blocks I bring out and form a "shed", with a couple rows "sideways" in order to get air flow. I cover the top with a piece of plywood and keep it on with more blocks.

I also park our two cars so that folks can't even WALK up my driveway, let alone get a generator past them. I lock the fuel in a regular shed during "emergency time". And my neighbors (and a few others) know I am always willing to demonstrate my efficiency with the ol' Remington 870. If anyone were to stay around long enough to ask, I'd just explain that I use heavy pheasant loads for two purposes: to give them a "sporting chance" and to get practice on "going away from me" shots, which always trip me up on the dove field!

The office is a bit of a different story. I have the two gensets cable locked to the side of the building (management put in two deep-set eye bolts) and a staff that is on-site 24 hours a day. Oh, and I have NRA & North American Hunting Club stickers on the glass door!

I'm not sure "sound-proofing" is any more worth the investment than getting "converters" to run on propane, natural gas, etc.

Then again, I live close enough to the "city" that I know we'll have power within 3 days and reasonable police protection. And the city in which I live has purchased their electrical grid from Progress (or lack thereof!) Energy, so they have only one town to service. Progress, FP&L, etc., all have multiple grids, cities, counties, etc., to service. Even as we speak the city utility is platting and poring over the system. Progress left it in shambles, records-wise, and didn't even have records of some of the "splicing" and "patching" that was done after Charley/Frances/Jeanne. The service techs said they'd rather NOT have Progress's records given their apparent lack of dedication to service.

Since they took over, "average" outage time-per-occurence has dropped from thirty five minutes to eleven minutes.

I should have stated that I'm in Ohio not in the hurricane damaged areas that most of you are in.
My situation was that I came home last Sat. night to no power and at 10:30 at night didn't want to fire up my genset and wake the whole neighborhood up.
I do, however, know what you have experienced as we go to Southern Alabama and arrived there two weeks after Ivan had hit the area.
Lets hope this year is a hurricane free season, or close to it.

Well, it looks like we Floridians are getting into that "time of year". Ernesto has been "downgraded" (for now), but my guess is that this one isn't the last for the season.

Hope everyone has good luck with their gen-set/survival/recovery set-ups!

The things you think about at the last minute...... I did convince my husband to get the Lowes Troybilt 8000 generator that has the B&S Vanguard engine.

However I could Not get him to put oil and gas in it to try it out and break it in yet.... arrrgghhh

My question is - once you break it in and have to change the oil - what do you drain the oil into? Any tips and hints on generator oil changes? Do you have to get the 4 cycle lawnmower oil or can you use car oil? I have several quarts of Briggs and Stratton 30W oil but think I should stock up on a few more.
thanks

Flatcoats..please read your opreating manual for the new gen.,I know it will tell you when and what to service the thing with (oil). As for what to drain the oil in, you can purchase a oil change kit(plastic) from almost any auto parts store and probably walmart stores and they are inexpensive.note: you must use the oil type that the mfg. says to use in your manual or you will lose your warranty.
Good Luck...PS you may want to get some fuel stabilizer and add to your fuel while fueling it up, because it will go bad if not used within a few months and if you are lucky, you might not use it for a long time and could cause you problems later...just a suggestion.

The best oil for a Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine is 5W-30 or 10W-30 synthetic. I use Mobil 1, 10W-30 in all of my Briggs & Stratton engines.

That 15 HP Vanguard has an oil capacity of less than 2 quarts (about 50 oz.) so you can drain it into a shallow cake pan or other similar container.

Azinoh was perfectly correct in bringing up the safety points he did. You (starhust) may have properly addressed the risks of storing gas, etc., but I guarantee you that these are real risks for the average bozo. Also, I see that you are experimenting with a homemade fuel system to connect up extra tanks. I recommend that you keep it simple. An automotive fuel system is a wonder of modern technology compared to what you are likely to put together, despite the fact that you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Gasoline can be an insidious threat. I am sure that while 80 gallons of burning gasoline might be considered manageable by some, firemen would rather not have to manage it at all.

I really like the idea of a large permanent propane system. It would require a sizeable upfront investment but it would have so many benefits. Fill it only a couple of times a year and it will still have enough capacity to meet your emergency needs without any special planning. No one will steal your 250 gallon tank. Frankly, no one should ever heat with electricity. At the power station, fuel is burned and more than half of the energy is thrown away while making electricity. If you use a propane fired water heater you could get twice as much bang for the buck, year round. Propane fueled engines burn much cleaner so oil doesn't need to be changed as often. If you spill propane it evaporates and floats away, it doesn't sink into the ground and contaminate the water table. I am a thoughtful handy guy but the last time I ran my generator in an emergency I spilled a cup of fuel on the road while siphoning. I like to think it evaporated before it got to the storm sewer but what if you tip over a whole 5-gallon can? The whole propane storage system is lots better engineered. Just because you can get away with lugging gas cans around doesn't mean it is a good idea. A little spillage here, leaky gas cans stored in an enclosed shed in the sun there.... most of the time we are lucky but these are serious threats that can and do catch up with people occasionally. Automotive systems are slightly pressurized and when they do vent it is through a carbon absorption system. The average car crash does not result in a fire because the systems are well built. Even boat tanks are well built. A $5 plastic can is an accident waiting to happen. Why are they sold? Well, airplane fueling stations require that a retractable ground wire be clamped to the exhaust while fueling to reduce the risk from static electricity. The laws of physics are the same for cars but I have never seen that system at a regular gas station. The general public won't tolerate the inconvenience.

Conservation should definitely be part of the solution. If you can get by with only one A/C unit in a dedicated survival room that would be a good idea. A/C and refrigeration can be life or death things under certain circumstances but in an emergency some compromises can be considered. If you can afford to flagrantly cool the whole house then you need to go back and reconsider the true cost of the $5 gas cans.

Have been looking at gens at the big box stores. Can't seem to find anywhere the life of a gen ran at half load. Must be a lot of people in Fla that know all about the life of a generator. Sure would like some input on this
REt

Here is some good info., read attentively:

www.gohonda.com/safety.html

especially the part about not running a portable generator at full power output for more than 30 minutes at a time.

ret73, do you mean how long on a tank, or "lifetime" of the generator?

Typically, a 5000-watt to 7000-watt genset will run 5 to 12 hours at "half" load (tanks of 5 to 8 gallons).

In terms of "lifetime", if you are using it a few times a year for an hour or two each time, you are talking YEARS of use (assuming you do regular maintenance).

Hi out there fellow generator people, trysquie in South West Pennsylvania here. I have a Coleman Powermate 5000W 6250W peak generator with the Tecumseh 10 HP motor (after reading the site I wish it was a B&S motor).

I have talked to a teck who works on these units and he told me that I should use straight 30 W oil. He said that when people use multi grade they blow up. I asked him what he thought about Castrol straight 30 weight. He said that is the good stuf.

He also said the exhaust has female threads for npt pipe, if you remove the factory muffler you can get to the threads, and I could add my own muffler on this type of pipe. He also said to be sure to use a flexable conection on the pipe. I went on "McMaster Carr" site and found flexable stainless pipe (the lower cost unit is discontinued but if you order it they give you the higher cost higher quality unit at the lower cost). You will require some straight threaded pipe and some right angles. I found a small muffler with a heat shield at the local auto parts store (advance auto parts her in PA there part no. from the side of this muffler 18677 9 245 ) and used PC7 epoxt puty to temporally hold the corect mounting angles with respect to the muffler heat shield attaching to U shaped steel bent from 1 inch flat steel that I purched from home depo and bent into two big U shapes to mount to the bolts on the alternator (I had to put longer bolts on that side of the generator, and extend and move the ground wire to the other side of the generator). I used very long flexable hose clamps from NAPA, (two sets, each made of two of the longest they sell) to hold the muffler to the steel while the PC7 epoxy putty dried. After the epoxy cured I had a local auto shop weld the steel to the heat shield (make sure to ask them to be careful not to burn through the muffler when welding to the heat shield). I have a lathe so I was able to turn a piece of steel to make the cup shaped piece that I had welded to the end of the pipe and provide fit to the inside of the input pipe for the muffler. I now have a home made auto muffler adapted to this generator. It did reduce the noise considerably but the valve train, piston, and air intake still make quite a racket. Before it was louder than a gas lawn mower. Now it is not as loud as a gas lawn mower.

The way I added this muffler it moves with the generator and motor but still has the flex pipe for extra give.

I am now going to add a heat shield between the heat shield of the muffler and the generator for added protection of the generator.

I e-mailed Amsoil about oil for these air cooled motors and they e-mailed me back and said that regular multi grade oil will break down and not provide protection in these motors. They said full synthetic multigrade can handle these motors and will not break down. They make a multi-grade 10 W30 SAE 30 specifically for small air cooled motors (and no, I am not an Amsoil dealer or in any way conected to them, or to McMaster Carr, NAPA or advance auto parts). You still have to change the oil every 25 hours of use.

I have learned some things from your web site, and just wanted to pass on some of the things I have learned regarding generators. I use to be around boats and saw many ways that people can blow things up or make mistakes that cause big problems. I hope to learn enough from this site and others to keep my generator runing when required.

Signed, trysqqire in S.W. PA

Just a note to those who have electric water heating. You probably have two heating elements in your water heater. If so you could disconect the upper one and run only the lower one to cut the power demand in half. Of course the heating time will double. If you are into planing ahead you could have this upper element on a heavy duty (high curent rated) switch.

Another good idea is to reduce the number of light bulbs that are screwed in all the way in light fictures that have multiple lights when using a generator.

Signed: Trysquire

Re: Electric water heaters. An additional thought regarding reducing the load placed on your generator when powering an electric water heater.

As mentioned before if you disconect the uper element, then the power draw would be half normal, and the heating time would be TWICE NORMAL.

If you have two heating elements (almost all water heaters have two heating elements) and you rewire them in series (perferably by means of a high power rated (double pole doubel throw) switch that is hiden so no one (like a kid) throws it and puts the water heater back into full wattage) you can reduce the load to one fourth that of normal. The heating time will be FOUR TIMES NORMAL.

Also note that if your water heater is a 240 volt unit and you run it on 120 volts, the power the heater would draw would be only 1/4 of normal. The heating time would be FOUR TIMES NORMAL. This is because at 120 volts the curent draw would be half that of normal. And since the voltage is only 120 (half that of normal) and the wattage is AMPS x VOLTS the wattage draw would be 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4. This is if you ran a 240 volt water heater on 120 volts and left both heating elements conected.

If you ran a 240 volt water heater on 120 volts and you disconected the uper element then the power draw would be 1/8 that of normal. The heating time would also be EIGHT TIMES NORMAL.

If you were to put two 240 volt elements in series and run them on 120 volts the power draw would be 1/16 normal. The heating time would be 16 TIMES NORMAL. This is geting a bit long and might not be enough when adding on heat loss to ambient. However if you realy want to cut back on power draw and you can get by with very long hot water tank recovery time (not too many people using the hot water) this might be worth a try.

Reducing the power draw might be raealy valuable since it would allow you to use a small generator that gets many hours from one gallon of gas such as the HONDA eu2000i .

I have gas hot water. If I had electric I would try the reduced wiring and after determining which worked best for my requirement I would install a hiden switch with a long life low power draw indication light in plain view that would remind me to turn it back to full power when once again runing from the grid. You would require a three pole double throw high power switch (hard to find) so you would have a pole for the light.

Signed: Trysquire

Regarding powering a hot water heater with a generator.

BE SURE that your GENERATOR, and your ELECTRICAL SYSTEM, and your WATER PIPE SYSTEM are PROPERLY GROUNDED.

Most electric water heaters have too much electrical leakage to allow the use of a ground-fault circuit breaker.

If there is any question either don't do it or use a isolation transformer. Use grounds for the generator, for the isolation transformer, for the electric, and for the water system.

Signed: Trysquire

Hear is a good idea. Use the stock paper air filter for normal runing of the generator every 3 or 4 months and for the first 1/2 hour or so for real power outages. Have a K&N air filter with the cleaning and oil kit for the filter for using the K&N filter for real outages. Because the K&N can be cleaned and used over and over you can forget about having enough filters to change to a new filter every 100 hours of use.

The pater filter is best for use every few months because the K&N oil will dry up.

The instructions in the K&N filter clean and oil kit says to wait 20 minutes after you oil the filter.

You could start using the generator with the stock paper filter during an outage and then oil the K&N and install it after it sits for at least 20 minutes.

Because the filter for a generator is small, the clean and oil kit will last for many applications.

Another good idea is to store the clean and oil kit someplace where you will shake it up once in a while, like every time you run your generator every few months.

Signed: Trysquire

Here is some important information. When you shut off your generator for storage be sure to run it completly out of gas. This is so the carb will not have its pasages gumed up by gas that would concentrates as it evaporates during storage time.

If you are going to use an after-run oil (a realy good idea) remove the spark plug and spray after-run oil into cylinder. Pull the start rope a few times and replace the spark plug. Note after run oil will slightly foul the spark plug. After three or four runs bruning off this after run oil the engine will still start but may require a fue more pulls. This is because the plug is becoming more fouled and should be replaced.

For single cylinder motors, after you burn off the gas, and add after-run oil, and have pulled the rope a few times, and replaced the plug, lightly pull the start rope until the resistance of the cylinder begining a compression stroke is noticed. If you do this you insure that both the intake and exhaust valve are closed. This is important because when stored in the closed position the valve spring is not compressed to the maximum like it is when the valve is open. When stored with the valve closed the spring will not crack or loose the ability to move the valve to the closed position. If you store a single cylinder engine with a valve open and its spring compressed there is a chance tht the valve spring will be damaged.

Signed: Trysquire

Propane and natural gas will overall allow the engine of the emergency backup generator to start better in cold weather and after long periods of no use, which will preserve the life of the engine better than gasoline. I got a sweet do-it-yourself kit that can allow individuals to convert their gasoline generator to propane, natural gas, or all three. Propane is easily accessible, and has no shelf life. Therefore, it does not gum up or go bad. It also does not pollute the air like gasoline. In addition to that, individuals can use various sizes of cylinders and tanks, consisting of 100# and 20# cylinders, and 250, 500, and 1000 gallon tanks.

our company just started installing emergency stationary generators that are in use more times than you might think here in Chicago. Our flood season here is a bad one and they always seem to kick in the generators around that time. My auntie has a generator installed to keep her indoor garden going.. quite amazing!