Great updated thread Kim!

You might wanna show this to Paul zimmerman. LOL
He shown that own root roses establish quicker than budded/grafted roses, but it always occurred to me, "What if the root stock and scion are not compatible?" which might of been why his Grafted/budded rose did so poorly?
But this is awesome :P I my self am preparing root stocks for some budding and grafting of my own :)

Thank you! Paul and I saw when walking the Ashdown fields in Wasco, the year Arena budded his plants there, some varieties simply didn't require budding. In particular, Mme. Alfred Carriere generated inch and thicker canes on those budded plants the first summer after budding. Others pushed begrudging inches of thin growth. It all depends upon the genetics of the rose, how suitable it is for where it's being grown and under what conditions. For every variety you give me that doesn't require it, I can probably give you one which does.

Here, and in many other less cold severe, longer season areas, many own root plants are going to do wonderfully. Put the same roses in shorter, harsher season areas and they fail. We've all read the posts from forum responders here about how they won't bother with own root plants because they don't flourish in their climates and conditions. Just as we've read those which won't touch budded plants for their stated reasons. But, you have to take your cues from the rose. Most WILL root, but not all will grow well own root. If you want to be sure to get what you're trying to propagate, you're best off trying several methods of propagation. Not all are going to succeed in every situation with every rose, everywhere. I received material from two of this series from the same person at that time. I struck both and budded both. The second variety failed as cuttings, but buds on another piece of Pink Clouds remained green and have only begun pushing growth this year. It's now starting to flower. It's also mildewing up a storm, which might well mean it isn't something I really want to use for breeding, but we'll see. As with the other, I inserted multiple buds on the same, longer whip of Pink Clouds. My goal wasn't to create a garden ready plant of either, but to establish them in my garden so I could begin playing with them. Once you have one plant, you're set! Then, you can generate virtually as many as you want. Also, as with the other Ruffle variety, I intend to cut up the budded pieces of this one to root individually this winter. I know I'll have one budded low, and very possibly other budded plants if I can successfully pull off rooting them. I don't put multiple varieties on the same stock. If one is virused, then all the others are likely then to be also. But, I will put multiples of the same variety on the same stock.
{{gwi:263676}}

{{gwi:263678}}
{{gwi:263680}}

Yes, incompatibility between scion and stock might result in issues with the rose settling in. So could how the budded plant was held prior to planting. If it's held too dry and experiences desiccation prior to planting, there will be issues. We've all experienced where the plant sat there, dying back, drying out instead of breaking into growth. If the rose is one with strongly Foetida genetics, it's a kiss of death. Think Peace, Grey Pearl, Angel Face, Sterling Silver and all other lavenders, yellows and Pernetiana types. Foetida genes hate cold, dry storage. It's been strongly suggested for years this could well be why bare roots of those types are often seen as "devitalized" and often never regain their original vigor.

There are simply too many variables involved to accurately state own roots will establish faster and better than budded, OR vice versa. You can demonstrate that very often, MANY roses will establish and provide you with more propagation and garden use material faster if budded, compared to own root. (I don't blame you for grafting your own!) Kim