Hi, Spiritual Gardener -- I gave up on trying to grow grass under big old trees. So I planted ivy and vinca and they are green, cover the bare soil, and are doing great. I just run a mower over the ivy several times a summer season. I also put down shredded leaves.
Hope this helps.
Best to you -
Sunny

So are you trying to make grass grow in the spotty areas? Or are you going to convert them to garden beds?

You will probably need to leave an area for the dogs to have as theirs or you risk them digging out your work in order to lounge on cool dirt. Perhaps you need a sand box for the dogs or something?

Here are just a couple things to keep in mind about mulching with wood chips (which I do it with free chips I get tree services that are working in the neighborhood to dump in front of my house instead of them having to pay to haul them to the dump.) If there is grass or weeds growing where you put down wood chips, they will probably manage to grow through the chips eventually and mowing over wood chips isn't very nice. Landscape fabrics don't last for ever and they actually make it harder to pull weeds when they do grow through it. Cardboard or paper down under chips only lasts for a while. So if your plan is to just put wood chip mulch down for a better looking ground in the areas where nothing is growing, that should help. If you put wood chips down where stuff is growing, you will likely be annoyed by the weeds growing through the chips.

I favor using free wood chips. Do keep in mind that they will break down over time and improve the soil, especially if the ground under them stays moist. New mulch will need to be added in time to keep the look and over time new plants may decide that the soil is now good enough for them to grow there.

Here is a link that might be useful: TCLynx

Thanks for the responses!

I'm curious sunnyside1 about your ivy.

I did consider this last year. It does grow in my situation, and in fact was out of control so bad I had to take it out of many areas.

The one thing I'm concerned about it getting out of control again. I don't have a problem with mowing it, I just want to keep it contained. Have you had issues with this?

Thanks!

SG

Very often when someone says they cannot grow grass under a tree what I find is the soil simply does not have enough organic matter to grow much of anything and the grass that does grow is cut too short so the grass blades cannot utilize the light they do get to make nutrients to feed the grass crown so it will not send out more grass blades.
Just as a flower garden should have 5 to 8 percent organic matter so should a lawn area, and grass should always be cut as high as the mower you use allows, and if that mower does not allow the grass to grow high enough it should be replaced.
The second thing is the wrong species of grass, most often Blue Grass or Perennial Rye or some other grass that needs lots of sun is planted instead of one of the Fescues that can tolerate lower levels of sunlight.

Hi -- My ivy is very well behaved. !! I drew a "line in the sand" and believe it's easier to rip some back now and then rather than try to get grass to grow right now. I have so many projects going now in my large yard.

That said, Kimmsr has the right idea, I think. He seems to take the Long View and I have printed out that post for reference in my "to do" folder.

Ivy stays green, isn't needy, and I'm glad to have it right now. BTW, my ivy is not the large-leaved type. It's easy to mow and trim. The vinca is not hard to control.
Best to you -
Sunny

I have "lines in the sand" for controlling ivy. When I installed my border beds, I put bricks all around for edging.

I also have numerous projects, both inside and out.

I agree that conditions need to be met before grass will grow. That said, I have other things to do besides baby sit grass. Getting conditions right would be a huge challenge, not to mention expensive. I just want the area to look nice, and preferably green. If ivy fits the bill, then so be it.

Thanks!

SG

my dad has the nicest grass in his lawn under the biggest of trees.
creeping red fescue is supposed to be very shade tolerant, i think that's what he used. funny story bout that, when i got grass seed for my yard they gave me creeping red @ lowes, said it would be best, and i didn't have a 3 ft tall tree in my yard at all! lowes don't knows haha..

another problem with keeping grass under trees is not only the shade from above, but the roots from below, the trees will rob soil of water fast. so make sure you keep water there. also i read somewhere that if you're waterings are sparse and frequent instead of infrequent deep soak waterings, then the roots will concentrate towards the top of the soil where the water is avail. more than it is deep down.

Thanks for all of the advice!

West9491, I will look into the creeping red fescue. I'm in zone 7, very close to D.C. and need to be sure it will take our intense heat.

I have consulted with the local county extension office about my issue. They have educated me about what to do (or not). Watering properly is key, and not something I was doing properly until this year. I did manage to have a beautiful lawn that my neighbors envied for a while, then something went horribly wrong and it died. True, it could have been because of my watering.

This whole experience has been very frustrating, and expensive. I've gotten so much advice, much of which centers around bringing in top soil (not an option due to what it would take).

My plan is to have deal with this problem and get it out of the way, one way or another. Given what I now know, I may consider one more go at grass if advice indicates it may work in my zone.

Thanks again!

SG

Here is a guide to grasses. According to the guide for CRF, it sould be good in DC.

sg, i have crappy soil too, and during these hot days, it doesn't take much for my pottery like clay soil to heat up and dry out. and i don't wanna restart completely by bringing in top soil, i'm just going organic to make the best out of the soil i do have.

In the interests of ecology I would suggest you do some research on landscaping without lawn grass. It is very dependent on fertilizer and water, both of which for different reasons are not a good choice in today's world. There are other choices which are better for the earth and easier to do which will look as nice or nicer.

Perhaps you could use wood chips under the large trees, ground covers with mulch between in some areas and a few nice perennial beds. Use pathways of wood chips or whatever other local materials you can find, and compost as much as possible to feed those plants.

I think we are on the edge of a change of consciousness in how we treat the earth and I await the day when lawn grass goes the way of the horse and buggy.

Luckygal--It looks like the OP is already considering alternatives to grass, and the grasses the OP is considering are low maintenance grasses that don't have the ferilizer and water needs of traditional turf grasses. Creeping red fescue can probably get by in DC without any fertilizer and with little or no water other than that provided by nature.

Hey bpgreen: thanks for posting the link. That is a great site. I hadn't realized there were so many different types of grasses.

Sudzy--There are probably more types of grasses than that.

That site has a definite bias to the western US. You'll see comments like "irrigation will be needed to keep this grass green in areas with less than 18 inches annual precipitation."

Creeping Red fescue has a comment something like that, along with the notation that it is suitable for pastures in relatively moist cool areas. In Illinois, 18 inches of precipitation would be considered drought, rather than relatively moist.

I used relatively fresh wood chips to mulch a muddy, eroded, shady side yard that wasn't growing anything but trees and a little bit of the dreaded lesser celandine here in NY. It looks better than before and is more pleasant to walk on than previously but I probably wouldn't walk on it barefoot just yet. Some vegetation is starting to poke up through the wood chips here and there (a few violets, a few sprigs of creeping red fescue and some things I haven't identified). I don't mind this vegetation but if I did I would have put down newspaper or cardboard first. I did get rid of the small amount of lesser celandine first. I vote against ivy and vinca because they are invasive but I admit that they do tend to grow and establish easily and don't require much care. Starting any grass during summer in the DC area would be difficult. Seeding in fall or spring would be easier. Maybe there is a native ground cover or two that you could use? You would have to check what works for your area and conditions.

"Creeping red fescue can probably get by in DC without any fertilizer and with little or no water other than that provided by nature." Really? bpgreen, I did not realize that the "very large old growth trees" in DC would not take all the water and nutrients out of the soil. Those trees must not be as hungry and thirsty as ours.

Thank you all for your responses!

I have been looking around the neighborhood and have noticed some people who have ivy on hillsides and under trees. Some let it go, but a few others keep it under control. Where it is controlled, it looks very nice, and is doing really REALLY well. Like most plants, I guess if you keep up with it, it will meet your needs.

While I don't like the idea of ivy, it seems to be a solution to my problem. The thought of having wood chips brought in, even every two years (what county extension told me it would take) is not appealing. I've hauled tons of stone, plants, blocks and soil from the front of the house, down a hill and through a gate already! I want it to end! (and be successful).

Thanks again,

SG

My friend bought a house years ago with lots of sad looking grass and plenty of shade . Year after year , she and hubby would collect bags of leaves left curbside . They spread the leaves and wood chips all around as time allowed . Most flower beds they made were curved and they made lots of paths with found stones or old concrete pieces . The yard today is so quiet and peaceful and smells so good - just like the floor of a forest . Since both people work full time , they only worked at this a few times a year . Even now , they add new leaves and chips only once a year or so . It is the nicest alternative to a grass yard that I have ever seen .
Even if you just tried this in a small spot , it might be worth the effort .