Sammy, I have not had enough rain to put down any fertilizer since I pruned in late February. Of course, we were "blessed" with the freeze. I normally only use organics but if time permits, I do add Monty's Joy Juice to my sprayer. I have not done that this year. My water bill is rivaling the national debt, and I am only watering deep once per week. My roses are repeating. It does not look like the spring flush but it is a great flush I am getting. Now if I had time to water and prune, take care of all the spent blooms, I would consider that a big accomplishment.

Dryer weather and less humidity has cut down my need to use fungicides and the Wilt-Pruf seems to be helping.

Most of my beds got a thick layer of newspaper and mulch before the roses went in and we add to that each year. We keep weeds at bay as best we can by companion planting and ground covers.

If you do not like groundcovers, I understand but it really works for me. Nothing eliminates weeding 100% but it certainly reduces it by about 60%.

I am learning that mother nature provided for roses before the chemicals came into play and I am hoping it will be the same for me.

Last year we were involved in our house upgrade/remodel and rain was scarce, but so was fertilization and tending to the garden as we should have and it is no worse for the wear and we did have a great fall bloom, even with our benign neglect.

Should we get some rain, I will add some more Mills (home-made) but for now I am just adding water and praying for rain.

Even my magnolia is prolific without rain and something about that seems quite odd. Perhaps it has been all the caring for the soil and not the plants through time that has enabled things but I am sure if we had 2-3 more rainless years, my plants would need more water and more fertilizer, but for now I am enjoying the bloom. The Marie Pavies that we pruned to 2-feet high in late February are now as tall as I am and on their second bloom, so by the grace of God, things are going fairly well even with that benign neglect.

Don't feel too bad--I haven't fertilized yet, either. Usually I'm super attentive and scheduled with that sort of thing, but this year I haven't been.

Strangely enough, my roses look...better than ever: Huge glossy foliage, fat basal breaks, and tons of buds. What is THAT all about?

I actually had to pull out the "because I'm your mom and I said so" card and have my 8-year-old help with the weeding in the rose garden, because I'm busy trying to control the other 2 acres of landscaped beds that need weeding and spraying, and 3000 nursery potted trees.

I tried Preen once, too, and I found the garden didn't look a lot different--I still pulled tiny weeds all year.

I suppose I'll still get out there with the Miracle Grow before they all start to bloom, but it's making me rethink my early Epsom salt/Miracle Grow/Superthrive/bone meal regime a little, I have to admit.

*shrug* ce la vie

Sammy, I'm sure somebody has used MMM and timed-release together and gotten away with it, but it sounds like a lot to me if you put down the recommended 2 cups of MMM and the full dose of the other. They don't call MMM a fertilizer because they don't want to meet the federal regulations for labelling-- it's hard to maintain consistency of NPK levels in organic mixes unless you test each batch of ingredients and compensate. But MMM is a fertilizer with apparently around 6% nitrogen, as much as Rose Tone. RT is labeled for less than a cup per month, and to me that's a generous feed for a good-sized rose. I know Ann has said she has used 2-3 cups of MMM as the whole season's fertilizer some years.

Both MMM and the Scott's provide NPK with more nitrogen than anything else, which is OK except that excess N is the cause of fertilizer burn. I would think that 1 cup MMM and HALF the labelled dose of Scott's would be a generous two-month feeding.

You shouldn't double up the nitrogen within a labelled time interval. The Scott's label probably suggests what is a very generous feeding.

Michael remembers correctly, and we're at the Mix-our-own stage now.
Patricia and I are having the same problem: drought after freeze. The difference: we have a well; bad side is that we are in a hydrologic drought so are worried about our ground water replenishment. My roses aren't going to exhaust the aquifer (underground cavernous porosity) but will there be water there later? Don't know.
I don't know if we are working fertilizer into the root zones or not. Rainfall isn't doing it (May rainfall 0.52"). My weeds are stunted.
So...I'm watering now, to try to get replacement growth to replace the April damage. I expect we'll cut back on water in July/August to go into summer semi-dormancy.
We replanted three beds, and they're on one limited area; they'll continue to get water, somehow.

Several years ago I noticed in September that organics applied that spring (but not worked in) were still in the upper level of the soil. It took winter rains to get them in...so spring fertilizer was there, waiting for spring's warmer temps. End result: happy worms and roses happy as well. Just took longer than I expected.

I guess I could call my garden a moseying along rose garden. When it happens, it happens.

So, what's your recipe for your homemade version of MMM?

First: no millorganite

(We do have a cement mixer that has mixed more PMM than cement)
Measurements are heaping coffecans.
10 (cottonseed meal and/ or soybean meal)
5 alfalfa (meal preferred)
3-5 fish meal
1 blood meal
1 bone meal or triple phosphate
1 gypsum
1 or 2 epsom salts
3-5 mushroom compost (if we have it)

Mix..

A couple of cups for the really large HTs (more than six productive canes) and for the wonderful mature noisettes.
Two cups for teas (approaching six feet tall)
Smaller roses that have few (3-4 canes) get a cup; smaller polyanthas with large biomass get at least two canes. It's more of a how many leaves are we indirectly feeding than how big the bush is.

But IF I could do one thing for the roses, I'd double the water they get each week.

YMMV. My soils are predominantly clay. Several beds are silty clays and the humus from the mulch mixes into them better.

Is Millorganite Bad? If so, what is in it that is bad?

This is one of those things that's up to individuals to make their own decisions.

I don't want heat-treated human sewage in my rose gardens. That's why we mix our own without Millorganite.

A local box store's selling Millorganite to repel deer "just take a handfull and spread it around your roses". And I know people who did this happily but ineffectively and more recently have hired bow hunters to cull their herd.

We've also been consistant in turning down offers of free fertilizer for our fields, because most of the local municipalities want to spread their sewage on fields...and we've seen it on fields very close to the river. And I'd rather not have it in our ground water, as well.

I am a little afraid of burn, and mainly afraid of stopping the bloom. I want my roses to be healthy, and need to use the time release fertilizer before the fall. This year I am so late with everything, but I guess I should not use them together.

Sammy

Overfertilizing is worse than under. Believe me, I used to overfertilize everything and the plants were sickly. I've barely done anything this year and I have just about every fertilizer under the sun in my garage to push blooms for the spring shows. I usually would have put down MMM, three applications of Mills Easy Feed and a "bloom buster" by now. This year only the MMM has gone into the main beds. The new bareroots and minis in pots have gotten a little more attention. Seaweed in the fungicide sprays. My EZ-Flo (device to distribute fertilizer) stopped working late last year, and I didn't have the energy to mix in the trash can and hand water (I've become a slacker since "retiring").

After the flush, I'll put down another application of MMM, with kelp meal and repair the EZ-Flo so that I can be ready for the fall rose shows. The spring shows are shot for me unless I can pull a few blooms tonight and tomorrow morning. The roses still look good. They are still growing well, although some are not as tall as usual by this time of year, but weather was also a large factos. The usual behemoth Sheer Bliss has grown 2' since pruning in early April, the minis are almost full size, a few of the HTs are about a foot shorter than usual. So it goes. There is usually enough residual fertilizer left over in my yard that I probably don't have to do much at all.

In the community beds my friend manages, she puts down two applications of MMM a season and they are watered regularly. That's it. No time release, no "teas", no Miracles. I'll have to get over to the main bed to see how they are blooming, they usually are very colorful this time of year.

Sammy, I can tell you what works for me. Desperation set in a couple years ago when Ron was having the bout with cancer and I was all alone in deciding what to do. I broadcast triple 13 on all the beds and made sure they were watered. It worked so well, that's what we have been doing ever since. Couple times a growing season and my roses are doing really well. I used to crawl thru the beds, feeding each plant..not any more. I do mulch with leaves in the fall and add new top mulch in the winter into early spring. I think the earthworms are feeding the roses at this point. Groundcovers, like Patricia said, really do help with the weeds. I've decided over the years that gardening shouldn't be that hard and have tried to simplify as much as possible. Works for me..

Last night our rose society celebrated one of our oldest living rosarians and a consulting rosarian who will be leaving our area and returning to his homeland, England, with his lovely wife of 60 years. The dinner party was held at the home of a fellow rosegrower. Jon, the CR who was being feted asked me to walk out in the garden with him and help him identify some of the roses. He is getting cataracts now and making it more difficult to see, but he can see negative's and positive's.

He remarked on what a great mulch they had and wondered why the roses were so small. He knew they hardly pruned, guessing that was one of the reasons for the small bloom. He walked over to a tea and asked me if it was Mrs. B.R. Cant (which it was) as he was no longer able to see them as he once did. He had helped them install their watering system which he designed a few years ago. He showed me how it worked and was appalled that I had never asked his advice for the same since my garden was so large. I swear it could be patented. It was the best watering system I have ever seen. He asked me about another tea which he could not decide between Madame Lombard and Monsier Tillier (I told him it looked like MT). He asked about some of the HTs, some of the newer ones that he was not familiar with. Two of them I had to guess myself as there were no name tags. All the while buffet was being set up inside. We walked over to a whitish yellow rose which we both thought from a distance was lovely and he said is it "Elina or Lemon Spice?" I pulled it closer to him and he said, "Lemon Spice." We both smiled as we both knew it was.

He paused, crossed his arms and said, "When will gardeners ever learn to quit using all the fancy names and just use 8-8-8 or 13-13-13? Three times a season, no more, no less. One cannot be to busy for that, now can one, when one is mixing potions and teas for what? I tell you, it is one of the best things ever invented, the low neutral fertilizers. They need to use it. This garden needs help and the mulch is good, the water is good, just feel the moisture, just the right level."

I asked him how in this poor soil could he have such a lovely garden (I have seen his many times) with just neutral fertilizers. He said, "Long ago, I built the soil. Once the soil was built, I left her alone. She will be good for a while with mushroom mulch. Someday it will need working but it has done well for 20+ years, yes, 8-8-8 has kept her that way and I will miss the soil from my garden, not the house, but the neighbors that I came to love in the garden, but the soil I built and the lovely friends I made along the way, like those of you here tonight. I will miss you, all of you but my time to garden has passed. I want to keep in touch with you. Don't be a stranger. Let me know by telephone or computer. You seem to understand more and inquire more about gardening than winning rose shows."

Let me add, he had to be a great gardener in Scotland to get the job here that he had, caring for the best gardens in this state until age caught up with him. He has won many queens in rose competitions. He grows all kinds of groundcovers and perennials in his rose garden.

Thank you, Patricia.

He refers to his soil as "she"? Now there's a gardener. Great story, Patricia.

For years I fertilized only with 10-10-10, a handful after deadheading each flush. I think if your soil has some clay content to hold the trace & minors, in most cases, it's as good as anything.

Hi Patricia,

Can I ask what kind of ground covers work with roses and don't take over? I am having a really hard time keeping up with weeds and don't want to spray round-up anywhere near my roses. Help!!!

Wonderful Patricia, thank you! yes, build up the soil and it will do the work for us.

Maryinspokane, I use a lot of Nepeta, thyme, etc., and I put in a load of seed each year, annuals (here) and I have perennials that die back and return, salvias, the daylilies that do not take over (but have to be careful which ones you use), lilies that are out of the mainstream (some of the more common varieties will take over). I expect gardeners in your area would be able to advise much better than I. I love delphinium but they will not grow here, so I use larkspur. About the time they are dying down, the cosmos start filling in with the thymes, ajuga and nepeta. I had feverfew at one time but found that very aggressive, but you can use it but you will have to carefully tend it. Irises are beautiful if you have raised beds but due to the normal wet spells we have, they will rot. I think we are becoming a desert, so I might try them again. :)

Hi Patricia,

Delphinium do really well here, and I have several. I have a few Iris, but I cannot get used to the height (36"). I will read up on the few you mentioned and I will have to try Nepeta and Thyme. Thanks for your help.

Patricia, I enjoy reading your post so much! What a wise man and great gardener your friend is! I wish I knew him- one can learn so much from this gentleman! I am sure you will all miss him! By the way, what was his position here that he left his Scotland for?