Not minus anything -- has too many fines. I use quarter-ten.

what is quarter-ten

The best thing to use to amend clay soil, for growng plants, is organic matter. Rock dusts or fines in extrmely large quantities might open the clay up but will contribute nothing for the soil bacteria to live on.

I would add manure as well.I ve herd rock dust is high in minerals is this true?If so would clay that has been limed well with fines give plants lots of nutrition?

The clay particles are mineral, so by adding rock dusts, crushed stone you are just adding more minerals to the minerals you already have. Animal manure is organic matter, so along with vegetative waste that would provide a food source fort the Soil Food Web that could feed the plants you are trying to grow that the mineral component of soil cannot.

Thanks for the info! I'm definitely adding manure and compost. This is a new garden plot. I've always just brought in good soil before, but that's getting a bit spendy with the garden getting so large. I'll also be cover cropping it this fall. But as it is now (just tilled and disked) it's very heavy clay. I just want to make sure add the right stuff to get veggies growing there. So I guess I'm just wondering if the fines or quarter ten plus all the other stuff would be good to open the clay up some and grow some big crops.

What your soil, as with most every soil, is organic matter, you wanty to end up with about 5 to 8 percent organic matter in that soil eventually. Buying "topsoil" or "garden soil" means you get a soil with maybe 5 percent organic matter and 95 percent mineral, something you already have large amounts of. Adding compost, leaf mold, manure, organic matter at the rate of 100 percent will increase the level of OM in your soil sooner then adding that "topsoil" or "garden soil".

Not on the particle size but what type of rocks are going into the crusher will make a difference. Limestone (basic) or granite (slightly acidic, I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

The comments above about adding organic matter are certainly true...if you did decide to add crushed rock, you would have to add an appropriate amount of additional organic matter to bring the crushed rock up to the recommended levels.

There could be an advantage to adding mineral matter here, for example if the clay doesn't drain in your (very wet?) climate, raised beds could be a good thing.

Thnks ya all for your info.What is the best most available crushed rock for very poor draining clay soil.I do plan on raised beds 4 Foot wide and how ever long.And organic material ass well with cover crops for the winter.

We don't know much about your area so it's hard to advise you on crushed rock. Rocks vary by region, so if you are really going to do this, you are going to have to find out what is available from quarries in your area. Where I live it's all quarried limestone or chert river gravel. UP where you are it might be mixed metamorphic rocks from glacial outwash, I don't know. Call your quarries to find out.

We never did learn from jean001 what "quarter-10" is...possibly it's the size range between 1/4" and 10-mesh which is 2 mm or 0.07". Just a guess. Around here we can get limestone 'quarry fines' which is 1/4" minus, all the way down to powder. I wouldn't put that on the garden for the same reason jean001 stated - too many fines.

Personally, if I was going to pay for rock which has very little nutritive value, I think I'd pay a little more and get some good topsoil. But it's your garden.

Yeah that makes since to me.My dirt and garden sight is in the west of the cascades in Oregons wellamete valley.My plan is to lime the dirt and add horse manure compost on four foot wide raised beds.I will go with the large amounts of organic matter and homemade fertilizer,I have done a clay test for the dirt and i have alot of fine clay and sand and some silt.The crushed rock around here is mostly river rock.The smallest was 8minus.

Is the pH very low? Just curious why you're adding lime. I've heard it is on the acidic side up there but you want to make sure you really need lime before you add it. About the only thing that can be added at will and rarely do any harm is...compost!

Hi Neighbor !

I'm up here in Portland and an old time gardener. We have wonderful soil, though a bit on the clay side until you've added organic matter for a couple years. Your raised bed idea is the way to go.

The most common mistake I see people make in making raised beds is not allowing for drainage of the path between beds..which results in a cold, muddy swamp between rows most of the year, and those dear folks give up. So plan ahead. The beds are going to drain, so be sure the path in NOT lower than the surrounding yard.

For the path I used to lay a variety of things down and top with a mulch of some sort, but over time I see that was really wasted effort as I am a year round garden person, so where ever I step when it's muddy ( most of the time) gets compacted.. really compacted. I'm adding a mix of chipped hardwood and softwood to my paths now with no underpayment, and it has formed the nicest soft cement paths one could ever want. Nothing grows there.. ever. So go ahead and start with layers of cardboard and a mulch for now..then see how your winter interest holds up. We really only have a few patches of time when it's just too darn cold to be out there doing some little thing.

Once it starts raining, watch where you step. Any path will turn into concrete type area when used often enough. With no mulch.. a very slick concrete area. Wheee..... On the plus side.. nothing will grow there if walked on often enough.

The soil here.. up and down the valley between the coast range and the Rockies, through Oregon and Washington is slightly acidic, but just right for most plants. Mine tested at about a 6, which is well within range for most veggies. The only thing I add dolomite lime to is my asparagus since it wants a more alkaline soil. I have in the past added it to a newly seeded lawn.. just because that's the way things have always been done, but I'm not sure it was really necessary.

Not adding lime has the advantage of not needing to remember when every three years is and having a good solid base in the whole yard so if you want to add some plants that require a different soil, you know exactly where your starting from. I do add peat to my rodies, azaleas and blueberries . Perennials that want a more alkaline soil get placed near existing concrete, since that provides a slow steady leaching of lime over the years and no PH upkeep by me.

If you do choose to add lime, be sure it's dolomite, and not the fine powder that releases too fast. Use at half the recommended rate, with a PH test before and at 3 to 6 months after to be sure your not over shooting. Then keep track of which year you added since it's a three year fix. Keeping the lime in a leak free container and keeping notes ON the container is easiest.

Manure : Be absolutely sure it's really, really aged. Less than two years old poop has caused all my veggies to taste somewhat bitter to me. I purchase a year or so ahead, hold it, then add it to my compost to age that final year. The folks that package poop absolutely use the best , hold up to time and exposure plastic bags ever made... it's in their best interest. ;) But then, I have the advantage of being past those first gardening years. So as a newer gardener, you want to physically look and smell the poop your considering.. it shouldn't be too hard to guess the age.

You may want to check out used book stores for garden books. I started out with organic garden books by Rodale Press. All their stuff is great and I still use those books for reference. Skip the Sunset books.. too many errors for our area for the inexperienced gardener. They're fine later when we can spot the mistakes. Also any garden books printed for British gardens fits our soil and climate. I find they are particularly good at mentioning the special micro- climates we all have in our gardens, and noting soil types.

Have a wonderful time and enjoy your new hobby. Lifetime benefits. Compost, compost, compost.. we need to keep adding it.That's what will keep those slick deck of cards clay particles wedged apart and able to function. :)

Ha.. why should you trust me to be remembering right. ;)

So I found a good source for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: What Does Lime Do in the Garden?

Thanks for all of the excellent experience sharing here!

If you have time, please consider helping out a newbie with a similar situation. You can check out my post here:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ohioval/msg0920035213984.html