#1 2011 image from OP

#2 2011 image from market in Temuco, Chile

#3 2011 image from Lanin Nat'l Park, Argentine Patagonia

#4 2012 image from Zoological Park, Norfolk VA (below)

#5 2011 image near Dumbarton Oaks, Wash, DC

#6 2014 image from Baltimore City (below)

#7 2019 image, Mystic, CT

#8 2015 image Barnes Foundation, Phila PA (below)

#9 Current image from SE Penna garden, total of 8 MP trees planted at entrance.

#10 Current pic of Maryland vendor selling MP trees. Large size @ $450. These trees were shipped from Wash/Oregon grower. There are no commercial growers of MP trees in eastern US. (below)

People still can't resist the lure of these, apparently. Although I'm a little surprised by this display from Longwood - unless they are just really expensive cool season annuals. ;-) I have to wonder if Pierre Dupont is rolling in his grave because I recall reading somewhere he didn't like planting things that showed winter damage or didn't hold up well. There was already a MP tree somewhere within the gardens that IIRC didn't last. These look to be near the entrance.

A curious coincidence. I wonder if one of the name brand PNW wholesalers had a overrun of these or something, and offered them to Scott and Longwood for a much more reasonable price than usual. Or, perhaps, just in our short attention span, increasingly superficial world, the institutional memories of these places has gone down the drain and nobody remembers, "wow, we already tried that" "a bunch of times". There's a book I've alluded to before, written in the 1940s, about horticulture in the great gardens of the Delaware Valley region. I'm pretty sure Monkey Puzzles are mentioned in it as having been tried and failed. I found another primary source in google along the same lines, saying many of the Gold Coast estates on Long Island had tried them in "The Golden Age of American Gardens" as Mmes. Weller and Griswold referred to it. None are known to our modern era! The Barnes tree is the lone exception in a place like that, and the Baltimore and Silver Spring trees in private gardens. Last time I saw the Silver Spring tree it was not looking too happy, as though the recent super rainy summer periods we've been having were not to its liking.

The Scott trees especially, are not thoughtfully planted. Unless that soil is far more well draining than it appears. The Phytophthora spores are already sharpening their knives.

davidrt, much history isn't taught anymore -- hasn't been for a long time.

All I can add is that it is dead easy to grow from seed here. I don't know many local nurseries that don't have a selection of these for sale, most in quite small sizes, as the larger it gets, the less friendly or cooperative it is about planting.

A former associate had quite a reputation with these trees, known locally as sort of a Johnny Araucaria-seed :-) He would either knock down the cones or collect them and disperse the seeds through local neighborhoods. There are probably more than a few young monkey puzzles growing in Seattle thanks to his ministrations.

Lots of very mature trees here so no shortage of seeds.

This webpage by "Louis the Plant Geek" has pics of MP trees at Polly Hill Arboretum (MA), Staten Island (NY), even one in Niagara-on-the-Lake (ON).

Thanks, that's a good website I sometimes reference as well. Other than the very scrappy Buffalo area tree, we've seen these all before. The Polly Hill tree has grown astonishingly slowly, even for a MP. The Staten Island tree is the one someone was claiming to be 40' tall, it isn't. I'm glad the MP near Dumbarton Oaks (the DC tree he visited) is doing well, but it was planted after 1994, the last extraordinarily cold winter in the DC area. (The polar vortex winters I'd say were merely very cold) I think it's those kind of winters that kill most of the ones that aren't wiped out by the summers ;-(. I think the tree vaguely remembered in local plant lore near Navy Elementary School, in western Fairfax County, VA, was killed either in 1985 or 1994.

Shown here is an araucaria with a dirty underwear problem, location N. Carolina

Yeah that's the "Parana Pine" mislabeled in this article: https://www.crozetgazette.com/2018/01/04/in-the-garden-dinosaur-food/

A FAR easier tree to grow. I have started them from seed, they are vigorous and don't mind hot weather at all. However they are barely zone 7b hardy although that one at NCSU will soldier on until one of those extraordinary winters comes along again. Plants I've grown or tended have ended up in Texas, Alabama, and North Carolina!

It's kind of comical landscaping on the part of Swarthmore. "Let's surround this tree that is slowly dying due to a lack of adaptation to our climate with other plants that will die due to adaptation to our climate" haha. Is this the "slowly dying" garden? Look I'm all for progressive, thoughful horticulture. The American approach is just dunderheaded. Australia has whole nurseries that sell grafted WA proteaceae to survive in the SE of AU. Whole sections of their botanical gardens featuring such plants. Little Australia, a country of barely more people than the NYC metro area. Former Australian poster Peter has grafted Monkey Puzzles on Bunya bunyas to survive for him. If the Lewis Ginter or Norfolk Botanical Garden had a post on social media saying they'd grafted MP onto Parana Pine to potentially survive long term in tidewater Virginia, I'd be the first to congratulate them. As it is, 'we're not there yet' LOL. I cannot get a single PNW nursery to graft rhododendrons. SO glad I didn't go into horticulture as a profession. Not in this country anyhow. If you're a professional: even being on this forum, you're not part of the problem, so don't 'take it personally'.

If you love this tree enough to continually start or bump threads about it here, you surely love it enough to buy this book: https://www.huntspost.co.uk/news/david-gedye-publishes-book-on-monkey-puzzle-tree-1-6284174

What a nice New Year's gift. HERE is a youtube uploaded yesterday of the #5 tree on my list above. The walls of Dumbarton Oaks (Georgetown) can be seen in the background.

HERE is a youtube of #7 above from Mystic CT. Great that the youtuber was considerate enough to make the video and share it. How much longer the tree will be there is anyone's guess.

The idea behind these examples of east coast MP trees assembled in one thread is to highlight them as well as show their rarity and limitations.

Mystic is a 6b location on the eastern CT coast. That plant isn't very big, if it was big when planted, it might have even been planted after the PV winters. (although I wouldn't count on it - they aren't very fast growing) Honestly, It doesn't look great _now_.

I found a primary source years ago implying various Gold Coast of LI estates (other side of the sound, zone 7a) had tried monkey puzzle trees. As we would well expect them to have done. Are any mature ones known? The only one remotely able to called mature that far north is the odd runt of a tree at Polly Hill on Martha's Vineyard. If its date of planting is to be believed.

Again I just think we need to be realistic about the fact that these are NOT even remotely new to horticulture. If even 5% of the ones planted on the US east coast since Menzies found them in 1795 had survived, they'd be everywhere!

My last pix on this thread are from the lath house at the Raulston Arboretum in Raleigh. HERE

is a recent video from that arboretum, scroll ahead to 9:46. It appears that this tree is an F2 hybrid originating in Argentina. It will be great observing and evaluating how this tree does over the next few decades There are two strikes against this unnamed hybrid, 1. It doesn't have the structural appeal of female parent 2. difficult to propagate from cuttings therefore not available in the trade.

The Rockville, MD Monkey Puzzle. Maryland state champion??

Photo by Boca Joe

It's the east coast champion for now ;-)

Looked pretty good the last time I saw it a year or two ago. In other posts I have documented its growth from the first picture (35mm back then) I took in the early 2000s.

Hi NoVA Dave and thanks for the pic. That may well be the only MP tree of any substance in Maryland.

See #6 in my pix above with the owner standing in front, this is near Mt Washington, Balto City. Sad to say it, here's what it looks like today. Another one bites the dust.

.

AFAIK, #4 on my list above is still happy and healthy.

I saw my comment from last year that contradicts mine from this morning. The Silver Spring tree had a couple small brownish branches, hopefully the baltimore tree is not a harbinger of things to come. I guess when the only alternative seems to be dead, I'm grading on a curve!

Wonder if NCSU's tree was genetically tested. Looks WAY more like a small parana pine. If it's "F2" that means it could be a monkey puzzle X parana pine backcrossed onto parana pine and thus only 25% MP.

"1. It doesn't have the structural appeal of female parent"

Not really true because old parana pines have arguable a more picturesque habit than monkey puzzles - however I don't know if many in the US have gotten to that stage. Certainly haven't seen any myself in California. Grimshaw et al. seem to wonder if some northern hemisphere cultivated Parana pines are actually hybrids. Could be. https://treesandshrubsonline.org/articles/araucaria/araucaria-angustifolia/

UPDATE: found in an email that the Barnes tree above, now dead, was planted in 1960! I think our PNWers can corroborate my hunch that that is a rather small one for having 55 years of age at the time of that picture???

Hi Sam, I've posted all the Monkey Puzzles that I've spotted or heard about in this thread: Link

Let me know if you'd like me to post all the Monkey Puzzles that I know about on Long Island in this post which I did in the other thread. The links will be through Google Maps.

Here's a photo of one I spotted and took a picture of in Oceanside, New York on Benjamin Road on Long Island.

Long Island should be close to optimal for them as east coast conditions go (sandy soil, not too hot in summer, low propensity to drop below 0F) yet we don't see many bigger than this one.

I do appreciate that they made the effort to get their Christmas lights on it though!

Here's another one in Westbury on Pleasant Ave. The photo is from Google Maps from 2019:

Here's another one in Woodmere on Central Ave:

hi stuartlawrence, your Oceanside tree is impressive and thank you for including it. By all means include any other Long Island trees as long as you know they are still there.

Perhaps the most relevant statement on this thread was by salicaceae: ....they are notoriously susceptible to Phytopthora in warm, wet areas. That explains why they are short lived in eastern US. MP was introduced to the Botanical world in 1795 by Archibald Menzies. They are few and far between in Eastern US. Compare to Dawn Redwood first planted in the US in the 1940's and today are really very commonplace lacking disease/insect problems.

When I took the above pic of the F2 hybrid at Raulston Arb, the director Mark Weathington told me The A angustifolia parent makes it much less susceptible to fungal root issues. The Plant Delights catalogue carried the hybrid for a couple of years but no longer.

If nothing else this thread will serve to warn conifer enthusiasts about the pitfalls of planting this tree in eastern US.

Here's one at Hofstra University in Hempstead which was planted in the mid 90's. The photo is from their Facebook page:

Over the years I've learned information about Monkey Puzzles from various landscapers and growers. What I've heard is that when planting Monkey Puzzles on Long Island, New York or a neighboring state is that they should be planted near a house. It's better than out in the open and completely exposed because the house will help keep the tree warmer in the winter and provide some shelter.

Several of the Monkey Puzzles I see planted on Long Island are planted near a house. Also they should be planted in mid may and never in the summer or fall. This helps them establish enough to survive the winter. Also I was told from a nursery owner who sells tree's on Long Island but grows hundreds of Monkey Puzzles in Oregon is that they like very little water and that I should never water them. Also they should be planted a few inches mounded up which will help improve drainage.

Here's a MP that was planted in 2014 or 2015. It was still there as of 2020 but I haven't checked on it this year yet. This photo is from 2016 and it's located in Oceanside, New York on Court Street. You can see how it was planted near the house.

Here's a link to a nice sized one in Delaware which was posted on Facebook group. Here's the link if you're on Facebook: Link

thanks stuartlawrence, you've uncovered more MP trees than anyone else on these forums. I am unaware of any MP trees south of Virginia, I'd love for someone to document same with pix or links.

Some of us don't want to have accounts on Facebook...can someone post a screenshot or something of the tree in Delaware?

Here's the Delaware Monkey Puzzle Tree

Thanks that about the size of the southern NJ tree I posted on some years ago.

Looks like the Silver Spring MD tree is the reigning east coast champ for now.

I visited the Monkey Puzzle in Oceanside on Court Street today and unfortunately it's not there anymore. I have no idea if it died or the owner just decided to remove it.

South of Virginia? I was surprised to see a monkey puzzle tree at the Georgia Southern University, Armstrong campus, in the Conifer collection. Struggling in the heat and humidity of Savannah of course, but living. I'll try to take a picture and post the next time I pass by.

thanks Max Hess, documenting MP trees down in Dixie is always difficult because Cunninghamia is commonly known as Monkey Puzzle there.

If you're going to be in Savannah you might swing by and check out the A. angustifoia in the nearby Atlantia Botanical Garden and see if it is still there, reportedly 36' high:

That is clearly the more sensible species to grow south of Virginia: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1899698/araucaria-angustifolia

Or grafting monkey puzzles onto it as Dean plans to attempt!

FWIW Savannah is a 3.5 hour drive to Atlanta...

The specimen at Georgia Southern University, Armstrong campus, is definitely an Araucaria araucana--not a China fir/ Cunninghamia lanceolata. If I am able to get an image, you will see. As for Bunya Pine and Parana Pine, I have specimens of both doing well in Coastal Georgia as well as specimens of Araucaria cunninghamia, Cook's Pine from New Caledonia, and Agathis robusta.

As for the Parana Pine at the Atlanta Botanical Garden, it was cut down, sadly,, when an incoming director didn't like the optics of the large tree in front of the Conservatory.

The specimen at Georgia Southern University, Armstrong campus, is definitely an Araucaria araucana--not a China fir/ Cunninghamia lanceolata.

I didn't see anyone saying it wasn't?

Would love to see a pic of your bunya bunya and cook's pine. I can imagine the former surviving long term in coastal GA (albeit not without injury in severe winters) but not the latter.

hi stuartlawrence, I didn't see THIS one on the Palms & Cycads forum thread. Do you know about it? Pic is dated 10-04-17, location near Central Park Zoo, Midtown Manhattan. Don't know if it is still there or not.

Hi Sam, I'm not familiar with the MP at the Central Park Zoo but I believe there's one at the Bronx Zoo. I spotted it 2 years ago on a nature documentary series covering the bronx zoo. Their MP is mentioned here Link:

Here's another one which I spotted in Baldwin on Mildred Drive: The first photo is in 2012 from Google Maps and the second photo is the one I just took:

Hi everyone, a couple of years ago Dave in NOVa posted about the MP in Rockville MD. HERE is a recent youtube about that tree in a 1950's development in Rockville. That would be Maryland's champion. So far appears disease free, fingers crossed.

Holy cow, sam. That MP is really impressive. Too bad it doesn't have a pollinator.

Bunya, Harris Neck, Georgia

Hoop pine

Agathis