I only have experience with clay soil, but in the first year with clay soil I usually put in around 25% peat moss with less in subsequent years. Sometimes with very clay soil I use even more. Peat moss in clay soil helps immensely with breaking up the clay. Water retention isn't usually the issue with clay.

I'm not so sure about sandy soil. Since peat moss has almost none of it's own nutrients I would probably go with a 50/50 mix of peat moss/manure or compost, and then mix that in as the 25%. The compost or manure will help add nutients to the soil, and peat moss has the ability of holding nutrients that would normally leach right out of sandy soil.

Just my amateur opinion.

In this article, in an issue of Kitchen Garden published by Taunton Press, Keith Baldwin, a professor of soil science at North Carolina State University, says that to even begin to make clay soils into something useful you need to add 8 inches of peat moss tilled into the top 8 inches of your clay.
My experience with my Lake Michigan beach sand is it takes the same amount of organic matter, compost, shredded leaves, etc., to fill in the pore spaces between the sand particles so moisture and nutrients can be help in the plants root zone.
However, since peat moss is a non renewable resource and the harvesting of it is not sustainable its use should not be considered by those with better, renewable, sustainable resources around them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Peat Moss in soil

Please, must we keep flogging this dead horse? Since North American participants to this forum are almost always referring to peat generated from Canadian sources, the question of renewability/sustainability is a non-issue. As has been pointed out time and time again with adequate substantiation, the Canadian peat industry IS sustainable and Canadian sources of peat ARE renewable, although not immediately so - it does take from 7-15 years after initial harvesting for seeded, farmed peat bogs to regenerate sufficient product to make a subsequent harvesting practical. Hardly the centuries those uninformed about this industry throw about.

My personal choice would be to add some other form of organic matter - like compost - before opting for peat, as peat has virtually no nutritive value and offers little in the way of encouragement for the microherd and offers pH challenges as well, but in situations where other choices are not immediately available, it is a perfectly reasonable amendment to increase soil moisture holding capacity. One should not be made to feel guilty that they are somehow irreparably damaging the environment by using peat - we are all doing far more harmful things to contribute to global warming or destroying ecosystems without even giving them a blink of the eye or a second thought.

Here here gardengal48...
Anyway I grew up just outside of Portland, Maine and we put a TON of peat into the soil over the years, it sure needed it. In retrospect I wish I'd known more about compost, we had plenty of compostables that got away...

Where I live now in MA we have "Paxton soil" which is pretty amazing stuff. I can't believe how fast my radishes and spinich are progressing... We've already eaten the first run of radishes, should have more in a couple weeks...
I've learned that with seeds I have to water every single day though or they don't sprout.

gardengal, wherever have you found information tht peat moss can be renewed in 7 to 15 years? Everything I have seen about peat moss, from people that really know about peat moss, says it takes hundreds, if not thousands, of years to renew a peat bog.

kimmsr, all I can say is that you need to do further research. The Canadian peat industry, together with the Canadian goverment and international conservation groups have been working on "farming" peat bogs for a good number of years. First, working peatlands are not harvested to the extent where they are fully depleted - a thick layer of existing peat is left in place to become the seedbed for regrowth. And previously harvested peatlands have been seeded, fertilized and maintained in just the same manner other important agricultural crops are addressed and the bogs are regenerating rapidly, often in as short a period as 5-7 years. Obviously that is a bit soon for it to be a harvestable crop but since active harvestable bogs produce for as long as 50 years, there is considerable leeway available before regenerated bogs are needed to be harvested again. Those that have been allowed/encouraged to regenerate resume the appearance, function and character of virgin bogs in as little as 20 years.

Here is a link that might be useful: peat IS a sustainable crop

Thanks, gardengal! I have extremely heavy clay and have always depended on peat as part of my layering. When I heard that peat was being overharvested, I was bumming. I'm glad to find out I can still use it.

Val

Hi valereee...use peat moss to your hearts content...there is no fear of ever running the supply out. Those that think so are willfully ignorant...Franklin

It should be said that peat bogs in some places such as in the UK were overharvested in the past. If you are in the UK, you should stay away from using peat moss.

However, I notice that you are from Ohio so most likely your peat moss comes from Canadian or US sources. There are no problems with using this peat moss.

Do you have anything that is not from the industry that has a vested interest in proving that what they are doing is okay? Believing the material put out by those with vested interests is a lot like believing Bayer CropScience, Dow Chemical, Monsanto and the others that their products are really very innocuous and will not harm the environment we live in.
Give me access to information from someone not tied to this industry that proves your point as I have provided you with information from sources with no vested interest in the product that says peat moss is a non renewable resource, world wide, that harvesting of peat moss destroys habitat, that harvesting peat moss is harmful to the environment.

You are enjoying this, aren't you Franklin? :)

This is of interest to lots of us. I have 2' deep raised beds to fill, if I can use peat as a filler, it will save on other materials. I have others, such as leaves, wood chips(aged) chicken manure, horse manure--but at my age, its just easier to "dump" a bag of peat to use as a filler-since I have 30 beds. So-- I too, am interested.

Hi kimpa...yes...a little humour in what is an otherwise drab and dreary world...Franklin

Kimmsr--Do you have a link supporting the nonrenewable nature of peat moss? I know you've posted them in the past, but I'd like to read up on it again. If possible, can you provide one that addresses the peat bogs in Canada? I know the bogs in the UK have been overharvested, but I'm interested in anything regarding the Canadian bogs, since that's where the peat moss in the US comes from.

I haven't used peat moss in years, but I stopped before I heard of the debate about whether it's renewable. I stopped using it because of what happens when it dries out (and there's no way to avoid that here).

I'm not sure I want to do all your research for you, kimmsr, but there are plenty of sources out there that support all the sustainability claims made by the Canadian peat industry but have no "vested interest" in it other than environmental conservation and managing peat bogs and their ecosystems in the most sustainable manner. None of these are commercial operations in that they profit from the peat industry but are comprised of various international conservation groups, scientific associations, goverment agencies and universities. Most of these are working in concert with the Canadian peat industry - an internationally recognized leader in this field - to support and develop the sustainability of this resource, not only in Canada but across the world.

Some of the organizations involved:
- International Peat Society
- International Society of Horticultural Science
- North American Wetlands Conservation Council
- International Mire Conservation Group
- Environment Canada
- the Canadian Government
- Lavalle University
- University of Guelph

Your apparent obstinance in accepting what is a widely held and openly acknowledged fact that the Canadian peat industry IS sustainable and the resource renewable is somewhat akin to those doubting Thomases that held tightly to the convention that the world was flat despite Magellan's, Columbus's, et al proof to the contrary it was not. How much proof/documentation does it take?

Everyone of the organizations listed has a vested interest in promoting the peat moss industry, not good places to get unbiased information.
It does not take much proof/documentation at all just unbiased information, information sources without a vested interest in the product.

How one can interpret conservation groups or scientific associations to have a bias towards or a vested interest in the peat industry is a bit of a mystery to me. But I guess if you want to persist in adhering to your old fashioned and uninformed beliefs despite ample evidence to the contrary, that is entirely up to you.

Hi gardengal...from what you say on "My Page" you should know what your talking about...thats refreshing to hear especially on a site where one hears so much voodoo and witchcraft concerning gardening ideas...the organic forum is even worse...:-) Now if I were just half as articulate as you are...but then again with some... one pretty much wastes their time trying to articulate about certain subjects. Anyway...thanks for the clarity on the subject of peat moss...Franklin

- North American Wetlands Conservation Council
- International Mire Conservation Group
- Environment Canada
- the Canadian Government
- Lavalle University
- University of Guelph

kimmsr,
How can you interpret environmental groups and universities as being industry shills? Is this another one of your conspiracy theories?

Hi hamiltongardener...has kimmsr put forth other conspiracy theories? I'm not on this forum all the time so I probably missed them. I always thought that kimmsr just spent too much time standing in the sun...and his jock was too tight...:-) Franklin

Everyone here has their strengths, and personally I've learned something or other from every one of the regular posters.

This is starting to look like people ganging up on one member. To do so over a question of whether peat is renewable or not .... ??

Hey oldmainer,

Most times I see kimmsr arguing with others about one aspect of gardening or another on here, I end up reading a weird tidbit of information from him, sometimes with the claim that misinformation is spread by people who stand to benefit from it. Everything from GMO plants to peat moss. I think kimmsr just has the idea that anyone who has gardening practices that are different than his are just doing it wrong, and are doing it wrong because they have been fed this misinformation.

This time, it looks like he's saying that conservation groups and universities are the ones benefitting. I really find that one hard to swallow.

Who cares if peat moss is renewable or not! It costs money! Are you rich and lazy! Every tree cutting company in the world is looking for someplace to dump their wood chips and grindings. Wood chips last for years breaking down in the soil keeping it aerated and holding moisture for micro-organisms to prosper. Worms love them! Big wood chips last for up to 4 years, sawdust will last for up to 2 years, leaves will only last for 1 good season. All will help the soil.

Certain questions on this forum are going to generate strong opinions regardless of who asks the question. Franklin stated as much in one of his replies. Anyone with time well spent in this community knows how "Old Mainer" feels about peat moss and the benefits of using it. Thus, his question was loaded from the start. Shame on you Franklin for getting members all fired up about something you have always used and will continue to use regardless of what is said.

Questions concerning peat moss, soil tests, mulch, compost tea, using unfinished compost, and tilling the soil are but a few of topics that will get the same reply from certain members despite the consequences of weather their view is correct or not. "Lets beat the dead horse again" exercise has to be endured to protect those who are new to the forum in spite of its silliness. Those who are here to help will always step forward whenever the "dogma bus" rolls into the forumÂ

Blutranes

Hi blutranes...your right blutranes. I do stir the pot at times...but for a reason. I believe it helps those who are truly ignorant about some things concerning gardening...helps to get their heads screwed on right and headed in the right direction. Ayup...I also rub some the wrong way on purpose...now and again... cos they are smug and arrogant...and are asking for it. Then you have those that bring up certain subjects every now and then...perhaps before you came on the scene...concerning dew ponds that fill themselves up...and back yard compost piles that get so hot they set themselves on fire...that kind of BS just is a nice target to generate a little humour...as our english friends would say...:-) So if I'm alittle caustic at times and do alittle poking...just remember to laugh and take things with tongue in cheek...and you also might learn something in the end...:-) Franklin

Why can't I get that old Beatle song out of my head right now?

If peat moss is a renewable resource, and the harvesting of it is sustainable, then so would petroleum products and coal, all we need do is provide the right conditions in the peat bogs to change them into petroleum or coal, or even diamonds.
I see no conspiracy just people going about their business as usual. The sources sited are suspect because each and everyone has accepted large dollars from the industry to do research which is then owned by the industry which can release or withhold the reports as the industry desires. Have any pharaceutical companies withheld research that tended to show their products either did not quite do what they were supposed to or created more hazards to the users than the studies they released showed? Only when someone with no finanacial ties to the industry (Cleveland Clinic for one) did the truth about that get publicized.
Over the years I have noticed that when the proponents of one side of a debate feel they are loosing they resort to personal atracks on the opposition, using terms such as ignorant, smug, arrogant. It is too bad that some cannot stay on subject.

I understand your concerns Kimm and can only say the Canadian government has accepted the numbers given in the links provided by many members.

Is the Canadian government corrupt relative to this subject. I don't know. Probably not IMHO.

I find your posts to be spot on the VAST majority of the time. This was also the case when I used to frequent this site more often many years ago.

So, don't get offended, I just disagree with you on this one. No biggie.

I do agree that leaves, mulched grass clippings, compost, properly aged manure and wood chips are GREAT stuff.