You need to set up a regular spray program to kill what you have and prevent future out breaks. Instead of the all in one get the Bayer Advanced Disease Control. It is strictly fungicide without the insecticide and fertilizer that you don't need. Spray once a week for at least 3 weeks and then go to every other week for a while and then down to once a month and that should keep it from coming back.

You've done everything else right but even so some plants may already be infected but just not showing symptoms yet. So even after spraying some plants will get spots. They already had it but just not showing yet. So when you spray the first time expect to see some more spots break out.

Don't worry about removing all the leaves. They will grow back.

Lauren, what area of Southern California do you live in? What are the roses you're trying to clean up? While your zone can be a tropical heaven, there are many varieties which just aren't healthy without a lot of work in that climate.

Seil is right, though, if you're going to spray, commit to a product and then use it religiously according to the label instructions. You won't be able to keep all of them totally spotless, but you should be able to make them worlds better than you describe them. Good luck! Kim

If it's relatively cool, use the Daconil once, then spray with the Bayer Advanced Disease Control a couple of days later. If you have a problem already out of control, you need something to knock it down, first. Daconil is a pretty good contact killer for BS and rust, but you can't spray it when it's hot or it will burn the leaves.

A better product is Mancozeb (liquid) or Pentathlon (dry) - both are Manzate. It won't burn in the heat (but it will do a number on open blooms), but it will kill any active blackspot or rust in the area.

After that, you can use the Bayer to keep the disease off in the future. The Bayer is great for preventing powdery mildew, too.

Thank you so much, everyone, for your replies!

Is the Bayer Advanced Disease Control safe for pets after it dries? I'd really like to give that one a try.

Roseseek, I'm in Vista, CA (North County San Diego). I only know a few of the roses- the ones I added were Ambridge, Graham Thomas (which is very young but doing better than most), and Aloha. I've also got a William Shakespeare coming from Heirloom Roses(ordered before I knew how bad it was in the garden). Of the ones already here I found a tag on Blue Girl, and in the I.D. forum someone guessed one of them is Manetti, which is by far the most healthy rose in the garden at this point. The rest I think are hybrid teas, and a few minis (that aren't so mini anymore).

I'm feeling much better after your comments! Hopefully this will do the trick and I can share some pictures of my not naked rose plants after a while :)

lauren most of the chemicals recommended "may be" not safe for your pets AND "may be" very risky long term for you, your family, and your neighbors.

Why do I say "may be"?

Because often there is a time lag between INDEPENDENT health related research on long term effects and U.S. government action.

The links below give examples for Mancozeb, one of the chemicals recommended in this thread.

"Altogether, these results indicate that mancozeb affects the somatic cells of the mammalian ovarian follicles by inducing a premalignant-like status, and that such damage occurs to the same extent in both mouse and human GC. These results further substantiate the concept that mancozeb should be regarded as a reproductive toxicant."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22369882

AND ---------------------------------------------------

"Significance
The results of study confirm that mancozeb exposure can induce genotoxicity and apoptosis in CHLs, thus pose a potential risk to exposed human population."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320512000021

----------------------------------
The cite SCORECARD is useful in judging what has been and what has not been determined concerning each chemical.

Here is a link that might be useful: Scorecard for Mancozeb

Thank you for that information. Is there a remedy that you could recommend that is not toxic?

Many thanks

There are a couple of fungicides that are "greener". One is called Serenade and I've seen that one at Walmart. The other is called Green Cure which you have to purchase on line. They do work but you have to be more diligent about using them regularly and at the cure rates not the preventive rates.

Thanks so much for your replies. I have another few questions, and would appreciate your advice :)

How much rust/blackspot/mildew do you tolerate? Do you strip the leaves at the first sign or wait until it's heavily affected the leaf? I've just been removing them at first sign since I wanted the roses to come back (there was rust and bs on every leaf on the roses on one side of the garden and they looked pretty bad). When they were planted they were in full sun (some 10-20 years ago, but there has since grown up a monster pine tree from a live Christmas tree that blocks the sun for part of the day, so they don't get as much sun as they did when they were first planted- maybe that could be contributing to their disease resistance?

Also, one of the roses in a sunnier part of the garden was dug up and gotten rid of since it was COVERED in rust. How long do I need to wait before planting a new rose in that spot? We sprayed the ground maybe 3 weeks ago, then layered a few inches of compost on top.

Thanks for your help with my questions :)

Hydrogen peroxide is a chemical that plants produce to defend themselves against fungus attacks. The http://www.nwfuchsiasociety.com/pests.htm
recommends hydrogen peroxide for rust on fuchsias.
----------------------------------------------

"For fungus problems like rust, botrytis, gray mold-

HYDROGEN PEROXIDE, 3 %, use full strength.

(NOTE: A higher concentration than 3% may harm the plant.)

Keep it in its brown bottle and add the sprayer to it.

Spray it on leaves and stems.

Make sure the plants are well-ventilated around the leaves and in the soil."
--------------------------------
H.Kuska comment: I do not recommend spraying hydrogen peroxide without eye and lung protection.
If I were to use it, I would brush it on infected leaves.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.nwfuchsiasociety.com/pests.htm

EEK! I know what Hydrogen Peroxide does to my hair when I'm outside---I don't think I'm ready to make my roses blonde also.

I don't strip leaves with blackspot. They will eventually fall off, and then I clean up the mess under the rose. I'm too afraid that even damaged leaves are still functioning as part of the plant's warehouse, so I leave them until the rose tells me that it's done with them.

Has anyone tried the Hydrogen Peroxide method with their roses in SoCal? I would love to hear what you think, I have to go to Costco anyway...

Lauren, I live near Escondido, and this year have had more disease than ever before. I notice though that it's decreasing as the warmer, drier weather sets in. I don't spray at all and believe a large part of the solution is growing roses that are suited to our area such as tea roses (not hybrid teas), chinas, polyanthas and some of the Austins. Please do try the tea roses; they're big, gorgeous, bloom a lot and are very tough.

Ingrid

Thanks everyone so much for your replies and input. I appreciate it very much!

Ingrid, I'm very interested to hear that you say there is more disease than before. This is my first year trying to properly care for these plants and I have a new-found passion for roses. I am wondering how much it's worth it to "save" my mom's rosebushes, especially since she's not one way or another about it (I'm a bit of a sentimentalist, and she doesn't even remember much about the roses she planted here). I'm personally more drawn to the look of the antique roses and Austins anyways, so perhaps I should plan to replace some of the hybrid teas if they're going to be a pain. This was supposed to be a relaxing hobby! LOL!
Do you have any suggestions in particular for roses that work well in this area? Much obliged for your opinion, and knowing there are others in the area battling with this makes me feel a bit better, I admit. At least I know it's not just me! I would also prefer to do a more natural thing, and no spraying if I'm able to in the future, so would appreciate your suggestions.

Many thanks! You all have been a tremendous help to me :)

Hydrogen Peroxide is much worse than Manzate, if you check the same links that Henry gave. They list a 52% concentration, but no concentration is given for the Mancozeb fright warnings and none of this stuff is mixed full strength - usually on the order of 1 tablespoon per gallon. That's about a 0.4% solution of the Mancozeb, a whole lot less than Henry's recommended 3% peroxide.

Rosemania sells all the stuff I mention on the forum and the ARS itself has endorsed a number of these products (Bayer 3-in-1, for instance). It's a lot easier to scare people than it is to rationally discuss approved products that work.

EPA and crop use of Hydrogen Peroxide, last updated May 9, 2012.

"Summary
Hydrogen peroxide, well known as an ingredient in disinfectant products, is now also approved for controlling microbial pests on crops growing indoors and outdoors, and on certain crops after harvest. This active ingredient prevents and controls bacteria and fungi that cause serious plant diseases. Hydrogen peroxide breaks down rapidly in the environment to oxygen and water, and is not expected to cause adverse effects to humans or the environment when users follow label directions."
--------------------------
I will repeat my earlier comment: I do not recommend spraying hydrogen peroxide without eye and lung protection.
If I were to use it, I would brush it on infected leaves."

Here is a link that might be useful: EPA factsheet

Lauren, I'm only too glad to help. If you click on my name by one of my posts it will take you to a place where you can e-mail me and I'll be most happy to discuss this with you in greater depth. If you don't have a sentimental attachment to the roses you have now I would suggest you try some roses that are more carefree and also more natural-looking. If you'd ever like to tour my garden and see first-hand what I have that would be my pleasure. The roses that I have right now that are the most healthy are Belinda's Dream which has fragrant pink blooms that are as big as my hand, Souvenir de la Malmaison (blooms constantly), Marie Daly, Sophy's Rose, Pretty Jessica, Amazone, Rosette Delizy, Blue Mist and Le Vesuve. Most of these roses are available on-line. For a beginner I would recommend Chamblee's Nursery since their roses come in gallon pots, but I've also had great luck with bands (those are smaller pots) from places like Rogue Valley Roses and The Antique Rose Emporium. The most important thing when you're ordering is to pick roses suited to your climate and we can help you a lot with that. Good luck and don't hesitate to contact me!

Ingrid

Thanks so much everyone!

Ingrid, thanks for your generous offer to email, etc. I have a few roses I found on the Chamblee's Nursery site I'll email you about. Thanks!

Ingrid, I couldn't find your contact information on your site. Hubby says we have to cool it this year on the rose purchases, but I'm excited to talk to you and plan for next year's plan of attack ;)

Just wanted to update that the roses are doing WORLDS better. They're exploding with new growth, and so far so good. I suppose a combination of all the things we've tried helped out. I'm still doing the baking soda spray thing for now, since it looks like that has helped, but I will bookmark this link when I have trouble again so I can go back and re-read all of your advice.

Thanks again everyone for your input in this matter. I truly appreciate it!

1) I recommend proper PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) for any spraying, period.

2) Beyond 1), I would not worry too much about the effects of reasonable, approved products that you can buy off the shelf (Bayer Advanced Disease Control). Most warnings are specific to the concentrated product, not the diluted spray.

3) Don't be afraid of chemicals. Home brews are often more dangerous and less effective. Bayer Advanced is a miracle product - not just because of its basic effectiveness, but because of its availability. The same crowd around here that suggests all insecticides are bad would like to get rid of all OTC fungicides, as well.

It's best to take a rational approach. Use what's available and works - but follow the precautions recommended on the label. You shouldn't be exposed to anything more worrying than when you fill up your car tank at the gas station.

Thanks so much for your input, RoseTom! My dad has recently asked me the same question I asked here, so I'll be sure to pass on the advice.

The active ingredient in Bayer Advanced Disease Control is tebuconazole. Even though tebuconazole is a German product, the European Union has banned tebuconazole as of 2018.

"Most of the pesticides concerned are produced by German chemical industry giants Bayer or BASF, and include Amitrol, Ioxynil, Tepraloxydim, Epoxiconazole, Iprodion, Metconazole, Tebuconazole and Thiacloprid."

http://digitaljournal.com/article/265134
----------------------------------

Apparently the reason for the ban is: "Due to the potential for endocrine disrupting effects, tebuconazole was assessed by the Swedish Chemicals Agency [3] as being potentially removed from the market by EU regulation 1107/2009.[4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tebuconazole

---------------------------
Title: Combined exposure to endocrine disrupting pesticides impairs parturition, causes pup mortality and affects sexual differentiation in rats.

Authors: Jacobsen PR, Christiansen S, Boberg J, Nellemann C, Hass U.

Authors affiliation: Department of Toxicology and Risk Assessment, National Food Institute, Technical University of Denmark, Søborg, Denmark.

Published in: Int J Androl. 2010 Apr;33(2):pages 434-42.

Abstract: "Risk assessment is currently based on the no observed adverse effect levels (NOAELs) for single compounds. Humans are exposed to a mixture of chemicals and recent studies in our laboratory have shown that combined exposure to endocrine disrupters can cause adverse effects on male sexual development, even though the doses of the single compounds are below their individual NOAELs for anti-androgenic effects. Consequently, we have initiated a large project where the purpose is to study mixture effects of endocrine disrupting pesticides at low doses. In the initial range-finding mixture studies, rats were gavaged during gestation and lactation with five doses of a mixture of the fungicides procymidone, mancozeb, epoxyconazole, tebuconazole and prochloraz. The mixture ratio was chosen according to the doses of each individual pesticide that produced no observable effects on pregnancy length and pup survival in our laboratory and the dose levels used ranged from 25 to 100% of this mixture. All dose levels caused increased gestation length and dose levels above 25% caused impaired parturition leading to markedly decreased number of live born offspring and high pup perinatal mortality. The sexual differentiation of the pups was affected at 25% and higher as anogenital distance was affected in both male and female offspring at birth and the male offspring exhibited malformations of the genital tubercle, increased nipple retention, and decreased prostate and epididymis weights at pup day 13. The results show that doses of endocrine disrupting pesticides, which appear to induce no effects on gestation length, parturition and pup mortality when judged on their own, induced marked adverse effects on these endpoints in concert with other pesticides. In addition, the sexual differentiation of the offspring was affected. This as well as the predictability of the combination effects based on dose-additivity modelling will be studied further in a large dose-response study."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20487043

-------------------------------------
A full 2007 reviewed scientific paper:

"Endocrine-Disrupting Activities In Vivo of the Fungicides Tebuconazole and Epoxiconazole"

http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/2/464.full?sid=89cbb2cc-b636-4c33-bc06-81ecb01b63b5

Here is a link that might be useful: The European Union has banned tebuconazole

25 to 100% mixture? What's the point of posting something like that? It has no relevance.

Tebuconazole is 2.9% of the liquid in Bayer Advanced. The normal mixture rate is 3/4 oz per gallon. My math says that's a normal rose grower's mixture of 0.017% of tebuconazole. That's even assuming you ever inhale or bathe in the stuff.

Good Grief!!

"25 to 100% of this mixture" does not mean of the the undiluted compound.
"The mixture ratio was chosen according to the doses of each individual pesticide that produced no observable effects on pregnancy length and pup survival in our laboratory" Please note the use of "no observable effects".
--------------------------
Comment on "That's even assuming you ever inhale or bathe in the stuff."

I feel that the main concern should be that the use of tebuconazole is adding an endocrine disrupting chemical to the environment.
-------------------------------
The full Conclusion section from the full paper
Int J Androl. 2010 Apr;33(2):pages 434-42.
is: "In conclusion, the findings from these range-finding
studies showed that combined exposure to the five pesti-cides induced marked adverse effects on parturition and
pup survival at doses where the individual pesticides
appear to induce no such effects. The significance of these
findings for human risk assessment must be emphasized
because they clearly indicate that risk assessment based on
single endocrine disrupters alone underestimates the risk
for adverse effects when exposure is to several pesticides
with common effect outcomes regardless of mechanism.
The sexual differentiation of the offspring was also
significantly affected. However, based on a range-finding
study with a limited number of litters, only cautious
conclusions can be drawn. Consequently, sexual differen-tiation of the offspring, as well as the predictability of the combination effects based on dose-additivity modelling, is currently studied more thoroughly in a large mixture
dose-response study in our laboratory."

This was just a really bad year for rose problems. Try not to wet the new leaves and the old sick ones will eventually drop away or sometimes I just cut them off with scissors after I have as many new mature leaves as I am planning to remove. Don't pull them from the stem, sometimes they get injured that way.