I can't tell you whether or not these roses will bloom for you.

I can tell you that we grew Mme. Hardy here, at the Southern California coast (where our normal number of chill hours is something like zero).
In the third or fourth year, the HUGE plant it had become produced one exquisite bloom. ONE.
Gallicas we have grown here generally grow well for a few years, and bloom modestly. Then they start to "grow backwards," bloom less and less, and left to themselves would probably die.

FWIW, by contrast, 'Mme. Plantier' grows AND blooms well here.

Jeri Jennings
Coastal Ventura Co., Southern California

Thanks. This regression "growing backwards" is fascinating. I wonder why that happens. I have read that Mme Plantier is one of the few albas, damasks? that can be grown in the South. I did not realize it looked so much like Mme Hardy. Maybe I will try it.

I think the bloom is a bit smaller, but otherwise, they're similar. The foliage is different tho. M.P. is easy to spot once you know her, and we find her in almost every old deserted NoCal cemetery. That's where mine came from -- from the grave of a 25y-o Cornish-born miner named Emanuel Penrose. "They" say that M.P. has some Noisette in her background, so she tolerates a warmer environment.

But heck -- I'll sing this song all day:
What you need, in FL, is Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes.

Jeri

I have had no luck at getting bloom, or not much from either of the two roses you mentioned and when I did, like the Gallicas, Damasks, Albas, etc., the 3-4 blooms I get will be destroyed with a spring rain or a late freeze, or worse yet - hot weather. I put them in the same category with peonies --- too little space in my garden to grow something that blooms once every few years only to have it destroyed by weather before I even get to photograph it. They're outta here, gone!

***But heck -- I'll sing this song all day:
What you need, in FL, is Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes***

It seems to me I've heard that song before
It's from an old familiar score
I know it well, that melody

Please have them play it again
And then I'll remember just when
I heard that lovely song before ;-)

Smiles,

Bill

Madame Plantier is thought to be an alba noisette by many, probably the reason why it can be grown in the south. It grows well in Sweden, too, and it is my favourite among my 8 albas, also because of the site, near the balcony where I can feel its wafting scent, fresher and less sweet to my nose than the damask scent.

Marianne in Sweden

***But heck -- I'll sing this song all day:
What you need, in FL, is Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes***

So what you're saying is, "You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes you might find You get what you need". I think I've heard that before.

Sure.
I wanted Old Roses.
After years of experimenting with the wrong Old Roses, I accepted what Bob Edberg told me. That I would succeed IF I planted Old Roses that are suited to my conditions.

Likewise Austins. You do not want to know how many of them we've planted and dug up. Few remain here, but those that do ARE suited to this area. Other modern and classic Shrubs, tho, are terrific for us. Sally Holmes, Lavender Dream, Indian Love Call, Flower Girl . . .

if you really want to ENJOY your roses, grow what works where you are. Just MHO.

Jeri

You know the Austin thing reminds me, when I lived in Pennsylvania, and was just starting out growing roses, I planted a bunch of Austins and I did very little that you are supposed to do, and they did great. they looked like the pictures in books. Now I have an Austin on fortuniana, it's huge and does fine in the heat. I have two on own roots, Molineux is prolific as all get out, and the Prince is disappointing so far. I really think there are so many variables and the rootstock is something we don't think about too much but may make as much difference as anything.

too little space in my garden to grow something that blooms once every few years only to have it destroyed by weather before I even get to photograph it.

That sums up my attitude towards saucer magnolias (Magnolia x soulangiana)! LOVELY in one or two years out of five - for perhaps one week - and then they drop TONS of brown, slimy petals on the sidewalks and the lawn and the ground - unless they do it sooner because of rain. or late frost.........

BLECH!

I've never grown Centifolias or Damasks, but I don't think of them as "Southern" roses.