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simcan

Very localized chlorosis

15 years ago

I have one Purple Pavement hybrid rugosa in a bed where everything around it is doing very well. Everything except for a Quick Fire hydrangea cutting about six feet away (which I started from a cutting last season, it is about two feet now and the parent is about five feet from that and doing splendidly). But the PP rose and the smaller QF hydrangea are both cholortic (yellow leaves, green veins) though are otherwise doing well. Vigorous and bushy.

I suppose I will have to test the soil to be sure, but any thoughts? It seems this is most likely either a PH issue (inhibiting iron uptake) or an iron deficiency in the soil. But it is so localized it is hard for me to see why it is an issue where it is with plants literally adjacent doing fine (which I think supports the PH diagnosis, since maybe these plants are happier in that PH).

Soil is organic clay, good soil though a little dense still, mulched with composted straw/manure. It retains moisture well and it has been a very wet spring, so this occurred to me as well as a cause.

Any thoughts? I was thinking of adding chelated iron on the theory it won't hurt and might help. I am not very interested in tinkering with PH using lime or sulphur, etc., but would move the plants next year if they aren't happy where they are.

Anyway, I am beginning to ramble so will turn it over to you guys and gals. Any thoughts?

Comments (11)

  • 15 years ago

    Either it is a localized pH issue or these varieties are more pH-sensitive. Rugosas and some others can show iron deficiency at pH 6.8 and up. Most soils contain lots of iron, so it's almost always a question of pH. However, iron deficiency can show up temporarily in cool, wet soil and then go away as the soil dries and warms. So you can wait and see.

    Or you could apply 1/3 cup sulfur (preferably micronized) per sq yard, under the mulch and lightly mixed with the unconsolidated soil. It takes a long time to work but has a long-term effect. Chelated iron may or may not help in the short run.

  • 15 years ago

    Do you know what your homesite was, before it was your home?

    In New Orleans, I had a localized problem, and only when we removed the cement walk next to it did we find a solid three step cement step six feet long buried at an odd angle to all current existing structures. Our home had been a lumber yard.
    Up here in Tennessee, I had a problem and dug down and found a lot of charcoal and below that worked stones suitable for cleaning deer hides. The charcoal was down about twelve inches and was interfereing with some fertilizers.

    Or maybe your soil is uniform and it's a localized drainage issue.

  • 15 years ago

    Last year I had a similar problem & tried chelated iron. It was a quick fix only & didn't solve the real problem, which was improper soil pH. My leaves greened up for a few short days & then the problem returned.

    Soil analysis indicated high alkalinity, which I fixed by adding Ammonium sulfate. (Or is is sulfide? Can't remember & I'm not at home right now.)

  • 15 years ago

    Ammonium sulfate is a nitrogen fertilizer that, if used routinely, does acidify the soil.

    Aluminum sulfate is sold as a soil acidifier, an alternative to sulfur. It works, but most ag extensions recommend sulfur.

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks all. It seems odd to me that my soil would be alkaline in one spot and not five feet away...which if that is the issue would have to be the case as the same plant is thriving and dark green five feet away. Though not impossible, course.

  • 15 years ago

    Simcan: I'm trying to solve the same problem as yours: wet weather, clay soil, mulched with straw/horse manure. Eglantyne has bad chlorosis, only 4 ft away, Radio Times rose is thriving and dark green.

    It's a poor drainage problem. If the soil is excessively wet due to bad drainage, nitrogen deficiency occurs. I don't realize how wet that Eglantyne spot is until I saw the adjacent grass is dying from too much water.

    Eglantyne is planted in the same spot that I lost a bunch of Iris this past wet spring. Iris hate poor drainage, so do roses.

    My solution was to get the rose out, dig out all the wet clay, and throw away the limestones at the bottom, which are very alkaline.

  • 15 years ago

    My Ambridge Rose hedge gets chlorotic off and on. I wondered if it was the soil until I stuck a couple of WS2K, a Firefighter, and a Prospero in among the ARs. No chlorosis at all on WS2K, FF, or Prospero. The soil, sun exposure, fertilizer, drainage, water, is exactly the same. I can only conclude some cultivars are more vulnerable than others.

  • 15 years ago

    My Perle d'Ore suffers from chlorosis and I have decided to SP it since my attempts to adjust the ph have been only moderately successful. I have concluded that in my particular case it is the cultivar's sensitivity to alkaline conditions. I have Jefferson rose planted four feet away on one side of PdO and Thomas Affleck four feet on the other side and NurMahal directly behind PdO and they all have nice, healthy, foliage. I transplanted Perle d'Ore from another location because of the persistant chlorosis. Its previous neighbors were Cramoisoi Superieur and Lafter....both non-chlorotic.
    Molly

  • 15 years ago

    My experiences have been more like anntn's. Either chunks of concrete buried too near the roots leaching alkalinity or, in one case, a small load of excess cement dumped into a hole I didn't find when I planted until the rose looked really angry. Once removed and the soil replace to get rid of the offensive material, they greened up. Drainage could be an issue, but I'd suspect the concrete or some other material dumped and buried first. Don't you LOVE workmen? argh. Kim

  • 15 years ago

    Not to mention the pain of near injury when you strike one of those chunks as you're digging the hole. There were so many chunks in the bed we dug this spring that I had problems walking for a week from striking concrete with the spade blade.

    Since it was nearly impossible to dig out by hand, we went a different route & deep tilled it with a power tiller. It brought most of the chunks up & we sifted through the bed with our hands to remove as much as possible. I'm still having a small problem with a couple of new roses there, but it's controllable....so far.

  • 15 years ago

    Molly and Hoovb: You are right about certain plants are more susceptible. Some plants have problems getting nitrogen out of the soil when it's too wet. Some plants are more sensitive to alkalinity.

    I have a low point in my garden, perfect soil way down to 2 ft. (I ammended and removed every rock). Nothing worked there with our all week, all night rainy spring. A Japanese Maple died, so did Rose of Sharon. A Charles Joly lilac refused to grow, so I put in a Syrian lilac. It has been great for the past 10 years.

    Some plants are more sun sensitive:

    Austin catalog has Ambridge Rose and William Shakespeare 2000 in the hot & dry climate. I disagree on William Shakespeare: I have him in a pot, full sun, and he sulked. I was tired of watering him just to make him perk up, so I moved him to partial shade and totally neglected him. He finally grew and produced.

    Golden Celebration prefers shade. It had 8 hours of scorching sun in July, produced small washed-out ugly beige blossoms. It drooped constantly when I don't give it water.

    As the fall moves in, the house casts a longer shadow - Golden celebration now has 4 to 5 hours of hot sun, but cooler nights. With partial shade I neglect watering, and this golden girl finally gives me HUGE blooms, 4" and larger, with deep yellow color like the catalog's.

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