bill, got home late and was trying to upload a pic of the carb. it does have a shut off, but now i had to replace the pinion gear on the starter from all the cranking. the starter is back together but not on the motor. this is driving me nuts. i'll put the starter on when i get home, but would still like to get the carb pic posted. i think the model# for the carb is 391065 at least from what can find from a parts look up site with my first posted motor# 326437-0649-01. the only progress i've made was to get the sea foam. WAY too much rain here in pittsburgh.
thanks again, pete

Don't really need a carb pic.
The IPL shows it.
That IS a pretty old engine. You can tell when it was built from the CODE.
yymmddzz

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bill, i posted the pics because first because i think you're right about a carb problem. and second i want to make sure i'm turning the right screws. when i take the cover off the carb and look down inside i see streaks of brown stuff on one side. i shot that with carb cleaner and deep creep and it seems to be dissolving hopefully not to get stuck somewhere else. i did remove what i think is the high speed screw [lower left with spring] and blasted carb cleaner in like you said. it seemed better for awhile but still bogs down with blades engaged more pronounced going uphill. my thinking is the entire carb may be covered with what i saw just looking down inside. i did buy a rebuild kit but won't do that til tomorrow because atleast the tractor runs now to haul grass cuttings [yeah i bag everthing] and tools around. it's 2 acres only 1 of grass, but i need to get this thing fixed. any shop around here is backed up for 3 weeks. i can't even get someone to cut my grass to give me time to try to fix it.
i put in a new briggs fuel filter, it's clear and the flow arrow is in the right direction, but there seems to be so little fuel in it. i thought maybe the tank or at least the hose connection at the base could be gummed up as well. i'll look into that after i finish cutting with the lawnboy. i feel sorry for that mower.
thanks, pete
oh, is this an "updraft" carb with the proper cover [the black one] the chrome one is from my tiller with a similar carb but a different base. the tractor has the cut away base where the tiller has a round gasket.
also, it is an old tractor i think 1983, i don't know for sure i bought it used. what did the numbers tell you? it was shortblocked 3 years ago. right after i bought a new carb and starter.

If you find out your problem please let me know I am going through the same problem with mine. Mine is only four years old thow modle # 31h777. I am tried of scratching the hair off my head.

It's an updraft carb. The air flows UP into the engine.
A walk behind mower would be a side draft and our old favorite V* cars were down draft,
Up draft carbs were common, back in the old days. They had trouble with carbs flooding because the float/needle/seat systems were so "problematic" that gravity flow carbs would fill up with gas and keep filling. The updraft carb wouldn't fill the engine unbeknownst. The gas would tend to start running out the bowl vent and on to the ground.

Have you tried running it with the fuel shut off closed YET?
-As mentioned in one of my previous posts-

bill, thanks for replying. the carb does have a shut off valve though i think i said it did not. yes i did close it like you asked me to and it seemed to run out of gas with no improvement. it just shut down. i then removed the valve and shot cleaner in that hole also. like i said in the last post tomorrow i'll take it apart to see if it's all gummed up with the brown stuff i see looking down though where the filter cover goes. that stuff cleaned off easily with carb cleaner. the tractor is used through the winter to plow with no problems. like i said, i'll take the carb off tomorrow and see what i find. i've never done it before, i just hope a bunch of microscpic parts don't shoot all over the place. if that happens i'll take what's left of it to the mechanic around here and maybe he can just rebuild it for me rather than me bringing the entire tractor to his shop. like i said he is three weeks backed up and just looking around i don't think he has room for a chainsaw let alone another tractor.
i also notice the fuel lines that were once clear are now brown. i'll replace them too when i clean the tank.
"gas running on to the ground" that's what my tiller with briggs #195432-1038-01 - 951107B1 does if i don't shut the valve off after using it. but we really don't need to talk about that situation as well. i only mentioned it because it does exactely what you said.
the mechanic i mentioned asked if i run 87 octane, which i do, and he told me there is more methanol or ethanol in low grade than in mid 89 i guess. he belives that can gum up equipment that is'nt refilled with fresh gas like a truck or car. any thoughts on that?.
anyway, at this point if someone told me the problem was my left rear tire valve stem i would look very seriously into it.
pete

Running it with the fuel valve shut and no improvement before it dies-
indicates that the problem isn't likely an over rich condition caused by the carb running too full.

What happens if you screw IN the high speed screw in 1/4 turn increments?

thanks again bill,
i tried screwing both directions quarter turns. with no lasting improvement. i was just down in the garage and noticed a small spring on the throttle link arm is broken. the spring goes around the link. it is broken at the bottom where it looks like it was attatched to the governer lever. the IPL shows it as #232 and names it sring-governed idle. the spring is so small i never noticed it.
pete

Re: The carb in the picture: The needle valve, down at the bottom side of the bowl, with the needle screwed in at an angle, has a fitting inside there, that has to come out for proper cleaning. I ground down an old flat screw-driver, to fit the inner portion after the needle is taken out. I found lots of hardened crud in there, so i cleaned that hole out well, and things improved much when i assembled the carb.

bill, i finally got the carb off about 2 hours ago. the back side was covered with thick black scum. i cleaned all that off before trying to get the top piece off that connects to the intake manifold. it's really stuck on there to the point i'm afraid to force it. i looked up inside the high speed valve and it looks like a small screw driver is used to remove the carb nozzle. i don't know it that holds it in or if the body gasket is just that stuck. i'll spray it with deep creep and see if it loosens. also, the throttle shaft seems to have a lot of play where it slides thru. can this be so worn that air can be drawn in there making it hard if not impossible to correctly adjust. this carb is 8 years old and if i remember right that was the reason for buying a new one but i can't remember how the tractor was acting then to buy a new one. i'll take it with me to work and try again to get it apart. i feel like i'm shoveling smoke on this project.
pete
by the way, i was looking around the forum and saw how you got a members briggs charging system going. i thought that was great. i copied it beause i have the same problem. but that's WAY down the road!

Worn throttle shaft bushings can cause problems.
It tends to have more effect at low engine speeds, since the air flow is lower.
Have a machinist friend that likes rebushing projects?

I see that carb is close to $180! OUCH!!

thanks again bill.
OUCH!!!!! is what my feet are saying from cutting 1 acre with my 21 inch lawn boy. all my friends are plumbers or electricians. i'm a carpenter. $180 huh? i did'nt look it up, but i'd belive it. it was $120 8 years ago.
2 things i did't mention. #1 i took the head off still thinking it might be the head gasket. it was [to me pretty carbon fouled] went to autozone for more carb cleaner and fuel lines [they told me garden tractors and mowers don't NEED head gaskets?] not enough compression. maybe he was right, which i have trouble beliving, but i had one so i put it in. it ran somewhat better after cleaning and the new gasket. i did'nt run it long because i wanted to get the car out. #2 as i mentioned my charging system, the diode wires, red and black, are just hanging out near the starter pinion gear cover. i've been charing the battery about once a month for 2or3 seasons with no power loss like i have now. the batt will now only charge up to 12.3 volts. now with the carb off i can't do a load test [with blades engaged compared to no load on motor]. i've been so used to running it this way it just hit me this could be part of, if not entirely, my problem. this has got my brain so fried i can't stand it. but why all the carbon? the best i can do first for the carb is try to get it apart and if not take it to a shop and let them look at it concerning the shaft issue. by the time off work the shops are closed unless i leave early. i'm late now for right this reply. so now it might be $180+ a battery and still no charging system. WOW!
pete.

Ignore any "tech" advice from Autozone!

The thought has crossed my mind that the engine may be simply worn out?
Or maybe need the valves ground?
I'd hate to see you put a lot of $ in it and find out you still didn't solve the problem.

"It appears that ignition system has points?
IF that's the case, low voltage COULD affect performance.
Also bad or misadjusted points or a bad condenser could cause problems.
You could have sufficient spark with the throttle closed, because the engine isn't "sucking" a lot of air. Thus your "effective" compression is low. Open up the throttle, the engine pomps more air, filling the cylinder further and raising the "effective" compression. With a weak ignition system it can basically, "blow out the spark.
Since you said a new plug helped for "a while", that's an indicator of sorts. A new plug is easier to fire than an old one.
Fixing the charging system may be "relatively" inexpensive.
Does the Red & Black wire still have a connector? It should be White.
IF so (I hope), the raised rib is the DC side and the other is AC for the headlights. You should get a minimum of 14VAC from the AC side.
IF the connector has been cut off, we can probably splice in a diode or 2 from Radio Shack and "jerry rig" a charging system.

Go to this link and see if you can ID your specific tractor-
http://www.simplicitytechpubs.com/idlocation.php
Hopefully the manual (if available) will have a schematic that I can look at.

thanks bill once again.
i'll try to get this in quickly something is attacking my computer.
the motor was short blocked i think 3 or 4 years ago. maybe longer, but not much. as for trhe points, there are none any more. during the short block job a armature-magneto#398811 was installed. i can't remember what that was all about, but the flywheel had to be [repolarsised? i think sent to detroit. anyway i know what white connector you are talking about. it is there. has what a manual i have refers to it as having a "bump" on one side which i think you're calling a "rib. the wires to it are 1 black and 1 red. they come out of the backside of the flywheel just above the starter motor. i went on the site you posted but like i said i'm having computer trouble. the operators manual i got with the tractor states" 10 amp flywheel alternator solid state rectifier-regulator, 45 amp hr. battery. if it's the right manual that is. i'll get the computer going tomorrow and post a pic of what's hanging out near the starter. it looks just like what you were helping "teeracter" on may,24 '08.
i have to be at work at 4:30 am. i've fixed this spy ware before but i'll take me awhile to remember how to do it.
thanks again, pete
oh yeah, the guy at autozone, and i'm bashing autozone all around, they've helped me with my trucks, also told me tractors will run FINE on about 90% of the spark plugs they sell. i hope this guy had a real dry sense of humor because he seemed dead serious.

We can eliminate low voltage/ignition points then.

Interesting about the alternator??
My chart shows that combo as 2-4A DC and 14VAC???
A schematic would really help here.

Whenever you can post the info RE: the the manual is fine-
IF you can't find that, we can probably figure it out some other way-

LIGHTBULB goes off-
Replacement short block???? Maybe it has the "other" style stator/connector???? That might explain why it doesn't look like the 10A system?

bill,
until i can get this computer running right, the best i can do is the tractor #1690569 - 7116 hydrostatic with turf tires. the connector is white about 1 inch long, with 2 small probes inside. a manual i have here says exactly what you are saying. the bump side indicates DC output. i'm not sure what you what you mean by the "other" style. i'll get you a schematic and a pic tomorrow. picture i think will help. this manual is talking tri circuts, diodes, rectifires, sticking pins in wires to test. i don't want to send you too much wrong or misleading information.
thanks pete

1690569 is what I was looking for!

That let me find a parts & operators manual.

The parts manual has a "wiring diagram", but not a real schematic. I think it still gave me enough alternator info.
Enough to make me think you might have had a "swap" with your shortblock?

sorry about last post.
i meant to say "i'm NOT bashing autozone all around".
pete

bill, here are the pics. looks like the diode is bypassed. the red wire goes up to the "L" pin on the ignition switch. the black wires are not connected. i have some briggs repair manuals showing that diode [i think] but in the diagrams they all show a anti-after fire solenoid. i've never heard of one. i need to replace the switch any because the key keeps falling out so i'll look for it. what ever it is.
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thanks again, pete
oh yeah, i think the carb is fine. i took it off the tractor and let a simpicity shop fix it. sorry about the mess in the middle of the post!!

Anti fire solenoid, fuel cut off solenoid- same thing.
Your engine is too old to have one.
It's the solenoid on the carb that blocks off the main jet when the key is turned off to prevent after fire (back fire).

I looked up your key switch, cross referenced to an equivalent part# that I had a schematic for and came up with this "truth table"-
OFF M+G
ON B+L
START B+S
So, when ON (and running), the alternator would send Voltage to the battery via the L wire, through the switch to the B(attery) terminal, thus charging the battery.
G= Ground
M= Magneto.
It appears you may have AC (a battery killer) going to the battery instead of DC?
However, the IPL for that engine shows an inline (replaceable) rectifier as a separate part being "available. It's set up just like an inline fuse holder apparently.
About the only way to tell is trace that wire to the L terminal, and see if there is one.
Also, if you have a volt meter, you could check the output from each pin of the connector, using both the AC & DC ranges. You should be able to figure "something" out from that. IF nothing else, maybe a dead stator winding?

thanks again bill,
"solinoid on the carb" never heard of that either. like i said last night, i'm replacing the ignition switch, so i'll trace out all the wires.
"stator winding" that's another new one. is that the magneto?
i do have a repair manual around somwhere other than than the one i refered to last night that shows kind of table. i'll loke into it when i get home. but i may have to take this computer in to be scanned or tested. somethings wierd with it.
also,what did you mean by a "swap" with my shortblock?
thanks again,
pete

Stator is that coil of wires that your RED & WHITE wires with WHITE connector are attached to.
That configuration is a 2-4 AMP DC- 14 VAC system ONLY.
It would typically be used on electric start machines with lights and NO other electrical accessories. Like an electric start snow blower with lights or a tractor without an electric PTO or other electrical accessories.

A 10 AMP system will have different colored wire(s) and connector!!!!

An alternator puts out AC only. A diode (aka rectifier) is used to convert AC to DC. It's basically an electrical "check valve", only allowing the positive (or only the negative) part of the AC sine wave to pass through. Thus, you get a pulsating DC current through the diode.

In the 2-4 AMP DC-14 VAC system, they save using a 2nd diode and just use the straight AC (from the "other leg" of the stator) to power the lights. Lights don't care if it's AC or DC. A battery DOES!
A diode will also cause a slight voltage drop (.2-.4V or so) that they can avoid that and deliver a couple extra WATTS for the lights.

Since your tractor is supposed to be a 10 AMP system, I believe the stator from your original engine wasn't swapped into the new engine, like it should have been?
It ALSO appears, that they hooked up to the wrong (AC) terminal on the new connector.
Unless there is a diode in the circuit between that connection and the L terminal on the key switch, it is delivering AC to the battery. That will kill a battery, besides NOT charging it.

bill, thanks once again.
i put the new ignition switch in tonight cleaned up and traced where all the wires from the switch, solenoid ammeter go. in between the ammeter and the solenoid post with the positve battery cable is a small silver box about the size of a 9 volt battery. it has 2 threaded posts on the bottom. one post is marked "AUX" and the other "BAT". on the side i can barely read 12v 20A. any thoughts on that? i'll post a pic tomorrow. about the "L", wire it runs into the flywheel area. you can see it in the above pics. that blue thing is just a male female connector. "M" goes to magneto/armature and "S" goes to the mower deck pto safety switch. "B" runs to the other post on the ammeter. it has a 3 post solenoid the other large post runs to the starter. the third post runs to the hydro transmission lever. the lever has to be pushed in to allow the tractor to start.
the more i write or look at this the less sense it makes. i do have good, clear diagrams, but they all show that anti fire solenoid. it's a briggs manual for "L" heads built after 1981.
thanks, pete
when i took the tractor in for the shortblock, the guy asked was the hydro good, the deck good. stuff like that before i sunk the money into the shortblock. i aprrecited that. i had just bought a new carb, then shortly after the starter, 2 things i understand don't come with the shortblock. i have'nt seen him since, but i'd hate to think he ripped me off

"...is a small silver box about the size of a 9 volt battery. it has 2 threaded posts on the bottom. one post is marked "AUX" and the other "BAT". on the side i can barely read 12v 20A."

That should be the circuit breaker. Used instead of a fuse.
It's listed on the tractor parts list.

The S terminal of the key switch goes through the "transmission lever switch" (aka neutral safety switch) before going to the solenoid.
Other tractors will have the same switch on the clutch pedal instead. It's a simple switch to keep you from starting the tractor in gear.
You may also have a similar switch on the PTO, to make sure if's OFF before the engine cranks.

I don't know if the short block came with the stator. It really shouldn't??.
IF it did, he should have swapped it so it would match your existing wiring.
I have a hunch he may have just sold you a used/overhailed engine and called it a "short block"?

briggs #326437-0649-01 (just posting this again so I don't have to scroll all the way to the top!)

thanks again bill.
yeah, i'm afraid it's starting to look that way the more i, or should i say you, look into it. also, when i bought this tractor, i was told it was "around" a 1983 model. that dealer i found out later was a real jerk. not the same jerk as the shortblock jerk. it just came to mind that i have some paperwork on this "shortblock" in my garage. if in fact it IS a shortblock!! like you're saying it may not be.
you're right about the pto switch, it's there, i thought i posted that. this is such a long post i should start a new one, at least get rid of those pics. i hope the guy that has my carb is'nt the same as the other two. i don't even want to think about that. he's never done any work for me, he bought the business from a honest guy who had trouble with his partner. this whole thing is just a mess now.
thanks pete
326437-0649-01 motor
1690569 simplicity 7116 hydro turf tires if you even feel like dealing with this anymore.
i'll look into better diagrams when i get home. i'm working stagered shifts now, but if the carb guy calls i'll drop everthing to run out and get it.

thanks again bill.
yeah, i'm afraid it's starting to look that way the more i, or should i say you, look into it. also, when i bought this tractor, i was told it was "around" a 1983 model. that dealer i found out later was a real jerk. not the same jerk as the shortblock jerk. it just came to mind that i have some paperwork on this "shortblock" in my garage. if in fact it IS a shortblock!! like you're saying it may not be.
you're right about the pto switch, it's there, i thought i posted that. this is such a long post i should start a new one, at least get rid of those pics. i hope the guy that has my carb is'nt the same as the other two. i don't even want to think about that. he's never done any work for me, he bought the business from a honest guy who had trouble with his partner. this whole thing is just a mess now.
thanks pete
326437-0649-01 motor
1690569 simplicity 7116 hydro turf tires if you even feel like dealing with this anymore.
i'll look into better diagrams when i get home. i'm working stagered shifts now, but if the carb guy calls i'll drop everthing to run out and get it.

Keep the pics from Tue, Jul 15, 08 at 22:11

I was looking over that again.

Are you saying the WHITE connector is totally disconnected?
AND
The RED wire is what now goes to the L terminal?
We may have to rethink this?
We'll really need to (when you get it running) is disconnect the RED wire from the L and measure it for both AC & DC volts.
Maybe there is a diode under the cowling??? Or maybe under the blue connector?? Is that a plug connector, or just a splice?
Probably the simplest way to test would be-
IF a splice-
Start the tractor and then disconnect the + battery cable.
Measure the AC & DC volts AT the battery cable.
There should be 14ish DC volts and 0 AC volts.
IF it's a connector, unplug and measure there on the "engine side".

Don't give up yet! We've got too much time invested now. Kind of like a "bad marriage". :-)

it's me again bill! 326437- 0649-01 tractor#1690569hydro
yes, the white connector is completely disconnected. and yes the red wire goes to the "L" pin on the ignition switch. the blue on the red wire is a male/female plug connection. in the 7.06.2008. 03:07 pic, you can see the red wire and the black wire is just below it, if this helps. if what i've been reading in manuals and on line they go to the alternator? i hope. or the shortblock/old motor selling theif, just ran 2 pigtails of wire in behind the flywheel. you're right though, i need the carb back.
here's another twist. the flywheel shroud has been cut in such a way that i can get at the magneto/armature without removing the entire shroud and the drive shaft. it's actually a very precise cut considering everything else that seems to have been cobbed together. shortblock guy had nothing to do with this. i saw it before he got the tractor. this post is turing into a novel. and i type with one finger.
thanks, pete
my wife has been reading this post admiring your patience and determination. she told me what the symbol after "bad marriage" means. nice touch.

Let's wait till you get it running and then we can tackle the charging issue, IF there is one.

bill, i'm calling about the carb around 8am today and he works 'til noon saturday. i'm kind if afraid to push him. you how how if you send food back to the cook, the whole kitchen staff spits all over it.
pete

Best not to push. You want the guy happy when he puts it together.
If it's really crudded up, he may want to soak it another day, or he may need a small part etc.

"you how how if you send food back to the cook, the whole kitchen staff spits all over it."

Only 1/2. The other 1/2 does something else to it! :-)

326437-0649-01 1690569 simplicity7116 16hp hydro turf
ok bill, i just got the carb. he did not have the govener link spring #232 in the briggs IPL, mine's bent. i've only bought parts from this dealer, so i'll not lump him in with the past gentlemen. [for now]. $23 dollars. i thought the kit was that much. i'll get it put back together tomorrow first to see if it runs ok with the blades engaged. then look into the charging system.
i'm really trying to find some clearer drawings. i noticed behind the dash what appears to be an abandonded "terminal" board. it is nothing more than 6 posts. that's it. i know i've seen some drawings including it, even a picture of one, small copper coils i think, but i do'nt want to think ahead too much. just get it running first. hopefully 1 last time cutting this yard on foot.
see ya, pete
i was a dishwasher in jr high school, and i think a cook was in the habit of handeling returned food orders that way. i never ate anything there as long as i worked there, and it was free!

bill, i'm only now gettig started with the tractor. the battery not being able to charge above now 12.19 concerned me so i took ot back to sears where it was to my surprise was replaced for free. with no charging system it's one less part of the eqauation to consider. [i think]. i have a manual that describes an initial setting for the carb adjustments that should atleast let it start. that's what i'd like to accomplish for now. i'll let you know how it goes.
pete
my computer is still acting strange, i'll have to take it to have it "diagnosed" i think they said, so if there is no follow up post do'nt think the tractor exploded and killed my wife and me, our 2 dogs and burned my house down.

Something like 1-1/2 turns out should get you in the ballpark.

that's exactly what the manual reads bill. but i came up here for a phone#. it seems when i took out the gas tank, i've torn the rubber bushing with the fuel line connector on it. it was really brittle. i wish this did'nt happen, but i don't think it could have begun to leak soon. i'm going to advance, yep advance, and see if i can't find something to rig up. i may even have a old mower tank in the shed for now. just strap it in there til the shop opens on monday or i have something ordered. it can't be that difficult, but leaking fuel way under there concerns me. a new tank is only $78 dollars! what a steal. i'll get 3 extras.
pete

Hey, vagn2, check Rusty Jones "my Page" and send me an email!
I'll clue you in on places you can trust, in the Pittsburgh, Pa. area, that won't cheat you or stiff you, and usually have parts either readily available, or can be shipped in!
I'm not in this to make money from it, but i have bought enough stuff to know who is honest, and will do the work asap! that way, you can talk to them in person!
And maybe i can help you in other problems with yer equipment!
I live in Franklin Park, just north od the city line, about 10-12 miles.
Rusty J.

hey bill,
the tractor runs strong again. although i have not yet put the deck on. i just ran it 20 minutes ago for about 10 minutes up and down some steep hills. probably not duplicating the mower deck load but i'll get it together tomorrow.
thanks for hanging in there!

Excellent!
So on to the charging system!
Do you have a volt meter? (hopefully)

IF so, unplug that BLUE connector and measure the Voltage (engine running at high speed) on the engine side.
Meter - lead to ground.
Measure with BOTH the AC & DC modes on the meter.
Start with a higher V setting, like 50+ and work down.

Report back with what you have in BOTH AC & DC modes.

hi bill,
i put the deck on and after 15-20 minutes the power lose teturned. if i choke it it can recover but not with the deck engaged. i turned the high speed screw in and out quarter turns but it did'nt change much. the power loss is not quite as bad after the carb rebuild. but i'm afraid what you said the mechanic should be happy, best not to push, soak it awhile, well i dropped it off one day early in the week. i told him i thought i bent the tab on the and rather him fix it. fine he said 1 or 2 days. i called on friday around 4pm and he told me he forgot about it i could get it saturday. i said ok, but i was hoping to have it on friday night to test it because he closes saturday at noon so if i needed anything else he'd be closed. that was that. 15-20 later he calls my house and said it was done! i don't know. can it be done right in that short of time? i don't know if he did anything to or what. i've been talking to "rustyj14" he's up a couple of replies, and he knows some honest competent people near me. turns out we live 10-15 miles apart. i'd like to eliminate the carb as an issue.
you said in an earlier maybe need the valves ground. that sounds costly. how is it determined if they do? that concerns me.
i really thought it was running great last night. mower deck must sure put a load on the motor. i have to say, when it was first running tonight i was cutting tall thick grass up hill. seems like it wants to run. i don't know.
if anything comes to mind, please let me know.
thanks again,
pete

I wonder if the valve adjustment might be a little too close?
It may be that when hot, the clearance is decreased to the point that one/both valves aren't sealing properly???

Do you have a compression tester? If so, you might take cold & hot readings.
Typically, the hot reading will be a bit higher? If noticeably lower, it would tend to indicate a valve not seating fully.
The right way to do it would be to actually check the valve lash.
Sad to say, the carb has to come off (again) to remove the valve/breather cover.
Exhaust .018"
Intake .008"
Both +/- .001"

If the clearance is too small, the valve has to be physically removed and the stem ground to remove the proper amount of material. Not a fun job!

Have you check the spark quality from cold to hot? Maybe the coil is on its way out and getting heat sensitive?

Starting to grasp at straws here-
You might dig out the feeler gauges and check them.

thanks again bill,
the carb is already gonig to come off. like i said in last post i don't trust the guy who had it. "rustyj14" is going to help me with that. he knows honest shops or maybe he'll do it for me. as for the coil, armature, magneto, ignition module, what ever different manuals os shops call them, i've already thought about that. i just got one 2 days ago. i'm talking about the thing that sits atop the flywheel magnets and has the spark plug boot on it and one other wire. i put one on 8 years ago. remember now, this motor has no points. there is nothing in the point box. there WERE points at one time, i can't right now remember how it got wired this way elimnating the points. i've had a couple simplicitys over 17 years so i get them confused trouble or repair wise. i'll try to get home early from work HAH, and put it in. if a proper carb job and the coil dont do it, it's off to one of "rustyj14" shops. hopefully. he has some tractors for a few hundred bucks i'll buy as a back up if mine is in the shop long. i can't continue cutting all this grass 21 inches at a time! i'm renovating my house, at least i was, until this happened.

bottom line is the tractor has to be looked at by someone not just trying to make a buck,
pete 326437 - 0649 -01 simplicity 1690569 16hpturf tires7116 if you feel like looking at something.
oh, can i blow out the coil with air with out harming anything behind the flywheel? there's a lot of "hard dust" looking stuff in there.

Your best bet is to buy a tractor from Rusty and let him check yours over.Im sure he can figure it out.Just remember to take along some BUD.

"Just remember to take along some BUD." Gotta love that part!

thanks gorper99 and windcatcher,
i finally spoke with rustyj14 today. we actually live close to each other and he is offering tons of information as well as having used tractors. this stupid thing i have called a job limits my time.
who's BUD? oh, that BUD.
thanks pete

Vagn52, I don't think you can go wrong with dealing with Rusty. As far as the distance is that we live from each other, he helped me find parts for my old Farmall Cub down the road from him. Those parts were exactly what I needed for my repairs. Rusty: Salute!!!!!

hi bill,
i'll write this with caution. i put in a new coil magmeto,
whatever it is called that sits on top of the flywheel. it was really delaminated as well as filthy with dust on the bottom in the air gap. dirty contacts. just all round filthy. i cut for about 1 hour with out any trouble. but like i said it lost power on hot 85-90 degree dayswhere now it's 68. think 25-30 air temp as any thing to do with hot valves or motor? the valve info you gave is what concerns me. i don't have a compression tester, but our mechanic would probably loan me one if it's a tool i can't destroy if i don't use it right. the spark plug quality you mentioned, would i need that in line tester, i saw one the other day that goes, it think , between plug boot and coil. i saw something like that hooked up at a shop i was at for my lawnboy. i think that's a tool i'd buy. i think the compression tester was 80 bucks. i could be wrong on that. i have 3 lawnboys and 2 of them always have ignition trouble. sure seems like a better way to test for spark than shutting off all the lights in the garage and having my wife yank on the rope 12-15 times. anyway hope this is some light at the tunnel. i saw my plow in the shed today and thought what's worse? cutting on foot in hot summer or shoveling a whole lot of snow in the cold. our road could barely fit a truck plow. nah, the snow would be much worse. hope things are back to normal. either way i'll not give up.
thanks for all your help. i do have a tester and your instructions but i'm afraid the bad mojo of moving forward. i'll give it 1 day! and move on.
thanks again, pete

hi windcatcher,
another good story about rusty helping again. a farmall cub huh? i see a few of them around here if i cross the butler county line right down the road from me. what a classic looking tractor, either beat up or all new tin and paint.
pete

IF you put in a new coil, that should eliminate that as a problem.
I was just thinking that if it ran good for an hour and then started running ragged, what would cause that?????
As I mentioned, I'm kind of grasping at straws at this point.

Have you cleaned the debris from the cooling fins?

I would think that if the ambient temperature was real high, a heat related problem would occur sooner than an hour???

hi bill-
yes, i cleaned the fins. iwill go one step futher and really but carefully clean the motor. i'm graspng at staws too here, but with far less knowledge than you. i understand it has no cooling system, so a clean motor makes sense. bsides it was begining to look embarrasingas a neighbor joked. all heat last year now rain. i'm 99% sure this is the same simplcicty i've had this same trouble with finally corrected by the carb and the coil. left 1% for the bad mojo. is 30w oil the one to use or milti? it depends whind manual i read. or synthetics.(grasping here) i don't know. it ran well 'til i put it away. i hope it's resolved. for now. enthusiastically (?) signing off for now-
pete