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athiker9092

Old Wheel Horse Problems

18 years ago

Hi, first post on the site!

OK so I bought a old wheel horse lawn mower(12hp) and it ran good for a few times and i was really impresed. Then i was going up and down a hill one day and at the crest of the hill it would suddenly shut off. It did this a couple of times until it wouldnt start again. Now the only way it starts is if the choke is on the entire way.(lever must be in the 'cold' position) Gas was changed, oil checked, carb checked(no problems there)?? I have no idea what it is. The only thing I can think is tht the fuel line is pretty old and air may be entering into the fuel line prematuraly?? Please any suggestions will help.

Thank You

Austin

Comments (18)

  • 18 years ago

    Could be the fuel filter is plugging up w/debris and/or the float pin in the carb is sticking.
    If you haven't already, replace the plug, air filter and fuel fiter and see if that doesn't straighten you up. If not then you'll either have to rebuld the carb or get someone to do it for you. It's easy if your mechanically inclined, the parts are fairly cheap and readily available and if you go to Kohler.com you can download a free maintenance manual for your engine with instructions on how to service it.
    I've got two 40+ yr old WH's that still earn their keep. Wheel Horses are worth the $$'s and labor to keep properly serviced.
    Good luck

  • 18 years ago

    Thank you..
    Yeah they seem to be very reliable mowers. Are you sure there is a fuel filter on old models? If so were would it be located?

  • 18 years ago

    Depends on what yr/model you have.
    The 60's and earlier models didn't have an OEM filter (but could be added on), they just had a mesh screen in the fuel cutoff on the bottom of the fuel tank. Later models did but not all.
    Best way to tell is to trace the fuel line from the tank, to the fuel pump then on to the carb. If it has one it'll be in-line somewhere.

    The fuel pump could also be a problem but you cna test it easily. Disconnect the fuel line at the carb then crank the engine over a few time. You should see "pulsed" streams of fuel discharge at fairly high pressure. You don't want to aim it at you eye. Pointing it down into a cup or similar will surfice.
    Again, depending upon which model you have, the fuel could be gravity fed to the pump (tank is higher then the carb) or it may depend totally on the pump to siphon it out of the tank (tank is lower then the carb). Wheel Horse's came in both configs.
    Post your model and yr (if known).
    Odd's are it's a fuel delivery problem......

  • 18 years ago

    I agree with Volfand. My guess is you have less than a half tank of gas in it and the debris in the tank is sloshing around.

    Get it out in the brigh sun and take a look into the tank. Some older models don't have a screen but instead just a nipple with a short hose that goes to the shut off valve.

    If the screen/nipple is clogged you may need to use some compressed air to blow back into the tank to dislodge it.

    By the way, if there IS a fuel filter don't worry if it is not full of gas, that is often the case.

  • 18 years ago

    Ok update...
    By the way thanks for the advice!
    I drained the gas..and of course there was a lot of leaf peices and junk in the tank. So i bought a new fuel filter(my filter sits on the bottom of the tak and is a mesh screen). The carb is definatly gravity fed. But when I fired it up... same old problem it wont run on anything but choke! And it barley runs on choke now! Im not extremely familiar with the carburator, but the bowl always has gas in it??? I thought the gas mixes in the bowl, not just gather in it? Any new thoughts would be great! Its got to be in the Carburtor.

  • 18 years ago

    Hi AT,

    No, the bowl is just a steady storage point for the gas. The float works like on a toilet. If the float valve is tuck no gas in the bowl.

    As pointed out by others, if the float needle valve is stuck you would get no gas in the bowl.

    If the float is not set properly you might get erratic operation on slopes, but that does not seem to be your current problem.

    From there the gas goes to the main and idle jets. The air goes directly through the throat of the carb. As it passes by the jet(s)it sucks some gas (look up the venturi effect) from the jet.

    If the bowl reliably fills then your jet is clogged. If the bowl does not refill after you drain it then the problem is in the float, float needle valve, pump, tank, shutoff, etc.

    There is some small possibility you don't have a fuel problem, but I doubt it.

    I would take the car b apart again. Use toothpicks to clean out any/every hole you see (stick it in and if it has goop wipe it and stick it in again).

    Then blow it all with some compressed air.

    Best of luck.

  • 18 years ago

    One thing I have noticed on the two Kohlers I picked up recently is that the governers were not set up correctly following carb work/overhaul. The first was an M20 on a 1993 GT6000 (my yard mule). The carb had just been professionally rebuilt however the owner became frustrated as the engine would only idle or overspeed. I ran into the same thing a few weeks later on a K341 on my C-165, the governer would not pick up the rpm when a load was placed on the engine, like engaging the hydro, something to watch for.

  • 18 years ago

    I have a mower which used to behave rather similarly ... When the mower was on an incline the engine would start running very poorly ... and it was rather hard to start.

    It turns out I had a good amount of water in the tank and eventually the float bowl ... when going up an incline the washer would slosh into the perfectly wrong position and the float bowl would fill with water - the motor would sputter and slowly die out on me ...

    had to frequently pull the bowl off the little Briggs and drain it and life was good all over again...

    Then i picked up a riding mower which would deliver the same problems... the carb had water in it ... BUT the bottom bowl of my larger riding mowers has a spring loaded brass drain button on it ... simply pressing a the brass button drains the water and probably "some" small debris - very convenient ... What comes out is generally a little bit of water followed by fresh gas ...

    For some reason - I seem to get a lot of condensation on my fuel tanks - so I generally "tickle" the little brass drain buttons once or twice a month...

    Im a scavenger - so I get my stuff used and I typically try to get my new found junk running first - and then start to invest in the parts and stuff to keep it running well... So I STRONGLY suggest that you pick up a fuel filter (I like clear ones so I can see the dirt / water in them) Be careful if you have a vacuum assist fuel pump - some of those filters are specialized.

    You might want to drain your gas tank and leave the cap off for a few days so as to evaporate all gas and water from the tank.

    Put it all back together and at least you know that your eliminated any potential water problems.

    I once had so much water in a gas tank I ended up draining the liquid into a clear plastic water bottle and i could clearly see that i had a ton of water in my gas. You might want to consider this - and then as your ready to start the engine back up you know exactly what your running through your motor...

    While your at it you might consider fresh fuel line and a shut off valve. And finally - pull the float bowl and make sure its really clean. If possible try and pull the bowl off over a cut up water bottle and you can see if you captured any water while you were pulling the bowl off.

    A shut off valve can be very handy - avoiding your carb flooding the crank case with gas and risking engine seizures.

    good luck to you.

  • 18 years ago

    Update...
    I need more help!
    I will be getting the model number shortly so i will post that on here. But as for now im still having the same problem. I bought some carburator cleaner fluid and the amount of crap that came out of the carburator was unbelivable. I reconected the carb and started it up only to find that things have only improved slightly and it still wont run unless the choke is on. So A mechanic told me my carburator needs to be rebuilt..what do all of you think...is that the solution? Any suggestions please.
    Thank You(model number coming shortely)

  • 18 years ago

    When you had the carb apart did you clean all the passages with a toothpick (stick in wiggle, remove, wipe, repeat) followed by carb cleaner to flush it out?

  • 18 years ago

    athiker. Were you able to troubleshoot your problem. I am also a newly wheelhorse owner and ran out of gas by error. I am now experiencing the same trouble.

  • 18 years ago

    I'm having similar problems with an old Wheel Horse that I just bought. I'm not sure of the exact model, but it's a 14 HP automatic, probably from the 70's.

    It worked fine for maybe 15 minutes, then it stalled out on an upgrade. The engine was very hot (meaning it had been running lean?), I could only restart it with the choke on, and it would only idle - it would stall out under any kind of load.

    Since it seemed to be a fuel delivery problem, I cleaned the gas tank and replaced the fuel filter and some old, cracked fuel lines. But it still only runs on idle, and stalls out under load.

    I plan on testing the fuel pump next. Does anyone know how much fuel I should expect to see from the pump?

  • 18 years ago

    It should squirt out several inches or more in pulses.

    As discussed in this thread, checking the tank and filter would be a good idea.

    If you post the engine model and spec numbers there are some guys on this board that can give very detailed advice.

    Best of luck.

  • 18 years ago

    The fuel came out in pulses much shorter than several inches - more like short blobs - but I had at least a cup of gas after about 30 seconds of cranking. That seems like it should be enough. It also seems like everything before the pump (tank, lines, filter) must be OK if I'm getting fuel to the pump.

    Does that mean the problem is likely to be in the carburetor, or is there something I'm missing?

  • 18 years ago

    It didn't come out several inches at a time - it was more like blobs of fuels. But I did get about a cup of gas after 30 seconds of cranking. That seems like it should be enough for the engine to run even at heavy loads.

    Since I got fuel from the pump, that makes me think that everything before the pump (tank, lines, filter) is OK, at least during the fuel pump test. I guess I should check the carburetor next for an obstruction in any of the fuel passages. Is there something else I should be looking for?

  • 17 years ago

    I have a 1996 Toro Wheelhorse 267H tractor with a Kohler CV17 twin engine. HELP!
    I am having the same issue, except this started happening when I replaced the head gasket on #2 cylinder. I have rechecked all the connections, all bolts are torqued to specification. I have removed and cleaned out the carb several times. With the throttle and choke on full, it runs like a champ. I can even start the deck and it will keep runnning. As soon as I move the choke the tiniest amount, the engine sputters and then dies. This is really baffling. Here is what was replaced so far. Fuel lines, fuel filter, oil and oil filter, air filter and pre-filter, head gasket, intake and exhaust gaskets, head bolts, intake bolts, carb to intake gasket, filter plate to carb gasket, coils, wiring harness and spark plugs. I know a lot of the things listed are not related to the problem, but needed replacing anyway.

  • 17 years ago

    See if the engine will start and run, without the gas cap on it! The problems, and the cures you all have tried, never mentioned cleaning out the breather hole in vthe gas cap!
    That little hole being plugged by dirt, bug egg, or just plain anything, will cause all of the problems as stated here!
    Here's the sequence: feller gets a free self propelled mower from a friend, or the curb. Friend sez most of what you all have said. New owner tries everything--nothing works--doesn't open the hole in the gas cap--no start.
    But: A little gas seeps down into the carb over night. Man goes out, sets choke/controls, engine starts and runs for 10-15 seconds, then quits. Man sez a few words-opens gas cap, breaking the vacuum, gas flows into carb, engine runs 10-15 seconds, will not re-start. Man opens gas tank cap (Didn't he do that before?)this breaks the vacuum, gas flows into carb. Man replaces cap, starts engine--it runs until the gas in carb is gone-engine stops. Man checks gas level again, and on & on! Never tries it without the cap being on the tank!
    The preceding furnished by a guy who did that same thing, until he finally learned just what the problem was!!

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