Man, you're lucky they didn't kill you. Just forget that pile exists. They're probably yellow jackets and they're ferocious. Let that pile rot naturally and eventually, come winter, the bees will relocate.

I don't know about bees in a compost pile but my grandma had a nest of them in the ground in her backyard last year. Couldn't mow the grass in that area because they would come out and attack. They left or hibernated when it got cold and now this year there's a nest in the front yard. Oy vey!

Val

They sound like ground bees which can be viscious and inflict very painful stings. A friend of mine and his wife in Oklahoma got into some while raking leaves in their yard. They ran, he got about 8 stings which he said were about the most painful bee stings that he had ever had. She tripped and fell and wound up having to have an elbow replacement.

I have found two nests in my yard over the years and flooded them out with a garden hose at night. To do that you would have to actually find the hole where they go in and out of the ground to stick the hose into. There will still be some around the next day. One that I dug up had several round nests stacked and separated about a half inch from each other on little pegs that they had made. The discs were in descending size, the largest being about as big around as a dinner plate. I did not see any honey stored anywhere, just larvae in all them cells, like a wasp or yellow jackets nest. I took it into the garden to show to my neighbor Tom and left it laying on a concrete block turned up on end. Two days later there were still bees buzzing around that thing. I figured out that they were ones that were hatching out, or coming out of those cells. They look just like a honey bee to me, but are a little bit smaller, and they are good pollinators. I had to get rid of them because they were in a bad place making it unsafe for pets and small kids. Otherwise, I probably would have left them alone.

Here is a link to some information about them but I do not know about their recommendation of using a torch on them. Especially around them leaves. A google search would turn up a bunch more info.
Bill P.

If you could describe them, even if only in part, it would help us guide you toward an appropriate decision.

Bumblebees are likely to be in compost piles and leaf piles. They are fuzzy overall. These will protect their next if you disturb it, but the colony will die by the end of the year. So, leave the pile be until next year.

If yellowjackets, they typically nest in pre-made holes, such as mouse holes. They are yellow & black & glossy/shiny. They can be very nasty when protecting a nest. The management is the same as for the bumbles because they will die by the end of the year.

If ground nesting bees, they are solitary girls of various kinds. Each one makes her own nest, the new generation comes out next year. Although a number of ground nesters may be nesting side-by-side, they lack the nasty characteristics of yellowjackets.

Honey bees don't nest in the ground.

It is highly unlikely they were "bees" although they may well have been Yellow Jackets, a wasp. The Yellow Jackets would very likely take up residence in a compost pile, no bee would do that.

I don't know much about bees but I do know that they
weren't fuzzy bumblbees and they were quite a bit
smaller than wasps. Running for my life doesn't do much to enhance my observation skills so I didn't come away with much more information than thant.

Jean001 they did seem to be puh-lenty aggressive in that they swarmed me immediately and stung me six or seven times all in the space of 15 seconds or so. Again I don't have much of a point of reference but they did a great job of getting me away from their nest. But assuming that they are likely either YellowJackets or Ground Bees as you suggest what would be the appropriate steps to take?
The issues are that this pile of leaves represents a considerable percentage of the carbon my friend has to
compost AND its pretty big and sits in a part of the yard she'd rather not devote to leaves for several years to come.

I think that it is entirely possible that the nest is not actually in the pile of leaves, that the entrance or hole in the ground to where their nest is, is hidden in the leaves somewhere. The big nest that I had was just a small opening in some leaves within a bit of brush in front of a big compost pile that I had. I accidentally noticed them going in and out of the hole. There were so many and it was so busy that it looked the entrance to a bee hive. Obviously, I had not been around that pile much in awhile. I was first alerted to the fact that there was a big colony around some where by the fact that they completely covered up a humming bird feeder outside our bedroom window and emptied it within two days. No Hummingbirds would dare try to compete with them for the nectar (colored sugar water with some kind of flavoring in it.)

I think that your best course of action would be as I described in my first posting above, flood their nest with water at night, then use caution the next day to uncover their nest and remove it. Naturally, to do that, you would have to locate the entrance, and after those stings, that may not be a task that you would look forward to. Perhaps some quite observation in the area would lead you to it.
Just my .02 + .02= .04
Bill P.

You said:
"Running for my life doesn't do much to enhance my observation skills..."

I realize that, and it's the reason I asked you to "describe them, even if only in part..."
:>)

So, with your description of "they weren't fuzzy bumblebees and they were quite a bit smaller than wasps," let's go with whatever you choose while knowing that they will only be there until the end of the year. [More explanation a bit later.]

And, yes, bees do live in the ground. Bumbles do so in smallish colonies (perhaps to 300 or so individuals in a colony). Ground bees, also, but only one bee per nest.

And yes, bumbles do nest in compost piles -- for the most part, undisturbed compost piles -- because they are nice and cozy, also insulated from weather extremes.

If the critters in this particular leaf pile are yellowjackets or bumblebees, the appropriate step would be to ignore them and that place until the colony dies -- which will be later in the year. In my region it's usually mid to late December, or rarely mid-January if a very mild winter.

With that knowledge in hand, your friend should realize that she just needs to ignore the leaves until the end of this year.

Of all the critters mentioned above, only the bumbles and yellowjackets would dash out to protect the nest.

Oh yes, gonefishin has a good point about the nest possibly being in the ground adjacent to the pile rather than in the pile itself. In such a case, the ID would likely be yellowjackets or bumbles.

In any event, I still suggest your friend tolerate the critters until the colony dies this year.

If they're bees, we need all the pollinators we can get.

And if they're yellowjackets, understand that they are helping to limit the local population of pesky insects.

I've had more surprises with garter snake nests in my compost piles than insect problems, but they sound like yellow jackets to me. I've found with them in a few other places around the yard over the years and it is never easy. They are very aggressive.

But get stung by a hornet, and a single yellow jacket sting won't seem as bad... :(

jean001,

I really appreciate your response and like you Im
inclined to leave the thing alone for a good long
while but I do have one last question......

In your opinion do you think the bees/wasps/whatevers
(my entomology aint too sophisticated!) would
leave if the pile started to heat up into the
110+ range?

Thanks again.

Just in case....we keep a jug of regular household ammonia cleaner around for mosquito, bee, and wasp stings, as well as deer fly bites. The ammonia will destroy the toxin. Obviously, the quicker this is applied, the better.

Someone will have to observe the bees, during the day, when they are out and about, gathering food. If they turn out to be yellowjackets, I'm with gonefishin, I would simply flood them out, in the evening, with a hose. A risky procedure, but I have done this myself, without getting stung. Bumblebees are less aggressive, at least, the bumblebees we have in Wisconsin. Every summer, I am out in the raspberry patch in July and August, and there will usually be a few bumblebees out there with me, often only a few inches away. I leave them alone, and they leave me alone. I regard the bumblebees as being essentially benign, and value their contribution to the garden, as pollinators.

You asked:
"In your opinion do you think the bees/wasps/whatever
(my entomology aint too sophisticated!) would
leave if the pile started to heat up into the
110+ range?"

I've never seen information about specific temperature ranges they will tolerate in a pile.

But to increase that pile's heat, one would have to mix in green stuff. That said, it's unwise to start moving the pile contents when you know that stinging insects are either in the pile or very near it.

I recently saw a TV nature show that said hornets were killed by swarming bees that brought the temperature up to 115 degrees F. If the compost pile reaches 120F, that ought to take care of the problem.

Which makes me think that dousing the compost pile with a hose connected to the water heater might do the trick. I have personally done some reckless things to kill yellow jacket nests and gotten away with it, so I might try that. But that's just me and I wasn't poisoning my compost pile.

You might want to contact an exterminator...

All bees die when they sting someone, loose their stinger, but the Yeallow Jackets can sting multiple times and when a Yellow Jacket stings you it releases a pheromone that calls other Yellow Jackts to come help control this intruder. So anytime you are under attack formn some really aggressive "bees" it will be these Yellow Jackets, wasps, and not bees that are doing that.

Here is a link that might be useful: Yellow Jackets

sounds like yellow jackets to me as well. i have a sure "fire" way of getting rid of them, i wait until after dark then pour gas in the hole. throw a match, and no more yellow jackets!

of course this won't work if they ar ein the pile and you want to save the pile, but works great for when they have a hole in the ground. and is more effective than flooding.

Couple options- let it turn to leaf mold and hope they leave.
Let it start breaking down, then dump in something green and liquid. Manure tea and sugar solution comes to mind. The problem with doing this first is that the stuff won't get into the pile well if the leaves are whole. Might help anyway I guess. Nothing like that is going to live for days at say 130F.

It was said:
"let it turn to leaf mold and hope they leave"

As has been said, the colony dies at the end of the year.
In other words, they *will* be gone.

Most wasp and bumble bee colonies die at the end of the year. If it's honey bees- several are perrenial. You're right though- it doesn't sound like honey bees if they're in that pile.

A similar thing happened to me several years ago and it was yellow jackets. I usually pile my waste up for a year and then turn it in spring. That year while turning the pile I uncovered a volley-ball sized nest. No man with a replaced hip and bad knee as I have ever moved so fast. Fortunately, I was only stung once. Since the nest was mainly still intact, and this was my only source of compost, neither side was about to back down. When the nest settled down, I reached into it with my spading fork and split it wide open. A quick hit and run. I then got the hose out and from a distance of about 15 feet just kept pulverizing it with water until it was dissolved. After 3-4 days the yellow jackets stopped hovering where the nest used to be and were gone.

P.S. The presence of yellow jackets means your pile is too dry ;-)

tj

Pouring gasoline, or any other petroleum product, on or in the ground is environmentally irresponsible, and like flooding with water really does not eliminate the nest. These wasps have learned over time how to build nests that will not get flooded out, or they would not have survived through today. All you really do is change the location of the exit/entry point.

kimmsr- I had a paper nest IN my compost. When I pulverized it with water I didn't change the location of the entry point, I changed the location of the nest. I moved it from here to oblivion and they never came back. So water in that instance can help. Underground is another matter and you are correct there. It would more likely just cause a change in entry points.

tj

Tsuga:
You are a brave person!

If this was a problem in my yard I'd either leave it to go away on its own or call the exterminators.

If you do call someone in, Decklap, my previous experience with an exterminator might be useful to you. We had wasps coming in the house. The exterminator came out and did an inspection until he located the nest on an outside windowsill.

Then he tried to avoid doing the job! Started to advise me about going to the store and buying some of that long-range stuff you spray at the nest. I brought him back to his responsibilities by reminding him that the $200 minimum I was paying for his visit was supposed to cover the removal of the wasps, and then he got on his ladder and took care of it. I think he just didn't feel like climbing that ladder if he could find a way out of it.

The other annoying behavior on the part of the exterminator was he tried to upsell me - kept pointing out squirrel nests in the trees obviously hoping I'd become concerned and ask him to take them out (which I didn't).
-O

I have never seen a yellow jacket nest, or any kind of wasp nest that was built where you could not see it, like say completely covered in a pile of leaves. Their nest are engineered pretty specifically and have many cells like honey comb where they lay eggs, seal it over and grow their larvae.

I still suspect ground bees which make their nests in the ground, sometimes a large nest, but seem to want to hide the entrance to their nest in a shallow pile of leaves like around the edge of that pile of leaves.

Many times I have used an aerosol can of Raid Flying Insect spray to kill various wasps if their nests were in the way, or in a spot that might be dangerous to children or pets. It is very effective and knocks them down immediately. The old black tailed red wasps are the toughest and do a lot of flopping around in death throes before they succumb but not for long.

Be safe, good luck and let us know what develops.
Bill P.