Burling is the source I've most often seen recommended here, but anyone in your area that buds peaches, etc., should be able to do it.

But start practicing yourself!

Very amateur here, & not in your soil/climate zone, but the with the little bit of fooling around with budding I've tried, I'm very impressed with Ragged Robin (aka Glorie des Rosomanes) as rootstock.

It roots very easily & accepts buds willingly. I budded the only material I had--tiny, pencil-lead or less sized buds from an own root Talisman--onto RR last summer & one tiny bud produced an over 12" cane within a couple of months.

The own-root Talisman plant is still only 12"-18". The budded stem (still on RR) is taller, thicker, & has produced at least half a dozen blooms. So, yes, in this case, the budded cane is superior to the mother plant, which is at least 2 yrs. older.

Same results with Pink Favorite--an old 1950s HT--it roots enthusiastically, throws long smooth (has some thorns, but long spaces between them) canes, & accepted buds that I didn't even try to take good care of. I budded a tiny Madame de la Roche-Lambert bud on it since my Pickering plant (I guess on multiflora) was noticeably declining. Didn't even check the bud or top off the PF above it. But I was checking pot babies yesterday & wow! there's a little mossy shoot on the Pink Favorite from the uncared for bud I taped on last year.

I've been wrapping buds with Parafilm, giving them
~2 months to take & doing most in June.

Main thing I have to say is: START TRYING--it's very exciting when even a clumsy-fingered, sloppy, ignorant amateur like me gets a good take with tiny bits of material.

Start on rootstock that roots well for you & keep the babies in pots so you can comfortably set them on a table while you make cuts, set the buds & tape them up. Plus, you can set the pots in a more sheltered area & baby them while the buds are setting.

This post was edited by bluegirl on Tue, Jun 17, 14 at 23:15

1. Will a vigorous rootstock GENERALLY add vigor to a rose?
2. How much budwood does it take to successfully bud a rose?
3. Do custom budding folks only bud on their particular wood of choice or if one is a good "budder" then is one good at all varieties of budwood?
4. Burling is not taking custom budding orders at this time.
Any suggestions?

1) if we are speaking in generalities, then yes -- if you use a decent understock, it will add vigor to almost anything budded onto it.

2) Well, assuming you have decent budding skills, the answer would be: one bud eye = one finished plant. A single bud eye, grafted to a willing understock might be all you need. But I don't know any budder who would bud only one copy and assume it will be the one that succeeds, so people generally bud at least three or four, to ensure success. My own success rate varies according to the scion variety used, and the worst success rate I ever got was with nasty old 'Grey Pearl', with which I had to bud ten sticks to get one or two plants.

3) There are undoubtedly those who have access to, and will bud onto any number of understocks. More often however, you will find a budder who has his/her preferred understock and works with that one (or perhaps a second). I have used both "Pink Clouds" and a personal selection of R. multiflora.

4) learn to do it at home. Its not difficult if you study the technique well, and practice it twenty or thirty times with "junk" wood before you move on to the real thing.

Thanks you two. Perhaps this can be my hobby when my daughters go to college?
Any website tutorials you all would suggest as particularly good?
Susan

This page has excellent photos & description

Here is a link that might be useful: Budding demo

Very similar to that budding on Fortuniana is the chip budding Burling uses. I've spent the past several afternoons budding on Fortuniana (practicing as I've not messed with it before), Pink Clouds and Cardinal Hume (roots incredibly easily and accepts virtually anything you put on it) to replicate a few things which are NOT suitable own root to make sure I maintain them. (including nasty old Grey Pearl!)

Chip budding is the easiest method to use. Playing with Huey, Fortuniana, Hume and Pink Clouds, I see why Burling prefers Pink Clouds. It appears to have a thicker cambium layer with extremely easy to lift bark and it roots like a bloody weed! The images I recently posted of the triple buds at each growth bud and the suckers with roots are of Pink Clouds.

Start practicing NOW. No kidding. Root yourself some suckers from a bush in the yard of Huey then start slapping stuff you don't care about on them until you've developed the feel for it and have an acceptable success rate. DO NOT wait until you have THE rose you've been dying to obtain to start. That's like buying a new camera you have absolutely no idea how to use the day before your round the world travels.

Parafilm is the easiest product to use. Forget budding knives. Stick with disposable, single edged razor blades. Treat them with respect and dispose of them properly. I've never cut myself with one yet and I've been using them to bud for twenty years. They're always sharp and a whale of a lot cheaper then a respectable budding knife. You could use a box cutter knife that uses the razor blades to make them easier to hold on to. I never have.

It's going to require a few tries before you get the hang of it. Take Tropero's advice and use some suckers from the yard to practice on now. Once you have the tech down and you're past allowing it to overwhelm and intimidate you, it's easy to bud half a dozen in just a few minutes when you find suitable material of something you want to replicate. Don't wait, just DO it. You will be glad you did! Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Burling's Chip Budding

I forgot to add, generally the weaker the variety, the greater the improvement budding affords. If the rose is just a "dawg", budding can make it better, but a dawg is a dawg. There have been many roses even budding couldn't make decent plants out of. Kim

Kim, are you able to bud really tiny material? Most of the things I want to bud have only the most twiggy (smaller than a cocktail straw) material to cut from.

But all the demos say to try to bud to similar size. Any tips? I have had tiny scions set in shallow gouges in the rootstock take, but it's hard.

Do you ever use a slip that has a couple of buds in a row?

Hi Bluegirl, while I can often physically get something that tiny worked, it often doesn't survive until it takes. Sequoia did it millions of times producing mini tree roses and budding new seedlings to push and observe them, but they did it under mist so the tiny material didn't dry out before it knit to the stocks. I don't have mist capabilities. Everything I bud has to live in the front walled garden where the sun hours are limited to early-mid morning with strong indirect light the rest of the day. The wind is more controlled by the high walls and there is a bit higher humidity in the area which results from the massive creeping fig wall covering, all the plants in the space and the more frequent watering to accommodate all the pots.

I usually don't attempt anything smaller than the cocktail straw guage as something that thin often doesn't work for me in these conditions. The cocktail straw is my bottom size. I inserted six buds from the thickest growth from Centre Stage yesterday into the top of a very tall (about 30") Cardinal Hume whip in hopes of turning it into a shorter weeping standard instead of an acreage eater. The best material I had from Centre Stage was about cocktail straw size.

The suggestion is usually made to match the size scion with stock as it makes it easier to match the cambium layers of the two pieces, but that isn't always possible. What if you're budding a miniature tree standard? What if the scion never generates anything as thick as the stock? It will work just fine as long as the cambium layers are matched in at least one point; the scion is NOT wider than the stock and you NEVER let them dry out until there is growth from the scion. That is one benefit of Huey over most others. It rejects far fewer scions due to water stress than almost any others.

Ralph Moore showed me many years ago that all it takes is ONE contact point between the scion and stock. He would often graft small stem pieces of thin material by inserting the graft at an angle under the bark flap on the stock. If you consider the sliced section of the tiny stem has two, thin lines of cambium layer, one on each side just under the bark, and the stock has matching layers or lines of cambium layer under its bark, instead of attempting to match these thin lines of cambium along their lengths, put the graft in at an angle so you have the potential of matching them like two small "x" s. Perhaps if you take the index and middle fingers of your two hands to represent the cambium layers of the two parts and instead of laying them on top of each other, parallel to each other, you cross them, even at a very small angle, you might be able to imagine them as the cambium layers of the two pieces. I think grafting thin stems like that offers greater chances of success than attempting to use a single bud from the thin material. The thinner the piece, the faster it dries out or fries due to heat or any direct sun. The larger the material, the more moisture it contains and the less danger there is for it to overheat as quickly. I think that might be what you meant by using a slip with a couple of buds in a row? I do root longer pieces of stock material and insert multiple buds of the same variety in them. Not to produce a garden ready plant but to establish the variety in my garden. Once you have one started, you can make as many more from it as you wish. If it's something I don't already have a plant of, why "waste" several stocks with one bud each for potential failures when you may be able to insert three, four or even more of the same variety into one stock? I've posted photos previously of the Mystique Ruffles I multiple budded in the thread to show the difference between the piece of it which rooted and the plant that I budded.

Back to matching thickness... You can easily use a thinner guage scion on a thicker guage stock, but not the reverse. As long as the bud lies flat on the stock and there is at least one contact point between their cambium layers; it's tied in tightly to insure sap flow between the two pieces (presuming the sap in the stock is flowing well - it is in active growth, and the bud doesn't dry out before insertion); and the stock is not permitted to dry out before they knit together, it should succeed.

Hopefully these will help illustrate. The main reasons for failure (but not exclusively) are too much wood on the back of the bud, preventing cambium to cambium contact. The bud on the left has no wood behind it as it was sliced out thinly. It is backed with cambium layer which will grow to the cambium of the stock and flow sap from the stock to the bud. The one on the right has wood behind it which will not knit to the stock as the wood doesn't contain what I call the 'stem cells' the cambium does, so the bud will dry out and die.
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This is "chip budding" instead of the "T" bud. It is far faster, far easier and can much more easily be mastered. I hope you can see in these photos there is the outer skin (bark), the cambium layer (the brighter green, 'juicier' layer between the bark and the pith. The white inside is the pith. Think of it as skin, circulatory system and bone. Skin and bone will not knit together as they don't flow sufficient sap and they don't contain the 'stem cells' to grow together. The cambium layer does.
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With practice, you can train yourself to slice the bark strip through the cambium so you leave a layer of cambium exposed across the opening rather than through it into the pith, leaving only a thin strip of cambium on either side.
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That will allow you to place whatever size bud you have (as long as it is not wider than the stock) on the cambium surface and tie it is securely, increasing your success chances greatly.

If you have a surface of cambium tissue, it isn't necessary to match the cambium of the scion (bud) to the cambium of the stock as the whole contact area between them will be cambium. If you've sliced through into the pith, you need to match the cambium of the bud to at least one point of the cambium of the stock. Sounds difficult and it is initially, but you quickly learn how to do it.

For chip budding, you make a cut as I've shown above, then slip the bud under the top flap to help hold it in place while you match the cambium tissues.
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I often find it helpful to use the point of the single edge razor blade I use for budding to lift the top flap edge so I can more easily slip the top of the scion shield under it, then I can manipulate the bud shield so I feel the cambium layers are in contact with one another. You can imagine how this method can make it easier to use smaller buds on thicker stocks, particularly if you've left cambium tissue on the stock when you sliced through the bark.

This is a larger bud, which is appropriate for this stock as I removed it from this piece just above this photo.
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It grew on this stick so it is appropriate in size to bud to it.

Once you have your scion situated where you want it, tie it in securely. You don't want your buds to dry out before insertion, so it helps greatly to have something like a large, clean jar lid with water in it to place your bud in until you insert it. Mel Hulse used to suggest holding the bud on your tongue between removing it and inserting it in the stock. His success rate was very high so that should work. I just don't want to do that, so I either put the bud in the container of water I hold the bud sticks (the stems I'm removing buds from) or a jar lid with water. The shallow jar lid it a lot easier than a cup of water, as you can imagine.

Here you can see how I've inserted multiple buds of the same variety in the stocks.

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There is historic precedent for multiple budding. Tree roses are often double to triple budded so you know it works. All you need is to get one to take so you can produce more. If all you have to work with are thin pieces with small buds, it will benefit you to get one growing so it will probably produce thicker canes with larger buds, from which you can more easily bud a heftier plant which is likely what you're after in the first place.

Keep your stocks WELL watered so they continuously flow sap. If they are dry and not actively growing, you're not going to have an easy time lifting the bark and anything you insert under the bark is not likely to grow. Keep your buds wet between removing them from the bud sticks and inserting them under the bark. If they dry out, they usually fail.

Keep your budded stocks well watered after budding. One of the easiest ways to lose a bud is to let the plant dry out. Many stocks are highly suceptible to bud loss due to drying out. Dr. Huey is one of the best for continuing sap flow even when the plant gets dry, which is one reason it has been so popular for commercial production.

I use moisture control soil because of my climate. I find if I only water the pot with a hose (as most of us do) it eventually dries out to the point that I have to water it nearly daily. But, soaking them in a pan of water over night or all day saturates the soil and they hold for several days until I need to water again.
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WATCH FOR MOSIQUITOES if you use this suggestion or if you have water standing in saucers! I'm not having the issue yet because the pots absorb the water quickly and what's left evaporates before they have a chance to utilize it.

I've found I'm using much less water for these pots by soaking them instead of watering them. And, they are growing significantly faster. Go figure! Soaking the pots is also pushing the newly rooted cuttings much faster, too.

I'm sure there are things I've forgotten here, but hopefully these will help give you some ideas to make it easier. Good luck! Kim

Kim, THANK YOU for the excellent instructions & fantastic, detailed photos!

You answered a question I had wondered about: why do most budding instructions show cutting into the wood of the root stock then trying to align razor-thin strips of cambium correctly when it seems like just barely scraping the bark to expose a narrow band of cambium to mate to the scion would offer more chance of successful attachment.

(And, haha, yeah, I have kept peach scions in my mouth when I have to run 100 yrds to get to the rootstock I want to bud. Doesn't seem to adversely affect them. We have an old, unknown variety tree that's a heavy producer in the front yard that I'm budding onto saplings 'way down in the orchard).

Also, so glad to see your roses with pans under them. In over 25 yrs of growing potted roses, I've found that invaluable to keep the soil from "crocking"--where the water just runs out between soil & pot without hydrating the media.

But it's so universally decried I've never advocated it though it's been beneficial in my climate/zone. I understand that in rainier areas it might lead to disease & rotting, but it's a big time, water & plant saver for me. I crumble a bit of those mosquito dunks into each saucer to reduce larvae breeding.

You're welcome, Bluegirl! I'm glad it helped. Actually, you CAN just gently peel back the bark to expose cambium then place the bud directly on it. I've wondered if that resulted in a more fragile union. I obtained cuttings and bud wood of a rose thought to be one of the Soulieana hybrid breeders from which the Week's roses were bred, but it is now believed to be an earlier Christensen Soulieana hybrid from Armstrong. It was at the wrong time of year for cuttings so I budded many to a longer whip of IXL and struck the cuttings. Of course, when you have MANY attempts all cooking at once, they'll all take so the buds took and the cuttings succeeded. These are alive and in the IXL but never pushed because it remains too dry and I've never headed it back. This one is the literal "skin graft" you mentioned.

Mosquito Dunks are a great idea and I would use them if I could keep the blamed dogs away from them. Fortunately it evaporates and absorbs quickly enough to prevent the issue here, but I can see it wouldn't in more humid areas.

I don't usually use saucers because of how "salty" our water is. It builds up too quickly, becoming toxic as it frequently does in house plants with saucers. Here, it's usually safer not to use them but allow the water to flush through to remove the excess salts. The alkalinity is extreme.

I believe you have kept buds in your mouth while running to place them! I took the cup of water out back with me so I could collect suitable buds from established own root roses so I wouldn't have to cut the canes. Moser Striped (Rainbow) begrudgingly produces inches of canes with few buds. To bring a bud stick up front with enough to supply several stocks I would have to remove a third to half the plant. Dropping them into a cup of water after slicing out the ones I wanted to use left the bulk of the plant with only a few "holes" where there weren't buds to grow. I've done similarly with smaller seedlings to keep all that mass on the plant so they would benefit from the foliage and any stored resources in the wood.

Budding fruit trees is something I haven't succeeded at yet. I've attempted it, but none have taken. One of these days... Thanks! Kim

Well done, Kim. Excellent tutorial.

Thank you, sir! I am flattered, coming from someone whom I highly respect! Kim

Have you ever tried budding & rooting together? Dmavin used to post all kinds of innovative budding & rooting techniques & was a fan of bud 'n root in one go.

I never had the nerve as most scion material was too precious & my rooting success too limited. But it would be so convenient to bud sticks while you can handle them easily, then set them in bands under mist to root while the bud sets.

I think I might try it--I have a robust Dr. Huey with nice thick smooth canes. I could bud any old thing on it just to see if that's something that would work reliably for me.

I haven't here because I have no mist capabilities nor any room in which to create them. When I volunteered at The Huntington Library propagating roses back in the eighties and nineties I did. I learned from the folks at Sequoia Nursery watching them do all manner of wonderful things with heat and mist. Mr. Moore took a three pound coffee can and poked holes around the side about an inch up from the bottom. He placed it on a mist table which was between green houses and tall trees where it received a few hours of direct sun and much filtered light throughout the day. He took disbudded (all but the top one or two) long whips of Pink Clouds and grafted two to three pieces of various miniatures just under the top growth buds to created the beginnings of miniature tree roses. Once the grafts were tied in, he would lay them down on the gravel under the mist while he worked on the next one until he had completed the number of that variety he desired, then he would rubber band all of the same variety together with a tied-on label and insert them into the coffee can where the mist would keep all the growth moistened and the water would collect in the bottom inch of the can before leaking out the holes around the sides. In literally a few weeks, as few as two weeks in extremely hot weather, they would remove rooted, knitted bud mini trees which would then be potted individually in four inch pots and placed under mist to continue developing their root systems. As they matured, they would be moved into less and less mist in the green house until they were sufficiently hardened off and could be safely moved out into the open sun where they were kept watered by overhead sprinklers on the nursery tables.

What I used what his trick of taking a long whip of a potted root stock in the green house, disbud the length you want to work with and bud as many buds of the rose you have along its length, leaving an inch or two open between them. He would tie the whip into a nearly horzontal position to push the sap upward, forcing the buds to break into growth as quickly as possible. Once they were growing, he would cut them apart and root them under mist, producing budded plants with no stock growth buds other than the budded variety. To produce the scion buds desired, he would bend a cane of the variety he wanted over as you would train a climber, for the same reason, to push it to grow "laterals". Once they started pushing, swelling, not producing leaf or cane growth yet, just swelling into larger "bumps", he would collect and bud them.

Having mist and green houses with free water (they had six wells on the six acres which were used for irrigation only); a climate with a true "four seasons" where Daphne, lilac, crepe myrtle, citrus, grapes, most berries, a very wide range of stone fruit, all varieties of redwood, ceanothus, many varieties of cherry, pomegranate, figs, loquats, quince...just about any kind of fruit not severely damaged by heavy frost in spots protected by dense, tall trees grew there. Summer visits often included snacking on berries, cherries or other treats. Mr. Moore was an absolute freak for any kind of berry. Many people (myself included) would bring him all manner of odd, wonderful berries which he always accepted with delight. And, they grew like the invasive weeds most are there! There was enough winter chill, enough water, enough organic litter from all the plants for them to grow massively with enough high heat to make them sickeningly sweet.

Usually the humidity wasn't terrible. Rust and black spot occurred, but most often on the open air retail plants which were too crowded in small pots on the tables. In really "bad" years, rust would occur on the in-ground plants, but most often it didn't. The green houses were frequently between 100 and 120 degrees F in summer, with 100% humidity. Under those conditions, there are NO diseases and NO insects! Mr. Moore would lead with me dragging behind him through that heat and humidity to see the latest discovery or seedling. That heat and humidity wore me down quickly, but he stretched like an old cat each time we'd enter one of the "saunas". In those conditions, you can bud or root virtually anything with near total success. Those conditions lasted most of the summer and slowed dramatically as fall began the cool down into winter/spring.

It was common to encounter massive "rose trees" consisting of many different rose varieties where a seedling or a piece of Pink Clouds or Rum 10, his thornless selection of multiflora from his Australian agent, Roy Rumsey, formed the roots. The trunks might be three, four or even five different roses which had been budded to the earlier plant to see how they grew, what they looked like. Since they were all seedlings, there was little concern for virus infection. Occasionally a sucker from an older seedling would sprout and Mr. Moore would propagate it to try again. Often, when I would bring cuttings, they would be removed from their bags and laid on the gravel or perlite surface of the mist tables in the mist house where they would be forgotten and root themselves in the table. Burling was able to provide the Hearst Castle tree roses a full year early because of being able to root the whips in pots in the green house and begin budding almost immediately. So, yes, under the right conditions, in the right climate, you CAN bud and root simultaneously. It usually requires high heat and extremely high humidity, tremendously greater humidity than I can generate here in So Cal. Kim

Neat! Sounds like a wonderful place *sigh*.

I picked up one of those simple mist "porch coolers" again--it used to work so well, even without an elaborate timer. Think they just run about 1/2 gallon/hour. Even if the mist heads plug up each season with our hard water, the entire set only runs ~$20.

I used to use it on a hot bed of rotted hay. That provided bottom heat & acted like an evaporative cooler to increase humidity. In late fall I'd add pvc hoops & clear plastic to cover it at night & cuttings rooted fall through winter.

Hey, whatever works! It sounds like a perfect set up for you. Congratulations! Could you soak the mist heads in either vinegar or CLR to remove the minerals if they clog? I would need to figure out a way to enclose it here due to the nearly ever-present breeze. I know you have Huey and Ragged Robin (if I recall correctly). Would you like some pieces of Pink Clouds to play with, too? It roots EASILY. Burling loves it because it remains buddable most of the year and accepts virtually anything she puts on it. It appears to me to have a bit thicker cambium layer, permitting me to do the skin patch graft we mentioned earlier. I can pop some cuttings in the mail Priority to you next week which you should have in about two days if you'd like them. Private message me through here or through Help Me Find if you'd like them so we can work out the details. I think you'll find it easy and fun to work with. Kim

Thanks! Would love some--I've e-mailed you. Got the misters set up today!

I see it, thanks! Kim

Thanks Kim. If I cannot do this after your "budding for dummies" in depth post then surely I'm not meant to do so.
I've saved all the instructions to "my clippings".
You are a great asset and mentor to this novice and I appreciate the time you take to encourage and inspire us newbies!!!!!!
Susan

Hi Susan, you're welcome! I hope it helps. Thank you! The first, most important thing to remember is, don't let it intimidate you. If it doesn't work the first time, do it again. If the buds dry out, you didn't have cambium to cambium contact or the stocks either went dry or weren't actively growing. I'm soaking them in a basin of water for a few days prior to budding to make good and sure the sap IS flowing and that they don't dry out. There are only just a few inches of water in the basins in which they sit, so there is little chance of soil souring.

Practice with stuff you don't care about. Murphy will insure they ALL take. If you have any suckers or climbing growth you want to eliminate, practice removing buds and making cuts on those. Once you're comfortable you have some idea of what you're doing, start actually budding some things to see how many take. Now should be the perfect time in most of our areas as the plants are actively growing. With practice, you'll be amazed at how small material you can slice up and bud successfully. It honestly is NOT all that difficult. It simply requires practice and the self confidence which comes from practice and a few successes. None of us is ever going to succeed ALL of the time. Trospero admitted even he has some which thumb their noses at him. Burling has some which don't make it. If THEY can have buds fail, why can't we? So, fix yourself an iced tea, get everything together in a shady, comfortable spot and have a go at it. I think you'll enjoy yourself! Good luck! Kim