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dottyinduncan

Fertility Question, Something's Missing

13 years ago

I have an area of the veggie garden that has been built up by layering grass clippings, shredded leaves and in the past, some donkey poo. The base soil is clay-like. This year, the soil was loose and friable so I planted my tomatoes in one area, and a few potatoes in another area. The greenery grew, but the actual fruit is a poor crop. Likewise the potatoes. I had much better production from another area of the garden that didn't have as much amendment to the soil.
We have had a very hot summer and I likely underwatered, but I think something is missing from the makeup of the soil. Any thoughts?

Comments (13)

  • 13 years ago

    Is this layering all incorporated together by this time? Have you had a soil test done?

    I would seriously consider planting a cover crop this fall and getting a professional soil test done sometime between now and the next growing season. I might wait until after the cover crop is worked in, as that can certainly influence the test outcome.

    Without a test, you really have no idea what might be lacking or how to proceed.

  • 13 years ago

    First, gardengal is right - if you suspect a nutrient deficiency the ONLY way to find out is a good soil analysis. Based on what you state, I would suggest a fairly complete analysis including micronutrients and boron as well.

    That said, your issue might not have been a deficiency, but rather an excess - specifically of nitrogen. Did you use any supplemental fertilizer of any kind, organic or traditional inorganic, maybe some blood meal or fish emulsion or more manure? If that were the case it just might not show up in the analysis. The reason I ask is because your description is the greenery grew, but not fruit. Both tomatoes and potatoes will respond to high N levels with lush greenery at the expense of fruit and tuber production. High N levels will reduce yields of both.

  • 13 years ago

    Thanks for the responses, I know the only way to tell is a soil test but they are so expensive for such a small area of the garden. Yes, the layers are all incorporated now and the soil still looks light and good, if a little dry. I didn't add any amendments when planting, perhaps I should have just tossed in some 6 8 6 to give things a boost. I like your idea of green manure over the winter. That would be fairly easy to do here.

  • 13 years ago

    The soils pH will affect nutrient availability and soil nutrients can have an adverse affect on one another if one is too abundant. For example plants need Calcium, but they need Magnesium to utilize that Calcium but then too much Magnesium can interfere with the use of Calcium. So a good soil test is necessary so you know what the soils pH is as well as the balance of the Ca and Mg and the Phosphorus and Potash levels.
    AgCanada does not do soil testing, at least not for the average backyard gardener, but they should be able to provide information about some soil testing labs you can use. Be aware that some labs may provide much more information then you can use.
    In addition these simple soil tests can be of some help.
    1) Soil test for organic matter. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

    2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drainsâ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

    3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

    4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell.

    5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.

  • 13 years ago

    dotty - In my experience the cost of a decent, complete soil analysis ($US 35-45) every other year or so is more than saved over the period in money and effort not wasted on missteps.

  • 13 years ago

    A good, decent, analysis of soil can be obtained from most of the universities in the USDAs Cooperative Extension Service for between $9.00 and $15.00 US, and a test about every 5 years is quite enough. Private labs tend to be much more expensive and often do not provide the information needed to act on the test results. If one were to test for heavy metals in the soil the $35 to $45 US dollar cost might be warranted.

  • 13 years ago

    kimmsr - the cost you cite might be right for a basic soil test, but if you add micro's (not heavy metals) and B, or OM, the cost goes up.

    TAMU prices:
    Routine (N,P,K,Ca, Mg, Na, S and conductivity): $10
    Add Micronutrients (add Zn, Fe, Cu, and Mn): +$7
    Add B: +$7
    Add Organic material: +$20

    An important point on picking a soil lab - choose one that is well suited to the regional soils for your area. U Mass offers some great prices, but their methods (Modified Morgan extraction) are ill-suited to the high CEC, clay soils of TX.

    If you don't have a State lab, there are private commercial labs that offer testing at prices about the same as the TAMU lab cited above.

    Heavy metals (pollutant metals) shouldn't be needed by the home gardener unless they have reason to believe they have metal contaminated soil, which is unlikely. The cost for those analyses is typically quite expensive - hundreds of dollars.

    In dotty's case, because of the growth issues she noted, which could be a result of micronutrient issues, I would suggest routine + micro's + B, TAMU price for that would be $24. A&L Western in CA includes OM in their routine for $14, and the complete package with routine (including OM) plus micro's and B comes to $35. By TAMU standards that's a bargain.

  • 13 years ago

    Also, the poster is located in Canada and does not have the same sort of access to extension service labs. Plus, none of the west coast states (Dotty is in B.C.) extension services offer soil tests any longer. Private labs are the only way to go.

    A local (western WA) soil lab does a 'complete" test for $42 and what they call a 'soil assessment package" for $47.50. This is recommended for soils that have been amended with manures, compost or other OM that might have affected nitrogen levels and salt content (tests include nitrate nitrogen and sodium.

    Personally, I do not think a soil test needs to be done very often but I DO recommend at least an initial baseline test so you know what you are dealing with. Unless one is doing a lot of very heavy cropping - more so than just seasonal vegetable gardening - additional testing is seldom necessary with the routine addition of compost or organic fertilizers.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Twiss Analytical Labs

  • 13 years ago

    Another to consider, link below -- located in CA.

    I like every 3 years, unless you're working on a problem.

    Here is a link that might be useful: A&L Western Laboratories

  • 13 years ago

    To dottyinduncan; are these ferts you've added aka-6-8-6 organic? Synthetic ferts can have a negative effect on the soil microbes and thus have a negative effect on organic amendments and the resulting benefits.

  • 13 years ago

    Shipping soil samples into the United States is a very difficult and probably expensive process. Telling someone in Canada about soil testing labs in the United States does not help much.

    Here is a link that might be useful: About shipping soil samples

  • 13 years ago

    Shipping soil samples into the United States is a very difficult and probably expensive process. Telling someone in Canada about soil testing labs in the United States does not help much.

    Here is a link that might be useful: About shipping soil samples

  • 13 years ago

    I believe there are some simple exceptions for much of Canada. But if it's a problem, there is A&L Canada - link below

    Here is a link that might be useful: A&L Canada Soil Testing