Mine was purchased as Jaune Desprez. It is growing on a fence 6 feet tall and wide. It has been a rather slow grower. I think it's 5 years old now. Recently I saw one that is twice the size of mine. So I guess there's hope.

I received mine in September 2005 as a band from Vintage and it is now about 3 feet tall and 6 feet wide. For me, the blooms are the most fragrant blooms with the sweetest smell ever. At Vintage, it is easily 8 feet tall or more. I saw it a week and a half ago when I visited their gardens. Mine is just covered in blooms and the only problem I have is that it is not yet big enough to tie it up properly, so that all the blooms are pointed downwards. When it gets big enough, the blooms will nod at one from above. It is my favorite rose at present.

I bought one from Chamblee's 2 years ago last Feb. It struggled for 2 years and then kicked the bucket this winter.
So I bought another one from them (I was reassured by one of the girls there that they had a vigorous clone, the one at her house was huge). I bought it a couple of months ago. It hasn't grown not even one centimeter.
We'll see how it turns out. I'm always interested to hear how other people grow this rose.

My Chamblee's clone hasn't done much in 4 years. 3 of those were in zone 8 Columbia, SC, so you can't attribute it to the cold. It languished in one spot, so I moved it to a pot with good potting soil, then placed it in an optimum/winter protected location with plenty of TLC. A bit better, but not much. I am convinced it needs to be on Fortuniana like Malcolm Manners' MN (he usually chimes in about now to tell us its his most vigorous climber), or maybe needs to come from Vintage. It suprisingly made it through a zone 7 winter in the pot (leaves the roots more exposed than usual).

My sad story is just like all of the above. It is three years in the ground now, and if it doesn't go forward with a leap this year, it will get the ax.

I have searched, to no avail, for a house eater clone such as Dr. Manners describes (I wonder if you know how much I envy you that wonderful plant, over there in Florida?!). The couple of places that I have located which have plants on R. fortuniana do not happen to have MN. Too bad, I want it desperately.

In lieu of a monstrously vigorous Marechal Neil, what yellow climber would anyone recommend? We already have a wonderful Reve d'Or, and I would like something different...

Allison

My MN is on its own roots and is growing better than the other bands I purchased at the same time--Baronne Prevost & Rose du Roi to name a couple. Maybe the Vintage clone on its own roots is what makes the difference.

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your kind reply sharing your experience of MN. I guess my close is good one, at least, since they are about 10ft tall with enough canes to wrap around the pole of arbor. I am glad to hear that there is a hope with this rose.

Got Maréchal from Vintage a few months back (February I think) and it is doing fine. Still very small but growing steadily. I am having the guys down by the novitiate where it's planted disbud it until it puts on size...but we let one flower come forth. It is a masterpiece of a plant.

The Vintage clone seems vigorous to me. I also planted it against a warm wall, since I heard it likes heat.

Jerome

Mine was about 3' tall last year with only 1 bloom and this year I couldn't find it and only the bottom few inches are still green. Crepuscule and Champney's Pink Cluster bought at the same time are 8' tall or more and loaded with buds.

Well Allison, I might as well also keep the tradition up and say looks like mine made it through another zone 3 winter outside with protection (3 winters and naturally the canes don't live beyond two inches but the graft does).

Got one bloom last year and 1.5 feet high ... going for 2 feet this year and two blooms in my mind - got mine from Pickering and grafted on MF and it has to be a good clone to put up with me and my zone 3 nonsense of trying to grow it outside year round - got a cutting to take last fall and this one's going to be grown inside during the winter to see if it will survive and thrive as a "Hot House" rose ... here to blooms all year and no spider mite infestations - I hope.

Italy, zone 8, grafted plant, fast-growing, large, and happy. I don't know what rootstock mine is on, possibly a form of R. canina. The Maréchal appears to take kindly to alkaline clay soil, and mine doesn't need to be fussed over. I bought it four years ago and it's about 18'. I also have an ownroot plant, courtesy of a friend who rooted a cutting from his own, also vigorous Maréchal Niel. It doesn't appear to be doing much. As it's growing in conditions similar to those of the grafted plant, it ought to tell me something about the vigor of ownroot versus grafted plants of MN.

Melissa

I have had an Epiphany.

Here is what Malcolm Manners had to say about this Noisette rose at the "Please wax poetically over Maréchal Niel" thread.

"We grow the "clone" (I hate that word, since the entire variety is a clone; maybe we should say "selection") of MN that was found by Greg Grant, in Texas, years ago -- a very vigorous one that tests free of virus disease. We graft it to 'Fortuniana' roots. That combination makes the most vigorous rose we've ever grown -- easily 15 feet per year, and it will cover whatever structure you put it on. Definitely house-eater category. At it's best, it is an amazingly beautiful rose. But in our humid climate, it balls for quite a lot of the year, and has severe thrips injury at other times. So it's not always beautiful. It's pretty good right now. It's other fault is that it is the most unforgiving of pruning of any rose I've ever seen. We grow it on an 8x8x8 foot arbor with two benches underneath. To keep it tidy on that structure, we have tried to give it a "haircut" a foot or so above the 8' roof. Doing so sometimes kills the plant to the ground. So on those occasions when we simply must prune it, we make sure there are replacement plants coming along in the greenhouse, just in case. What I try to do instead is to remove wayward branches one at a time, so the plant won't "notice" on any one day that it's been pruned. That seems to work."

Until just this moment I used to have major MN envy because of the fascinating history behind the rose not to mention the brilliant canary yellow color, loosely quartered flower form, large nodding blooms, powerful fragrance, and unusual drooping foliage.

Not anymore.

So the skinny is that MN only grows well unprotected in hot climates, has problems with the flowers balling, has no vigor unless grafted on Fortuniana, and dies back significantly (to the point of death) if more than one cane is pruned. I've even read a few reports that the black spot resistance isn't as bulletproof as previoiusly thought.

Lets be honest. Does this sound like a GOOD rose to you?

Frankly I'll take GRAHAM THOMAS or THE PILGRIM anyday over this Fuss-Diva-from-Hades Noisette. At least they grow well on their own roots, are hardy over a greater climatic range, and don't faint if cut back to contain their vigorous growth.

BTW, I officially apologize for all the enabling that I've done in the name of Maréchal Niel.

Image of MN by riku posted at the wax poetically thread.
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Hello Patrick! I have Marechal Niel. I understand what Malcolm is saying about pruning. First off, this is my third season, and maybe this year I'll see its first bloom? Early this spring, the single cane I had on it was about 8' long. Little by little it suffered, from what, I don't know. Maybe I pruned the end of it for some reason and it got mad. But, then we had to prune more and more off, and right now, it's about 4' tall, and who knows if that will remain as is. There are 3 buds. I'd LOVE to see a bloom, and then I'll report back to you. I just wanted to get a few photos of my own, witness the color and form, and smell the fragrance to really make a determination. I'm so far north, that I'm lucky it hasn't died over these past 3 years. Wish me/it luck! If I love it, I'll get more.

Molineux, I literally laughed out loud when I read about your epiphany. Yes, the rose is less than perfect. Yet it is one of my favorites (which is why I always keep a replacement on the way for if/when I kill my big ones). When it doesn't ball or have thrips, it is among the most beautiful of our roses, and it has a delightful perfume. I've never grown "The Pilgrim," so can't compare there, but compared with "Graham Thomas," at least in our climate, GT is the dawg, and doesn't begin to hold a candle to MN. FAR more black-spotty, FAR less floriferous, at least as thripsy. Granted, GT doesn't ball badly, but otherwise, I wouldn't compare the two. Now that being said, I do grow and like GT. But I consider it a challenge in this climate. I've seen it far better in cooler, dryer climates.

Still, you have a point -- MN is finicky, no doubt about it. But I would not want to be without it in the garden.

Mine back home in Minnesota is doing splendidly, actually. It didn't bloom last year for some reason, so I told my mother she could just take it out of its pot and sink it in the garden without protection - if it survives, fine, if not, fine. But she took pity on it and coiled its canes on the ground and topped them with a few bags filled with leaves. Amazingly, it didn't lose much wood at all and has already begun producing flower buds this spring! This clone is anything but weak-growing - it's healthy and would probably be rampant if it could grow in the ground, and as for black spot, I'd say it's one of the better roses I've known even in far less than ideal conditions. This is the Chamblee's clone on its own roots, folks.

Patrick, if you really want to know anything meaningful about this rose, try one yourself and find out!

Hmmmm, isn't it funny how talking through a situation brings some acceptance of the previously unthinkable? I really wanted this rose for the past few seasons. Now it doesn't seem quite as important. Thanks, Patrick.

Riku, I guess you'll have to come up with some other winning rose event to get me to eat a bug again next spring!

Allison

By the way, I pruned away about a third of the growth of my 18' MN early this year and it took it just fine. Does the pruning become problematic if you try to reduce the plant to too low a height? I left mine tall and wide, just thinned it out drastically.

Melissa