They could be photos of the same rose. A handful of photos confirms nothing. If the rose is great it will make its greatness known quickly, and rise to the head of the pack of great roses. The photos and accompanying comments on HMFR clarify nothing.

I would wait and see what the future reveals. Things move quickly these days, so hopefully a wait will be short. The dust will settle soon. All will be revealed in due time. Then you can purchase your dream rose, confident that you have the correct rose that you want.

What I can tell so far is that the form starts out as quite good hybrid tea form, and when fully open seems to become a nicely quartered bloom form in some of the fully open examples shown on HMFR. Others appear a bit confused/disheveled when fully open.

Am I missing something?

Moses.

Elestrial,

You may get the clarification if you contact Monrovia Nursery, 800-999-1101, and speak to their horticulturist who grows their roses. Monrovia grows all their own plants, no contracting out to independent nurseries. They have their main facility in the Northwest. The only rose I could find at their web site was Eau de Parfum Berry Rose, Rosa Noa 11356. This number does not match the HMFR entry for Timeless Purple, Noa 38121.

I suspect Timeless Purple does not have sufficient disease resistance to be a candidate for the Monrovia Nursery folks selling it.

Moses.

Thank you Moses. I am still waffling if I'll try her or not, it's hard being patient - ha

The one Monrovia sells in the states is not Timeless Purple, a friend confirmed with the breeder that Monrovia decided to sell the sister rose, as it performed better in trials. I'm just unsure if the one Lakeview roses is selling, up in Canada is the same that Monrovia sold. Or if it's the Timeless Purple being sold in Europe

Elestrial,

Wal-Mart is selling Showpiece Berry, 1 gallon, online for $53.00, postage included. Could this actually be Timeless Purple going by its other name? Take a look. I bet it is. One of the photos on HMFR shows a Showpiece Berry with hang tag, probably bought at an in-store Wal-Mart, stateside.

CORRECTION: just double checked photo...... It's from Australia, 2023.

Going by how many mom and pop nurseries in England as seen online that are selling it, and one in particular gave it an excellent rating for care, you would think it would have made it here to the USA.

You know, you might like True Bloom True Gratitude since you like Timeless Purple. I like my recently planted TBTG so much, that I ordered two, $24.95/ea., from Wal-Mart, due in Friday! I know they will have to be carried over inside for spring planting. Not a good idea to plant outside at this time.

Moses.

Yes! I couldn't figure out if that one was the sister rose or the true Timeless Purple either

I have been trying to untangle this mess for a while now. I might just be throwing a wrench in things, but here is what I have seen. Plantaddicts.com lists "Showpiece Purple" with the code Noa11356, which is the same code that Monrovia has for "Eau De Parfum Berry". The photos look like they match to me, so I think those are the same rose.

Plantaddicts has another rose called "Flower Carpet Berry" which seems to be what other sites are calling "Showpiece Berry" or "Berry Fragrant Showpiece". Unfortunately there's no code on that page but the photos are the same as others elsewhere, and according to a writeup I read last night but can't seem to find right now, Showpiece is the new shrub division for Flower Carpet. So I think that rose might exist on various website with slightly different names. I haven't found a counterpart on the Monrovia website for Berry, but the other Showpiece introductions (Champagne, Orange, Lipstick, Blush) seem to have counterparts. I also wonder if the Timeless Purple in the video is the same rose we're seeing on sites here, because I haven't found a source other than Lakeview with that code.

I hope that made sense, sorry if I have just made things muddier. It's such a gorgeous rose.

Thanks Claudia! I find it very frustrating that other roses in Monrovia's Eau de Parfum line do match up with the European roses like Champagne and Bubbly, but they chose to go with a different rose for their Berry one. It's a shame we have to look at the registration code rather than trusting the name, and not everyone lists the code. It's all confusing. From photos I've seen shared online, the sister rose has not impressed me with the smaller, less full blooms and more thorns. It'd be nice if we can get the true Timeless Purple and I hope Lakeview has the correct one.

I heard back from Lakeview Roses, and they have this to say about theirs:

"Great question! Our genetics came directly from the breeders representatives here in North America which is not Monrovia.

Our documentation and contracts show 'Berry Fragrant Showpiece ™ ' 'NOA38121', also known as Laudatio®, Purple Voluptia®, Timeless Purple

Thanks for the video link too. I took a look with others in the office here that have more experience with the rose than I do. They both feel the video you sent matches what we carry. While it is nearly thornless on newer growth near the blooms, it is average for thorns lower on the canes.

Rachel B, who walks the fields and assesses nearly every rose, says she rarely ever labels roses as thornless unless they really truly are. She also watched the video you sent and said the crinkled look of the foliage matches the rose as well.

We feel confident you'll be getting the rose you are looking for. And it's so beautiful! Great choice!"

And then another email this morning:

"Rachel B was able to make a quick stop out in the field before heading home last night. She can confirm that Fragrant Berry Showpiece is thornless along the new growth for several centimeters below the bloom and then is average for thorns along the canes lower down. The colour matches well."

Thank you Ben!

… And to add to the confusion, Lakeview, a seller of Canadian multiflora roses, has their own Rachel, just as Palatine did 😂. (And both are spelled Rachel, not the common Rachael). They must be getting back at us for our awful tariffs by messing up our heads with multiple Berries, Purples, and Rachels!

It's funny you mention that, because the customer service person I was corresponding with was also named Rachel (Rachel A)

Not sure if it's true, but I read somewhere that Rachel from Palatine is now working for Lakeview Roses

Ben,

Do you have an idea which of the above roses is the Wal-Mart Online offering, 1 gal., $53.00 free shipping. They call it,"Showpiece Berry Fragrant Shrub Rose". Is it likely not to be the Timeless Purple that Elestrial has her sights set upon?

Moses.

Interesting. I've ordered Berry Fragrant Showpiece from Lakeview Roses.

Here's my Light Years Away which was new this year.

Moses,

I believe Walmart’s Showpiece Berry is the same as Europe’s Timeless Purple.

Carol,

Isn’t Light Years Away wonderful?

Brittany,

I wonder if someone just got Lakeview’s Rachel A mixed up with Palatine’s Rachel S. Perhaps Lakeview has their own Renee, too!

Ben - yes, I really love LYA. Have you ever tried Sweet Madame Blue? I adore mine.

To further confuse matters, a newer vendor called Redland Ranch lists a Showpiece Berry with the code NOA120803B.

https://redlandranchroses.com/products/rosa-x-noa120803b-showpiece%E2%84%A2-berry-rose

I ended up getting one from Lakeview and am debating getting another from a different vendor, for scientific purposes of course.

Elestrial,

At Ben's evaluation of the situation, why not order a Timeless Purple, a.k.a. Showpiece Berry, from Wal-Mart Online for $53.00 postage free? If you order it now you'll have it in 2-3 days. Of course, it will probably be own root, and not grafted on R. multiflora. Also, in your zone 7a, a fall planting may be dicey. If you have a winter storage place to hold it over until spring planting, at would work.

Moses.

To compound the Rachel issue, did anyone notice that the emails from Rachel Schmitz at Palatine in the last year or so of Palatine were from Rahel Schmitz? Rachel and Rahel are different spellings of the same name... Rahel is the more traditional Hebrew.

You guys are killing me with these divine new fragrant purples :-D

The renaming, reusing and confusing of rose names drives me bonkers as I am sure it does everyone else! It’s hard to compare or share information on habit, performance etc. when it’s not clear you are growing the same rose.

Noa38121 - Timeless Purple et al, sold as ’Laudatio’ on mainland Europe, has a reputation of ’excellent health, fragrance and long vase life’, given that is it less thorny with larger and fuller blooms, I wonder in what way the sister rose chosen by Monrovia ’performed better’. Did they say, Elestrial?

I don’t grow it I’m afraid, but over on the UK/Europe thread, a lady from Germany (ElbFee) does and always used to praise it highly and post fabulous photos of it. Sadly, she seems to have dropped off the forum.

Ben, my favourite deliciously fragrant purple is ‘Palais Biron’ aka European Purple Lodge. I have always wondered what the US Purple Lodge really is because that looks a lovely rose too..

No purple stays purple for long in my brutally hot summers though, most turn magenta then fry. I have weeded most of them out, Including Palais Biron - but then I couldn’t bear to part with it at the last and rescued it from the bin!

Moses - thanks! I ended up ordering it from Lakeview yesterday, but it's good to know Walmart's is correct too if I want to order another one in the future. I'd prefer spring delivery for this one anyway because where I plan to put it doesn't exist yet - ha! Not sure if I (or my helper, aka husband) have the willpower to tackle that so soon

Nollie - They mentioned disease and also performance, here's exactly what Tesselaar said about it: "When we originally sent plants to the USA for trial we had a number of selections. At Tesselaar we decided that NOA38121 [Timeless Purple] wasn't as disease resistant as we would like and decided NOA11356 was a better performing plant overall. Monrovia were happy with NOA11356 so we let them release that one under the Eau de Parfum branding. They are 2 different varieties, but we feel NOA11356 is the better performer"

I wish we had the correct Purple Lodge here in the states. She is absolutely beautiful

Claudia - Maybe that vendor is just as confused as we are with all the berry names and went with the wrong one!

Carol - Your Light Years Away is stunning

Elestrial - seems like quite a few of us are getting Berry Fragrant Showpiece/Timeless Purple. :) Darn, I was hoping for excellent disease resistance with this one. I guess time will tell. Thanks about my LYA...very disease resistant and fragrant.

Elestrial,

You never know how well your Timeless Purple will do for you under your care, in your garden. Don't let reports on its disease resistance worry you. Perhaps planting it in the new spot where you have the best air circulation there will help it better overcome its disease resistance shortfalls. I know that in my deep bed garden, 8'+ deep, the roses in the middle show more black spot than the same varieties growing closer to the front or at the back (the back's a chain link fence).

At any rate, I wish you great success with your Timeless Purple, a remarkably beautiful rose.

Moses.

BTW, my two, 2 gallon, True Bloom True Gratitudes came today. I'm rushed now, but will attend to them later after I return home from running errands. The one I opened has 5 blooms. They're small, but have the correct saturated color typical of True Gratitude. The bush itself is large and well grown. They were shipped from San Antonio, Texas, on Tuesday, and arrived here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on Friday, three days later. Not bad!

Thanks Moses! I haven't tried any of the True Bloom roses, but I've heard good things about them. That's great they arrived so quickly from such a distance. Did you order them from Walmart?

Yes, Elestrial, they were ordered from WAL-MART Online. They are 2 gallon size, and are really 2 gallon size bushes, not a gallon sized bush in a two gallon sized pot. They were $24.95 ea., free shipping after $35.00 order total, so I purchased 2, both needed.

Moses.

Wayside’s variety, Eau de Parfum Berry is listed as only having 17-25 petals on HMF. Personally, I’d much rather have Showpiece Berry/ Timeless Purple which has 60-80 petals, or Light Years Away 100 petals. I don’t care about disease resistance, in hot / dry California, and even if I did, I’d still want the higher petal count variety.

Nollie,

I like European Purple Lodge more than the American. Ours grows very well, but flowers are small and often more crimson than purple. My vote for most fragrant purple is Lavender Crush, which contends for most fragrant rose of any color

Susan,

Timeless Purple (Flower Carpet Berry), Meilland’s Purple Aura, Light Years Away were all at my local nursery looking and smelling terrific, I wish I had space for all of them.

Ben, I completely agree. I prefer the bigger, fuller blooms on Timeless Purple vs the Eau de Parfum Berry. If that means a little blackspot, I'm totally okay with that trade off

Your lavender crush is beautiful. I have one by our front door and the fragrance is outstanding. I just wish it didn't crisp so much in the heat

Ben - I got Purple Aura and Light Years Away as bareroots this spring. I love them both. Purple Aura can get such wonderful dark colors. I didn't know that Lavender Crush is such a good rose. Thanks.

Elestrial - you have Lavender Crush too? It might be very good for me, as we don't get much heat here.

Purple Aura

Sweet Madame Blue is another really good rosebush. I love the fragrance!

Black spot pressures are high here, few escape, but I would still go for the fuller-petalled one too.. if I were still in the market for purple roses.

Quid pro quo, Ben! Lavender Crush and many of the later Carruth/Weeks roses are not available in the EU, so far as I can see.

Carol - Wow, Purple Aura was one I was considering, yours looks beautiful. How is her fragrance and health? Your Sweet Madame Blue is also fantastic

I really like Lavender Crush's frgrance, and as an added bonus it wafts well too. Healthy. She is rather stiff though and hard to train, I have her on a tall, narrow trellis which was a mistake

Elestrial - thanks! It has a very nice clove or cinnamon scent, depending on the day. It was very healthy for me. Sweet Madame Blue is a tried and true rose here, and I heartily recommend it. :) Oh....that's why I've never thought about...it's a tall one. But...since it's stiff, that may be okay. Hmmm...I'll see if my regular place has it when the list comes out. :) Thanks!