I'm planting some climbers by a downspout as well. I bought a short plastic extension to direct the spouting flow away from the rose planting area. I don't feel comfortable with all the bacteria/algae that grows in gutters washing down into the rose. Just my personal belief though. I'm actually in the same spot with the hose problem as well. Of course, I could just buy a longer rose, but I probably won't. I just take a 2 gal watering can and give my Graham Thomas about half a gallon of water everyday. If it was one of my climbers that I am planting, I would probably bump it up to a full gallon and water a little bit outside the drip line as well.

You are both watering too much but for different reasons.

You want your roses to go deep for their water--better, stronger roots with more even temperatures. Unless it is very hot and dry, once a week is sufficient for anything bigger than bands. 1" of water penetrates approximately four inches of soil (less or more if clay or sand). If you started with a rose in a three gallon pot, for instance, which is about 12" deep, you will need 3"of water. The easiest way is to build a well wall around the rose at the drip line about three inches high. Fill the well, let it absorb. Fill it again, or partly, only if it is a very large rose.

4-5 gallons is way too much, even once a week, unless it's a huge rambler. Watering every day keeps the roots close to the surface and makes them very vulnerable and prevents them from anchoring the rose securely.

I agree that the watering keeps the roots closer to the surface, but for my english rose Graham Thomas, a half gallon really isn't that much IMO. If it rains, I won't water or if I feel it doesn't need it, then I won't water, but on most sunny days, Graham gets a half gallon. Plus, Graham is coming into his first flush and is newly planted. This summer I am going to let Graham dry a little, so his roots can dig farther down to harden him up for the winter, but as of right now, 2-2.5 gal/week(including rain) for Graham doesn't sound excessive to me.

I'll probably follow a similar regimine for the New Dawn and Ramblin Red I'm getting, but for just a shorter period. I agree that you need to water in accordance with size, but once the roots get a little bit of a hold, I try to get the rose to perk up and get some growth and then as it grows, I tend to water with the same amount to let the roots dig deeper for the summer heat near the surface, then pick the watering up as the rose gets larger, and then drop off the amount of watering come fall to let the roots dig deeper.

I suppose a lot of watering in itself is a pretty judgemental call based upon the specific circumstances of what's planted nearby, how much rain has fallen, how many consecutive days has there been without rain, humidity, amount of mulching, soil type, temperature, etc.

To be more specific. Graham Thomas had about 2 weeks of no rain and mostly sunny 75-85 degree weather, so after applying Rose Tone, I watered him with about a half gallon everyday(no rain). The past couple days have been more humid and cloudy with mid 70s temps and some light rain, so I havn't water Graham Thomas at all until there is another mid 80's sunny day and it appears the soil may need it. Graham Thomas isn't planted around anything nearby, although there are 3 flowering pear trees about 8 meters away that takes up some water supply, but not much. My new climbers will receive similar treatment until after their first flush and summer rolls around when I will start conditioning their roots down deeper somewhat...which tends to happen during hot 90+ degree Ohio summers anyways.

I can never judge if they're getting an inch or a foot, so I use the old "stick your fingers in the dirt method"...if it's damp, they're fine, if it's dry, water...I just stick my fingers in 4 or 5 inches and see what's going on..I tell myself that I'm aerating at the same time..Donna

Forgot to say...try not to get too hung up on a gallon or a half gallon, just whatever it takes to give them a good drink, then dry out in between..Donna

If you're worried about the amount of water and if it gets deep enough place a five gallon bucket with a nail hole in the very bottom on the side. Put the amount of water you want to give it into the bucket. All the water will soak into the soil and none will run off. You can determine exactly how much water you give each bush.
Too much or not enough water depends a lot on the soil type you have. Clay based soil don't need as much as sandy soils. Mine is sandy and drains well. It dries out quickly also so I have to water more often than someone with clay soil.

Water from downspouts? Use it. Don't waste such a valuable source. Many people use rain runoff as drinking water in areas where wells can't be drilled. It runs into a cistern. I have 4" corrugated pipe with holes, attached to my downspouts so water from the roof can be piped to the areas under the roof overhang. Otherwise this area stays dry. None runs out on the driveway or lawn. You'll get absolutely no harm from roof ruinoff.

Thanks for the advice! We just planted yesterday so I've only watered once. As it is rainy today, and probably tomorrow, I won't water until early next week most likely. It seems as though I treat the rose like I would any other shrub. I guess I'm a bit nervous about it because I've always heard that roses are so touchy, you need to treat them specially, etc. If that's not the case I'll just relax about it.

I read on these forums that Rose-tone is a good fertilizer, but many use fish emulsion. I use fish emulsion for foliage plants because of the nitrogen content, if I use it on roses won't that stifle the blooming?

I plan on fertilizing for the first time in about six weeks after planting, which should I use, Rose-tone or fish emulsion?

Sorry for all these newbie questions,there has always been this mystique about roses for me and I want to get it right. Thanks!

To check the water situation what I do besides the 'finger' method is to take a garden stake and poke it down into the ground near the rose (not too close to hurt the roots) then pull it up and read like a dip stick.

I like the dipstick idea a lot. It seems my soil has settled a lot in my new raised bed and I can't just stick my finger very deep easily (already broke a soil tester! The dirt held on and the probe pulled out of base :-() It's frustrating because I worked the soil like crazy. It holds water well and so far it doesn't seem I am getting wet feet syndrome. I am miss overwaterer, so I am retraining myself. Dipstick will get a lot of use! Thanks!

I have several rain barrels and also try to keep three 35 gal. garbage cans full. Two climbers also get some of the run-off from the rain barrels.

I usually water when it rains with a very long hose hooked up to one of the rain barrels after the storage cans are full. If the roses die, the store is still open.

OK! I lied. If we are having a drought I will take pity on them. I try and keep everything well mulched.

I am going to try and keep burlap on my compost piles to keep them wet enough so I do not end up with as much sawdust.

I water by hand from the garbage cans with 5 gal buckets. As I get older I may break down and use the city water, or if I lived in a drier area I might have no other choice. Grey water helps.

a Cheap Chicken in Iowa

I agree with catsrose. I only water established roses when there's been weeks without rain. I think many new gardeners kill their plants with kindness.

Pieheart--

I'd ignore most generalizations about watering, because watering depends on the soil texture, the weather, and the state of the plant.

Your newly planted rose is small. It cannot use 4-5 gallons a week. That is how much you would apply to a square yard for a good-sized plant in hot weather. I give newly planted roses from pots 1/2 gal every other day for a while. As the rose grows and the weather warms, it will need more water per week but less frequency. In two years, it will have a wide root system and should be able to do without irrigation (if you get 30+ inches a year). But you may want to keep watering until it approaches the size you want.

As to frequency generally-- water light or shallow soils 1/2" every three days, but water heavy soils 1" once a week. This is for sunny, fairly hot summer weather and leafed-out plants in the eastern half of the country. In spring or fall, less is needed.

An inch is roughly 1/2 gallon per square foot.

Thank you michaelg!.

Sorry Pieheart,

I usualy sign off as Foghorn Leghorn so people ignore me.

Thank goodness there are sane people on this forum.

Welcome to the madness!

Doug

> for my english rose Graham Thomas,
> a half gallon really isn't that
> much IMO.

*** This is one of the reasons why I would not, now, plant any more Austin roses here. They are very THIRSTY cultivars.

Most of our roses are in the Tea/China/Noisette range -- many are "found," and all of those seem to take the challenge of reduced watering quite well.
All but the Austins, which clearly need extra water to succeed.
The only good thing I can say about their water needs is that they seem to accept dishwater with no problems.

Jeri

Ok, I'm confused. You really need to water anything in north Jersey now? I moved a ton of stuff about a month ago, and so far haven't had to water any of it besides watering it in at the time. At this point, I'm not sure I'm going to have to water any of it since it's probably reasonably well settled in at this point.

The biggest problem with drought around here by far is people who don't believe the plants can live on their own, and train the roots to be so close to the surface that nothing can survive without an almost continual artificial water supply.

If you have very good drainage it doesn't matter how much you over water but why waste the water? And it is not a matter of putting down a certain amount like a gallon per rose but putting down the proper amount for each rose. How do you know what that amount is? First you can keep a rain guage in you garden. Second you can use a soil moisture guage and third you can use a post hole digger to dig a 12-15 inch hole in some non critical to see how moist it is down there. But this still doesn't answer the question as to how much for each rose. The answer is simple. The rose will tell you.

Many years ago I had a small rose garden with only about 100 roses and the watering system was soaker hose buried about 6-8 inches. This is the best system because 100 percent of the water gets to the roots and none is wasted but you don't know how much you put down. So I experimented and found that a relatively short time of watering like maybe 3-4 hours was all that was necessary to make them look fabulous during the hottest days of summer. Of course if some don't look great you can give them a little extra by hand.

That's all there is to it. Practically no work and perfect results every time.

As to the matter of rainwater off a roof causing problems ...

Out here in CA, most shingles you see are asphault.
We directed water from our roof for decades into an area where a lot of ice-plant was growing. It thrived on it.
Then, we got a new roof.
The following winter, the runoff from that roof killed that iceplant dead -- and believe me, that's not an easy thing to do.
So, if your roof is old, or is wood shakes, or something else, it's probably OK. But not all roofing materials are benign.

Jeri

Hello Pieheart,

In a short time, you will learn the nature of your local soil and how well it holds moisture just by digging and looking. Because it is handy, a pocket knife is my primary tool to dig into soil a couple of inches to find moisture, and I use the finger test on potted plants. Once in a while a moisture tester gives me a double check on potted plants that want lots of moisture.

Unless your soil will not let water drain, it is difficult to overwater a new rose. Michael has done the math so you can develop a regimen that fits your needs.

Rainwater is a precious resource in my semiarid climate. It collects nitrogen and minerals from the air and deposits them in the soil. It is common practice to water houseplants with rainwater collected from roofs, and plants are considerably healthier with rainwater than tapwater.

Gary

Reading this thread is the most thought I've given to watering in years. If there is a drought, say more than a week with no rain, I might add some water. I don't measure.

I don't think established plants, roses or anything else, need to be pampered.

Spend your time building good soil.

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