Actually the optimum would be to remove the old mulch completely and put it somewhere else in the garden that has no roses... and put new compost/mulch around the roses... that way if any diseases/larvae are living in the old mulch they will be far away from the roses...

Personally I throw away the old mulch, put composted steer manure around the roses and regular mulch everywhere else...

This past fall I went to a workshop at Ashdown Roses and the speaker was Michael Marriott from Austin Roses. Both he and Paul Zimmerman (from Ashdown) told us to simply add a layer of compost and then a new layer of hardwood mulch right on top of the old stuff. I did this to all my rose beds this winter and have seen great results.

This is a whole lot simpler than carting around the old stuff. They said that the old stuff will keep decomposing and eventually work its way into the soil.

Carole

lainey,

I disagree with with decobug and agree with Carole. I, too, was at that workshop. Besides the obvious amount of extra work to remove last year's mulch, I believe that the little ecosystem that is created over time (with the beneficial insects, fungus, bacteria, etc), would be destroyed if you remove the top layer. I believe it's best to feed the soil and not the plant. I have been adding compost/alfalfa pellets on top of the mulch. If the area is low in mulch, I'll add more. My soil seems black and rich. I don't believe in using any chemical fertilizers or sprays as well. I have to admit, however, I do have a rather high tolerance for blackspot and other maladies...but, if the roses grow and bloom, I'm thrilled.

I don't grow many hybrid teas or floribundas. I grow mostly antique roses, shrub roses, and climbers.

Robert

I do what Carole and Robert do. The Soil Food Web decomposes the old mulch as an additional soil amendment.

Cool responses. It wasn't a dumb question after all.

Hey, I was at that workshop too! And like the other Ashdowners, I just keep adding new layers of mulch over the top. I love how GW members network - that's how I found out about the Ashdown workshop in the first place.

Where do you find alfalfa pellets ? I can't find them at Lowes or Home Depot, would Ace Hardware have them?

I got alfalfa pellets at Tractor Supply. I've never seen it at HD or Lowes. Or try a feed store if there is one near you.

I never remove mulch. I try to keep any BS leaves out of the mulch, but since I also spray, when I do spray, I spray the top layer of mulch and any fallen leaves so the spores are killed.

Ditto with everyone that was at the fall workshop at Ashdown. I have never removed the old mulch. I put down the compost and put the new mulch right over it. I have heavy clay soil and since for year I have been doing this and my soil has realy improved. I use compost from my local garden center.

Speaking of Ashdown workshops, has anyone signed up for the Peter Beales workshop next May (2009). I am going on May 7.

How much of a compost layer are we talking about? An inch? 2 inches?

I think this is a good question and I have wondered myself.

I quit using cedar and cypress mulches and started using cotton burr compost. The wood used to get stuck in the grass shears. besides it just blew out into the iris patch anyway. the cotton burr compost is more nutricious anyway, since cotton takes so many nutrients out of the soil. the grass gets really green around the plants i mulch it with.

Shoot! I shoulda been at that workshop :)

Something I've noticed since moving to VA is that people here put way too much mulch on, so it never gets a chance to decompose into the soil and you get all sorts of weird fungus stuff. This is probably why the question of removing the old mulch came up in the first place. If you mulch every year or even every other year, just add an inch or less--just enough to freshen the look.

catsrose

I too have notice in my area (Va Beach) that people do pile on the mulch, I think is because they are trying to keep the weeds down. There are better ways to do that then tons of mulch or weed killer. Last year I put down a couple of layers of newspaper and then a thin layer of mulch on top and that has really cut back on the weeds plus the newspaper helps feed the soil. I am planing not to mulch again until the fall.

I really like the idea of just adding some compost and mulch over the old stuff--less work (I am such a lazy gardener!). However, now I have another question. How do I add my RoseTone fertilizer and the alfalfa pellets. I always thought they were to be worked gently into the soil. Can't do that if I'm leaving the old mulch down.

Kate

Sure you can.

This past winter I added a new layer of compost and mulch to my rose beds. Not much else I could do here over the winter so why not? This Spring I used Good Morning Roses which requires you to scratch it into the soil. I pushed the new mulch & compost aside at the base of all my roses and scratched in the fertilizer. Then I pushed the mulch & compost back over where I had scratched in the Good Health Roses.

After I had spread all 100 lbs of the fertilizer (no small feat) I grabbed my bag of alfalfa pellets and tossed some at the base of each rose. That was a few weeks ago and I have never seen my roses look as good as they do now.

(I realize that according to Murphy's Law that that statement is inviting disaster so I am feverishly knocking on wood while I type this)

Carole

I realize now that I typed the wrong thing in the above post. I haven't used Good Health Roses yet. It won't be available until next week. I did use Good Morning Roses which is what I meant to type in the above paragraph.

I'll finish my coffee now.

Carole

Carol,

:) hope it helps you. I always speak before I think....Where did you find the Good Health Roses?

Karyn

I haven't found Good Health Roses...yet. I went to Organic Plant Healthcare (I work about 15 minutes away from the store) yesterday and was told it won't be available until April 28th. That was an early AM typo or perhaps wishful thinking. Sorry.

Didn't go to the Ashdown thing and don't know what they said, but it sounds right. Don't know why you would remove the old mulch?? Just add on top. Even if you use wood chips, it will eventually decompose. Depending on the size of the wood chips, you may end up with termites however, or neighborhood cats who think you built a great kitty litter box.

I use cypress or cedar mulch as they are not suppose to attract the buggies. I like Carole just pulled the mulch away that I put down over the winter and add Good Morning Roses and worked it into the soil, and ditto my roses look great. I did not use the alfalfa pellets but it sounds like it makes sense to use it so I will try it. Do you recommend using the pellets in potted roses?

:::Do you recommend using the pellets in potted roses?:::

I have for the last few years with good results. I just toss some in the pot...nothing scientific about it. Just make sure you use the pellets that are intended for horse feed. The others may contain sugar and/or molasses. I buy mine at a local feed store. They usually come in 50 lb bags. The place I buy them will split the bag into 25 lb portions which I either share with a friend or store for later use.

Carole

I add my organic fertilizer in the spring, right after I prune, scratch it into the soil, and then mulch on top. (I use our rose society's home-made organic mulch which has equal parts of alfalfa meal, blood meal, fish meal, bone meal, cottonseed meal and azamite). Usually last year's mulch is pretty much incorporated into the soil by then, except for the winterizing mulch I heaped on my roses (shredded bark). I just incorporate that with the rest of my spring mulch. If you had a layer of mulch left over from last year, you could just scrape it aside, scratch in your fertilizer, and pull the mulch back over it.

Carole

Thanks for the info with using alfalfa pellets. I take a drive to the feed store this weekend and pick up a bag.

Darned if I know.
But what's too much one year (when the mulch hardly breaks down at all) may be totally broken down the second year.
We put newspaper under our mulch (about three inches loose). Some fall all the newspaper is still there; other falls there's no newspaper left.
But time averages rainfall and all the mulch eventually makes the clay better.
(The only place I know there's too much mulch is around the bases of trees where the termites play.)
(Before last year, I would have said that rainfall breaks down mulch. Rainfall does breakdown mulch. But we had really dry conditions, and a load of shredded trees that we gave a treeservice a place to dump are now one fourth the height they were when they were dumped, spring of '07. The compression happened before the winter rains. )

My favorite form of over-mulching is the volcano shaped pile of mulch people put around trees. Very attractive with another suburban staple- the mulch and meatball landscape plan usually incorporating some type of shrub (often obtained at a local big box store) trimmed into a round shape. Having said that, I agree with the posters that leave mulch year after year, and just pile it on the last layer. That's the way my forest does it.

Also, if you can get alfalfa meal it doesn't go through the swelling and looking weird that pellets do. Easier to apply, too.

Other than blocking the light and keeping weeds away, exactly what nutrients does newspaper add to the soil?

I tried alfalfa meal once....on a slightly breezy day. My mistake as I ended up green. It wasn't really windy at all but the stuff blew everywhere and I ended up looking like Marvin the Martian. Nothing a shower couldn't cure but since then I've stuck with the pellets.

Carole

lol Carole...I have an image of you in green!!
Thanks for the smile
:o)

Buford--

Is this the one to use???

{{gwi:261974}}

PLEASE DON'T USE CYPRESS MULCH. OUR CYPRESS SWAMPS ARE BEING DEPLETED. THE TREES CAN'T GROW FAST ENOUGH TO REPLACE THOSE BEING HARVESTED FOR MULCH-- IN HONOR OF EARTH DAY.