Hadn't thought about the hedges. That's a problem!

Jeri

Pre trip with Google map perhaps. Not with map but with satellite.

I have seen my gardens from satellite one year when the photos were taken at first bloom and I could tell the fence line roses' colors. (We call the fence line roses "roses that don't play well with others - instead of calling them too big to be in 'conventional' beds.)

Anyway, maybe a satellite view might be fun.

Ann,

I tried that already, there is such a big cover of oaks and other trees that it is really hard to see much more than green and spanish style roofs.

From the street it is pretty much a wall of green with stone walls and big gates. Very private (Guess Oprah does not want you looking in her windows....lol)

All I could see today was icebergs by the gate/mailboxes. Glimpses of Cecile Brunner over hedges and a couple of walls with White Eden on them.

I know by the Biltmore there is a house with nice HT roses that you can see from the beach. But guessing it will mostly be a drive by hedges.

I have returned!

And yes I did see a once bloomer scattered here and there. It's red petals sneaking in with the masses is of white iceberg. I even took a couple of phone shot photos of it but did not note the locations of the good doctor. hehehe

Other than if I thought Cecile Brunner climbing was not her and in actuality something different. Other than HT's and I think a backyard Sally Holmes peaking over a fence, I saw nothing that once could not pick up at the local home depot as landscaping. One would think that the streets had a code that they had to pick between a dozen plants for all landscaping purposes.

I have no doubt that there are some wonderful roses of all varieties well hidden behind those tall hedges and carefully curving driveways so no one uninvited gets a glimpse. I did see one gentlemen out tending to his HT's and stopped to tell him how nice they look (thinking of Kitty and no one mentioning them)

That was nice of you. I do wish we could see beyond those hedges. I still believe there are older roses in some of those properties.

Jeri

Next approach: find out who their gardeners are.

I do remember feeling somewhat foolish when I stopped to talk to the nice lady really working (dirty knees and all) in a garden with "garden of the month such and such garden club" sign beside her when I first moved to New Orleans. She quickly explained to me that it wasn't her garden, she was just the paid gardener. Being a bit of a rebel, I told her it was her garden, she just didn't own the land it was created on.

Anyway, there are probably several paid gardeners. Finding them......maybe a wholesale nursery supplier would be a place to start.

The local big commercial (San Marcos Growers) nursery sells:

Rosa Altissimo
Rosa 'Anemone'
Rosa banksiae 'Lutea'
Rosa Burgundy Iceberg â¢
Rosa californica 'Elsie'
Rosa Cl. 'Cécile Brünner'
Rosa Cl. 'Iceberg'
Rosa 'Cocktail'
Rosa Coral Driftî
Rosa 'Cornelia'
Rosa 'Francis E. Lester'
Rosa 'Happenstance'
Rosa Home Run
Rosa 'Iceberg'
Rosa Ivory Driftî
Rosa laevigata Cherokee Rose
Rosa Lemon Splash
Rosa 'Mermaid'
Rosa 'Mme. Alfred Carrière'
Rosa 'Mutabilis'
Rosa Peach Driftî
Rosa Ralph's Creeper
Rosa 'Glowing Carpet'
Rosa 'Sally Holmes' F
Rosa 'Sea Foam'
Rosa 'Sombreuil'
Rosa 'The Fairy'

The other local commercial smaller nursery does not carry roses other than Iceberg.

I know some of the local gardening companies, but honestly they are probably the ones that are proud of the magic white rose with the red rose canes.

I think the better thing is if a homeowner contacts a rosarian like Jeri to survey their roses (through a rose or garden society)

Oddly enough, this story on a hike through Montecito was posted today. It is probably better to look for the trails and hike than drive. (but my foot very much disagrees)

Here is a link that might be useful: Urban Hikers on Edhat

This is all very interesting, and I appreciate your efforts, kippy. I couldn't help but notice that the "big local commercial" seller of roses-ha-had a total of 27 or so roses on their list. Here in good, old Boise, Idaho, we are privileged to have the best seller of every kind of plant you can imagine, not just roses, and they still have 252 kinds of beautiful roses in five gallon pots (no Knocks Outs on this list). They will special order for you, too, and once you have purchased your roses, will keep them in a separate greenhouse until you wish to plant them. I would expect that such a wealthy enclave as Montecito would have sellers offering a huge and varied list of roses for their customers. What's going on with this? Diane

Diane,

The big rose source here is down south, Otto and Son's, in Filmore. If you tell your local guy to pick up a couple of roses, he is probably using his commercial account at SM or Knapps. If your landscape designer is buying (or personal rosarian) they would probably order from Otto's.

I think the reason for the lack of variety at front gates is the property owners want the private gardens nice, but the street side looking water wise and rather non nondescript-no neon sign ==> Oprahs House or ==> Robin Williams lives here...etc.

Thanks for this research, Kippy! I wonder if it would be worthwhile to put a small ad in the Montecito Journal to ask if any homeowners have old roses on their property they'd like us to research for them? If we're lucky, who knows what could be found? I live in Santa Barbara and would be glad to tag along or help next time you're rose rustling up here. Jeri swears there may be undiscovered roses left in Franceschi park but we haven't been able to find them. Foundies "Benny Lopez" and "De La Vina Mystery" have both been discovered in Santa Barbara so there may be more.
I just planted 'Montecito' rose today - it was in my last order from Vintage (sigh - so sad) and is VERY vigorous. Since it's a locally hybridized rose (pre 1913) I guessed I should try to keep as many roses with local roots alive as I can. I know M is a huge hybrid gigantea, and am running it up a tree and still I know I'll have to be stern with it.

Linda

I would love to hear how your Montecito does. I was tempted, but really wanted to see the actual one first.

I thought "the Urban Hikers" from the local website Edhat might be good ones to approach. Or even making the rose hunt on estates option more well known.

Urban Hikers sounds like a great idea, Kippy.

Linda, Jeri and Rose hunters,

Do you see anything of interest in the link attached from the Urban Hikers?

Here is a link that might be useful: Urban Hikers Montecito Hedge Rows Report

Kippy -- I haven't explored the Urban Hikers link yet -- but I can tell you that there is (or was, just a few years back) a HUGE climbing white single rose which goes up trees near the driveway in to Franchesci Park.

We didn't know whether it was 'Montecito' or R. gigantea, but the best propagators who were with us that day were unable to root cuttings (achieved by one member actually climbing a tree) -- which led us to think it might be gigantea, rather than 'Montecito'.

USUALLY when we go to SB, we go in the motorhome, and if you've been up there, you'll know that the road up there isn't really MH-friendly -- so we have not been back.

That was ONE of the roses found there. The other grows in the midst of "jungle" down the hill from the old house, but above the road that circles past. You cannot park on that road, unless you're feeling suicidal -- so I did not get to see that rose.

But I could tell someone where to look. :-)

Jeri

Sounds like I might need to visit the park with my camera

I wish you would!

And I can tell you that we were there in early- to mid-July, and I recall being surprised that the immensely-tall-white-thing was blooming. Not HEAVILY, but blooming.

Let me know when you're going to go, and I'll tell you where on the property the second rose was growing. Under ordinary circumstances, you wouldn't find it.

Jeri

Do you think tomorrow would be too early for the tall white thing?

No. I think we saw the end of the flush, so you may catch it right as it comes to full.

Kippy. You will find the tall white thing immediately next to the downsloping driveway into the park. There are trees to your left, going in, including at least one tall palm. It's climbing up those trees, right to the top.

If you are standing at the base of that plant, looking toward the house, turn to your left and walk around the house, then forward, down the hill, through the trees.

The rose was upright, and almost to the bottom of the hill, where the trees meet the road. You will understand why you can't park a car there! I couldn't see much of it from a car at the bottom, but I'd say it was pink.

The people who made it down there opined that it might be Arillaga -- I wasn't going to try it -- so this is second-hand.

It obviously got no care at all, and for all I know, it could be gone. So, given the mentality of Parks & Rec., could the tall white thing.

Jeri

I went today. Walked the length of the driveway looking up the trees as I went. Walked the trails on the hillside that were cleared enough to pass (Guessing a lot of homeless up there by the quantity of 40oz bottles in the brush)

To put it nicely, the city should be ashamed to call it a city park. I have to wonder who has been "caring" for the grounds. Looks like mostly dead invasive plants. I did not see anything climbing the trees on the left of the entry drive. Guessing either an uniformed parks employee or a fire fighting crew hacked out any thing in an effort to reduce fires. (could also have happened in any of the past fires in the last few years where crews come up with chain saws and clear defensible space asap) I could see where some of the cacti had been burnt a long time ago. There might be a rose left on that hillside some where. If you come to town in the RV, I will drive you up there and we can looks some more.

I did see what I would guess is a cl Cecile Brunner in a younger oak tree planted on the inside of a neighboring properties fence. The stump of the rose was a good 3", you can see where some one it trying to get rid of it and cutting canes (there are dead ones swinging from the tree) There was one little blown bud that had some pink and was maybe 1.5" wide.

I also noticed the left side of the drive in has some kind of rose that they had recently hedge trimmed and clearly hack canes off regularly. No buds left on it.

With any luck, next year I can get you photos of the roses in bloom....from my house :)

Yes, this park is really in disgraceful condition. We saw a Cecile B near the house but didn't see the other roses you mention - glad you found those. I hope it might be possible when Clay and Jeri come to town (Clay is speaking at SBRS on June 13, so that might be one opportunity?) for you all to take a look. I know Jeri saw some roses on a previous visit - hope they haven't died in the meantime! Franceschi is such an important historical figure here in SB and it's so sad his work, garden and home are falling to ruins.

It sounds very much like the two interesting roses we saw a few summers back ARE gone. And yes -- as Linda mentions, the house itself is also in dire condition.

Linda, we did see some Cecile Brunners out in front of the house. I suspect they may have been added later -- the plants didn't look that old.

Thanks for looking, Kippy. I really feel sad.

Jeri

Kippy -- I went through the link, and didn't find anything to the point, but more research is needed.

I need to go back to Victoria Padilla's "Southern California Gardens" (you need a copy of that!) and compare it with this information.

Also, don't discount the possibility that SOME hedges could be roses. At the San Juan Bautista State Historic Park, I passed the Castro-Breen Adobe many times before I discovered that the impeccably-clipped hedge out front was a rose.

Then, we all spent a few years debating the identity of the hedge rose, before finally agreeing that this was R. brunonii.

From there, with a few historic photos for reference, we decided it was probable that R. brunonii was planted there after the death of Francis Lester, with roses from his nursery. It was almost certainly planted as R. moschata, because those roses were confused in commerce, at that time.

Jeri