In my previous post I reported on the experience, as posted to another website, of a very prominent rosarian who noted in her garden JBs were attacking her roses that did not have underplantings, and that not one had attacked her roses underplanted with Nepeta and Lavender.

Because this persons eminence in the rose world, and because others (responding to her posts) noted the same effect in their gardens, I though it was worth sharing here. Obviously, the graphic (and strangely beautiful) photographs Olga posted, and the experiences of others who've underplanted with Nepeta and Lavender without deterence value against Japanese Beetles, leaves the value of these companion plantings an open question. All we can do is have open discussions of possible control options. Hopefully, a solution (or a combination of solutions) if ultimately found.

As to using Sevin on roses. If you read the label, you will see it is "highy toxic" to bees. Highly toxic means that it will kill any bee who visits Sevin sprayed roses. And if they carry it back to their hives, there is great risk to entire colonies.

Currently there is a very serious crisis with the bee population. Colonies are dying at alarming rates. The exact cause or causes of the die-off has not been conlusively proven, and their are many possible causes being investigated. What is uncontestable is that Sevin, Merit, and Bayer contain pesticides that kill bees.

Bill,

You consider rose blooms being eaten alive "strangely beautiful"? Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
I personally like mine, un-defoliated voluptuous, sexy and full.

I don't care about how "eminent" the person you quoted is this idea that Nepeta can control JB's is unfounded.

In regards to the sticky issue of SEVIN, to each his own. I know that spraying w/ SEVIN has NOT depleted the honey-bee populace in my garden. In fact, I have hundreds of bees humming & doing their thing in my garden. I don't need to justify my use of SEVIN to anyone. I actually think I'm helping the bee situation because if it weren't for my roses, (I've got 90) there wouldn't be any colony to speak of. If it is true that I deplete colonies, then WHY year after year I have more & more bees in my garden?

Shouldn't I have, by now, after 8 years of using Sevin completely done away with ANY colony near by? Can you answer that for me? I've got every kind of bee imaginable in my garden, in the hundreds so I am actually HELPING them to thrive. I am not fearful of them & they leave me alone, they are cute little buggers. There are no other gardens like mine in my neighborhood, my garden is a bee magnet, as well as hornets of every kind. I don't actively search & destroy even them, but I will wage war w/ the JB's. Only insect on my HATE list.

I've tried every product on the market before resorting to SEVIN as my mother of all weapons againts the JB war. In my garden, I do have a choice, & year after year, I win it...

Lol,

Betty

Betty I find itÂs incredible of what you just wrote. ItÂs EXTREMELY difficult for me to believe you and IÂm not saying youÂre lying LOL.
BB

You guys can argue all you want, but one thing is clear: spraying does not save your roses. By the time the spray kills, the beetle has already destroyed the bloom. And the dead beetles tend to hang onto the rose, attract more and look disgusting.

If you have a severe infestation, you can spray (and pollute) to your little heart's content, but you will not save the blooms. If you infestation is minor, handpicking and traps is enough.

Picture of sprayed bloom:

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To quote bettym If it were a choice between roses & birds or bees (which it isn't since they don't die) I'd pick my roses any day. Sorry to sound so callous, but there it is.

I hope everyone can look at bettym's posts objectively. None of us that advocate for caution when using insecticide could have been more eloquent than bettym. Her statement has without a doubt done more to turn people off of insecticides than anything we have ever said. Faced with that attitude, not many people would admit to a similar short sited thinking. We all know that Sevin doesn't just disappear harmlessly into the ether. It seeps into the groundwater and someone's child will eventually drink that water. It is tragic to kill the bees but it is worse to poison people.

I hope bettym will continue to state her agenda so very poetically.

OK I talked to some people within National Academy of Sciences and they think BettyÂs case is unique that may worth studying. They can send a crew to sample the bees and hives within 5 mile radius from her garden. If necessary they would ask to come to her garden to set traps after sevin is sprayed. Other factors may be in play in BettyÂs garden for 8 years as sevin has proven toxicity track records to bees. Betty please let me know if you would like to participate and I can get the process started.
BB

I work in a garden center. I spend much of my day telling people that sevin is NOT the answer to JB's on roses. One has to spray EVERY day...and one is NOT supposed to spray the blooms.

JB's are a problem for, what, 4-6 weeks? Suck it up. Hand pick (or knock) the JB's into soapy water. Or cut the buds and bring them in just as they are showing color. If you enjoy fruit, tomatoes, and any other thing that is pollinated by bees, you should be concerned about the bees. They pollinate a huge percentage of our fruits and veg.

melanie

I know I'm very new here, but I just have to say that I don't think we'll be seeing much more of Betty after bumblebee's latest post:

OK I talked to some people within National Academy of Sciences and they think BettyÂs case is unique that may worth studying. They can send a crew to sample the bees and hives within 5 mile radius from her garden. If necessary they would ask to come to her garden to set traps after sevin is sprayed. Other factors may be in play in BettyÂs garden for 8 years as sevin has proven toxicity track records to bees. Betty please let me know if you would like to participate and I can get the process started.
BB

I am trying to figure out how "you can spray the roots only". A puzzlement. Oh, BTW, there are "beneficials" in the soil too, what about putting the insecticides on them? Hmmmm??? Anyway, I use Bayer Advanced Dual Action Rose & Flower Insect Killer Ready-to-Spray whenever they bother me enough. Which isn't often. I'm still more concerned with rose midge than JBs. Poor Harry gets the worst of both, I fear.

I wish JBs would eat midge. THAT would be a good thing!

Kate, didn't you get that package we sent you last year? Silly us, we will take care of that right away! ;-))

This was much more fun than reading about Japanese Beetles.

Diane--you can't possibly mean me--Kate--package????

Gulp--I knew I spoke too loudly about (no JBs).

I just moved, Diane--left no forwarding address. LOL

Kate

For the person that asked, I do think that the Bayer drench (that you put on the roots) will kill the JBs, but as you said, only after they have eaten the blooms. I am finding many dead or very lethargic JBs on my roses. But the blooms are still getting eaten.

Like Ann, I have less JBs than previous years because of the drought. But since it rained today, I'm expecting more. I do have some blooms and and am picking them off.

I disagree with harry. Spraying may not help the rose that's being eaten, but it will prevent that JB from eating another rose and probably prevent it from laying eggs and making many more JBs next year. By not doing anything, you are feeding the JBs and contributing to the problem.

I will spray if the numbers increase. And I will spray if they begin to defoliate my crapapple and crepe myrtle trees. That is real damage that I can prevent. And there are no bees on those trees, so I'm not worried about harming the bees.

Listen--it makes perfect sense to spray things that the bees don't feed on, or that the bees no longer come to. (Grapevines that have finished flowering, for example.) If that's what you are spraying, Sevin, sprayed or dusted in the evening, is an excellent choice. Relatively safe to use...kills everything it touches.

BUT.

It WILL kill all your beneficials as well as the bad guys. Now, if your choice is between losing a beloved plant, or a crop, and keeping your ladybugs...then that is an easy choice to make. But, for me anyways, "the big guns" seem to do more harm than good. My JB problem is COSMETIC, not plant-life threatening. I don't bother with milky spore because I DON'T water the grass (just my ornamental beds) and, as stated previously, soil has to stay evenly moist for MS to work.

Besides, I'm one of those weird no-spray people. I have few insect problems (even the aphids are minor)--maybe because I have pretty good hort practices? I don't even do fungicides. Not so much because I'm morally opposed to chemicals...I just can't STAND the way they smell. Only spray I use is a couple of deer repellents--I Must Garden and Treeguard.

Hi! I'm back had to run tons of errands, had to buy my Sevin concentrate! Oh how I love "bugging" you PC correct robots. It doesn't seem to take much! LOL it is funny to see you all get your goat up:)

Sevin rocks baby!

Oh, BTW, BB, Yes I will post my bee pic's to prove to you that my garden is indeed TEEMING w/ bees. I think you have to re-examine your junk science. I and my bees are living proof that you are following the drum of wacko science.

Cheers,

Betty

Do you think I'd let any of you guys who have basically said in no uncertain terms that you'd lynch me for using Sevin near my property? Forget it, I wasn't born yesterday...

This thread has been fun, fun to see how many intolerant persons really roam on this forum. Scary thought you all are sooo duped to believe everything you hear. So old school and all that you know...

A picture is worth a thousand words so I will indeed post my bee's in action pics. I don't know as to weather the intolerant persons will appreciate or believe them since you all have your own political agendas I hope I wouldn't be wasting my time.

But to each his or her own, I know that there are way way more folks on here who use Sevin but are afraid to speak up for fear of being harassed & persecuted like I was, I respect your silence.:) It's OK, I have tougher skin than the JB's!

Lol & good wishes to all:)
Betty

When someone tells people to just "suck it up" when it comes to JBs, I figure they've obviously never had infestations like some of us. I've worked an entire year for this spring flush which is just beginning. Our first JB was sighted today. I'll be d*mned if I'll let the 5,000 monsters that ravaged my trees & plants last year and their 200,000 young devils kill anything else on my property. Yes, those little monsters actually KILLED ENTIRE TREES in my neighborhood last year. Between their skeletonizing the trees & root feeding, those trees are DEAD. D.E.A.D.

Last year when those monsters hatched, it looked like the lawns in our neighborhood had waves for 2 weeks. A veritable green ocean in rough seas! Disgusting. This year, many lawns are torn up by birds & skunks feeding on the grubs. Overnight we find perfectly healthly lawns, ripped apart in sections.

Not only have I spent a large amount of money & time landscaping my property, I have loved & nurtured every single tree and plant. It's the love of my plants that makes me want to protect them. If it comes down to the health and in some cases the lives of any of my plants or trees, a few bees will just have to "suck it up."

My dh, son & friends picked JB's morning noon & night 3 years in a row. We filled a large coffee can daily. Sometimes several times in one day. Yet every year, our infestations worsen. Last year we estimated 5,000 in our front yard alone. Considering how large my neighborhood is, it's not unreasonable to assume we had half a million JBs in the 'hood. So no, knocking the monsters into a coffee can isn't going to work. It didn't then, and it sure won't now considering each female lays 40 eggs.

I'll spray if I have to. I wish I could nuke 'em. =)

Wow this has been a very interesting read. While I absolutly hate JB's, I love the environment. I guess I am lucky in the fact that I don't have the infestation that many others have. I am jealous of Betty's JB free rose garden, it must be absolutley beautiful, but I am unwilling to risk the health of many other living creatures just to keep my roses JB free. I respect her choice and wish her the best. I personally don't find spraying to be effective as it kills the blooms along with the beetle. Luckily for me the JB's are the least of my problems. Black spot and thripes cause me much more of a headache as they are around a lot longer and cause much more damage. I wish you all gardens full of flowers, birds, bees and happiness. Please be kind to the environment it's much harder to repair than to it is to preserve.

Rob

Everything in moderation. That's my view. I've used sevin, now I use the Bayer insect spray.

I'm sure sevin and other sprays kills bees, if you spray it on them or they come to the bloom after you have sprayed. But you can spray the jbs and limit the spray on the bloom. And no, the spray does not destroy the bloom.

As I said before, I have no problem spraying trees whose foliage is being attacked especially if there are no bees about.

mehearty, this is what you do this year. Treat your lawn for grubs in late summer. This will get rid of many of the grubs that will be JBs next year. Spray your roses or trees in the afternoon or evening when bees are not about. Use a small spray bottle and you can direct the spray where you want it. Just spritz the little buggers, you don't have to douse them. The spray will penetrate and kill them.

I also use the Bayer systematic. It eliminates aphids and will kill the JBs, but only after they've munch on the blooms.

I only use this on my roses. I have a nice big yard with lots of other plants (flowering) that don't get jbs, and don't have any chemicals, including a totally spray free butterfly garden that has many bees, butterflies, catepillars, birds and hummingbirds.

I use chemicals in my yard the same way I do in the home. For a specific purpose. I wouldn't spray my whole yard with Sevin, and I wouldn't spray my whole house with bleach.

Thanks for the info about spraying the roots of roses with the Bayer! If the fiends have to eat the flowers before they die, I don't see much point in using something that is probably pretty nasty.

But I do have a question: if, in order to kill the JBs with Sevin, you have to directly spray the beetle, what is the advantage of using Sevin as opposed to something relatively harmless, like Neem? Or for that matter, hand-picking and squashing/drowning? In my experience, in a bad JB year, if you kill one off, in about 10 seconds 3 more will show up. So even with Sevin, don't you still have to be out there spraying pretty much 24/7 in order to save your flowers?

Buford that's a great idea to treat the lawn again in late summer. We've been trying to get everyone on the street to treat their lawns for grubs before they hatch. Hopefully, our entire street will not be using the bags this year. That *may* help us (especially if the rest of the neighborhood still uses them hehehee).

We discovered this spring that there were grubs in our perennials/rose beds. The monsters ran out of room in the lawn to lay their satanic spawn. Our garden center said the grubs feeding on the roots could harm (and if bad enough could kill) the plants, so I'm doing all that I can.

Sorry to go off on a rant last night, but reading that we should "suck it up" burns me up to my beetle infested hair.

It's interesting what you said about the bleach Buford. I wouldnt spray my entire house with bleach either but I practically did last year. My son & I kept coming down with strep throat. We'd knock it out of our bodies w/antibiotics and within a few weeks time, one of us would get sick again. This went on for a few awful months. Eventually I made sure that every hard surface surface in the house had been wiped w/a cleaner that contained bleach (soft surfaces were sprayed w/lysol). I'd never consider doing anything like that before, but I knew that germ was surviving somewhere in my house. After the bleach treatment, we stopped getting strep. So yeah, I'd bring out the big guns if need be & use them responsibly. Peace through strength. =)

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Good morning all my little environmentalist wacko friends, not to be confused with true conservationists, which I am, I hope you are all doing great! Here are some photos I took this a.m. for you all. It was HOT out there LOL! had to go in the skimpy!

I tried to capture the little 'sweat bees' which was difficult since they are minute! There are more of those than JB's!. The big honey bees were there doing their cute thing.

I was tempted to stay in my garden but I chose to trudge back up to post these photos for you all. I'll be going back down after I post these SHOCKING! pictures.

BB, you said I lied about my bees & I don't expect you to believe my photos, but that is OK, you are entitled to your own reality.

Lastly, is a photo of lil ol me, just so that you know what the "General" looks like.

Oh! it is rather interesting that you never ONCE wondered as to what my mode of operandi (sp) is as far as to dosage & spraying schedule, you never once inquired as to HOW I spray, this proves that the word itself SEVIN is blinding you and prejudicing your judgement. Expand your horizons!
My mode/recipe is known only to myself, mom, & close friend, who happens to be an environmental lawyer.

Good luck in your gardens and remember, you have NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF:)

Luv ya all!

Betty

Hi lil ol Betty you should pat yourself on the head for this photo op effort. I hope you look at this objectively. As I said earlier that I was not saying youÂre lying so I was not asking for proof. I asked for your participation because the bees and hives need to be examined and studied for any new adaptations including genetic changes they have evolved over those years. No one is going to persecute you or anyone who had or have used sevin.. For GodÂs sake, this is not a communist state and sevin is available for proper use and that is not on the blooms. The late predicament of honey bees has brought attention to this country and many other countries around the globe. So we need to re-examine our use of pesticides as well as to study the bee populations where pesticides are used. Voluntary restraint from using sevin on flowers will only help.
If you read MSDS posted on GardenTech.com, section 12 you see the same old required toxic warning to bees. This toxic warning should also be on the bottle itself, under the BEE CAUTION "This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment on blooming crops or weeds. Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds while bees are actively visiting the treatment area." Beside direct contact with liquid sevin with result in dead bees, the dry form of the liquid can stick to their legs and bodies and be carried back to the hives to contaminate honey and kill young bees. And what is so special about how to use it as you should follow the directions for use on the back of the bottle.
You wrote "BB, you said I lied about my bees & I don't expect you to believe..." well I now have doubt what good I could think or believe what you have to say as I never made such statement. You can go back and re-read my postings.
This is as objective as I can put it to convey my thoughts on this subject. You can rest assure that junk science does not happen at NAS.
Love my bees
BB

Lol BB, you are right, it is darn HOT out there! the kids are in the pool on my deck as we speak, I might take a dip w/ them later on.

Again, bees are thriving in my garden & I know you believe that. I just have a problem when people making blanket statements, thus, these threads. ANYTHING misused can & will result in death, not only to wildlife but humans as well. The key word is MISS-USE, & wanton MISS-USE at that which is what leads to gross negligence of the environment later on.

Maybe you did not exactly say "Betty you liar" but you did insinuate your disbelief, Oh, it doesn't matter anyways, I have a tough hide & I don't take it personally.

I am not an an anomaly. I know there are MANY other gardens just like mine where wildlife & chemicals co-exist without dire consequences.

Hey BB, I'd love to see some pics of your garden & bees! & maybe you can get the gumption up & post one of yourself:) It's nice to attach a pretty face to these threads:)

Waiting in anticipation for your pics. Don't be shy now!

Betty Boop

The fact of the matter is, Sevin should be used with caution. Particularly around blooming plants. From Wikipedia:

"Sevin (carbaryl) â 3 - 7 days

* Sevin XLR (carbaryl) â 8 hours @ 1.5 lb/acre (168 kg/km²) or less. Bees poisoned with carbaryl can take 2-3 days to die, appearing inactive as if cold. It allows them time to take contaminated nectar and pollen back to the colony. Some crops treated with Sevin® under the wrong conditions (in bloom, using a dust formulation, with large numbers of bees in the field) have been responsible for disastrous kills. Sevin® is one of the United States' most widely used insecticides for a wide variety of insect pests. It is also one of the most toxic to honey bees, in certain formulations. There are formulations, however, which are determined to be less toxic (see tables). Usually, applicator-beekeeper communication can effectively be used to adequately protect bees from Sevin® poisoning."

I'm not claiming Wiki is without error...but all the references on the linked article checked out.

bettym grow--your pictures may prove the point bumblebee 7 was trying to make. A bee that visits a flower whose pollen is poisoned with Sevin can take that tainted pollen back to the hive, where it will poison the other bees. This isn't speculation, it's a fact...supported by scientific study. Hence the "Bee caution" printed on all bottles of Sevin. It's why the instructions on Sevin tell you one to spray in the evening (when the bees are safely in their hives) and to avoid spraying blooms.

I'm not attacking you, nor am I being PC. I have even used Sevin on occasion, though not on roses to deal with JB's. If you want to use Sevin on your roses, I'm not going to stop you. Free country and all that. I WILL tell you that the misuse and overuse of pesticides by consumers is one of the reasons some of the more effective pesticides are no longer available without a pesticide application certification. (Dursban, for example.) Eventually, I think even Sevin may end up getting banned for home use. Not because it is horrifically toxic...but because people misuse it.

mehearty--I didn't mean to belittle or denigrate your problem with JB's this year. In fact, in another post on JB's I said there are times when Sevin is a necessity...I just don't believe it's the best way to deal with JB's.

Hey, I'd like to nuke all the neighborhood deer. From orbit. At the very least, I'd like to let my BIL use my back deck as a deer blind. But I live in a populated area, and it would be illegal, as well as imprudent.

On another note, can we please stop with the ad hominem attacks? They aren't useful...and do nothing to further discussion.

melanie

Here is a link that might be useful: Wikipedia article on Pesticide Toxicity and Bees

Thank you, Melanie. Well said.

Mjsee,

If you scroll a bit further back in the threads you will come across the crux of the matter on a post I made.

I'll restate it for you: If indeed Sevin kills colonies by bees who have been infected w/ the product carrying it back to the hives, then why Mjsee AFTER ALMOST 8 YEARS OF SPRAYING W/ SEVIN DO I HAVE A LARGE POPULACE OF BEES?

Shouldn't I have done away w/ ANY colony within a large radius? And why, do I have more and more bees in my garden each consecutive year? So, no, Mjsee, this disproves the point bumblebee 7 was attempting to make.

Look at my pics, the proof is in the pudding, I know it is hard to believe that chemicals, man & bees CAN & DO coexist.

You are repeating some of the same thoughts I had on the misuse of anything in life, read my posts, better yet, read all the posts.

There are some people on this forum who definitely have severe cases of PMS, LOL, if some are men then I'll chalk it up to crotchetyness & just plain old bad moodyness.

It is all well to quote this and quote that, you can quote all the PC correct material you all like, meanwhile I'll be out in my rose garden enjoying my chew-free roses, and my tweenie sweetie bumblebeesees, as well as my hummingbirds, who come year after year to drink my toxic nectar.

BTW, You are right, Wikipedia is not the best source of correct information:)

So Sevin users, lift up your heads, don't let the wacko's get cha down. Go out there and kill those beasties!

Lol!

Betty

Bumblebee, this bettym registered on GW only a few months ago. This must be it's first post. I believe it's a troll so silly us because we all fell for it. Usually I can spot trolls faster, but I'm certain now. Best to ignore trolls.

My, aren't we full of ourselves.

Kate

Betty--actually, I don't believe any of the pics you posted were of HONEY bees. Carpenter bees and hover flies(which is what I believe the smaller "bees" in your pics are) do NOT live in hives, hence they don't share communal honey. And remember--bees fly. Long distances. Yours may be coming from other areas...where people don't spray. Or spray according to directions. You may not want to believe it, but there ARE documented cases of massive honeybee kills involving commercial applications of Sevin which was not applied according to the maker's recommendations.

The picture of the baby bird, while adorable, isn't germane. Sevin isn't considered toxic to birds.

As to the Wiki article, I used it because it was accessible, concise, accurate, and written at a level most folks, including non-chemists or entomologists, could understand. I could've cited chapter and verse from a number of dense academic papers...but didn't really see the point. Actually, I wasn't really putting the info out there for your benefit. I was putting it out there for those who read this thread.

So--to all still reading this (and it HAS been a delightful train-wreck of a thread!) do your own research. Make your own decisions and choices. That's the nice thing about being adults... We are free to draw our own conclusions and form our own opinions.

bean_counter...

You posted while I was off double-checking hover flies. I chose to "feed the troll" with accurate info...because non-trolls might be reading as well. But you are correct about feeding the trolls!

melanie

That's OK mjsee, you don't have to believe what you see. The point was that NO bees, be they honey, sweat, borer, etc...should be even present in my garden. I know Borer bees very well since they drill holes on the eaves of my wooden house
Did you not see my honey bee on the pink rose? Lol, I can be out there posting tons of pic's for you but you are a Doubting Thomas so no amount of pics will convince you otherwise! That's OK since I knew that would happen beforehand...BTW, won't you post some of your bee pic's?

It doesn't matter how far the hives are... There should not be ANY bee in my vicinity since I have done away w/ them after 8 years of spraying JB's. (according to some here) See how you don't even believe what you see? Now I know what Jesus must have gone through w/ unbelievers, they saw but didn't believe.

I don't believe it has been a train-wreck, you sound a little on the insecure side, since your doubting eyes have been opened a wee bit, come on deep down you know you are confused & will try very hard to rationalize your shaky beliefs.

Bean counter, you definitely got it all wrong, believe me I am not a troll, you also sound a little defensive, can you also be turning over a new leaf in your previous beliefs about Sevin being so deadly to all flying, living creatures? Or can it be you don't want a different viewpoint than your own?
If you want to label me a troll, that's OK, at least label me a sexy troll for goodness sakes! Come on, I'm a 36 D!I'd like to see your pics and see how sexy you are, maybe you have some repressed something or others...

Like I said, this goes beyond Sevin, this touches on the silliness of some people who believe everything they read, never questioning the source, this also touches on repressed anger & controlling attitudes some people have, on junk science, or PC-ness, on people who are too fearful to march to the beat of their own drum, Again mjsee you can quote, and quote and quote, but LOOK at the proof.

Cheers:)

Betty

Betty--

If you think Cornell University, NC State University, the EPA, and Bayer are all doing "junk science"...

never mind.

What do you think about the bees in my photos? What do you mjsee see?

Don't quote me names, tell me about what you see, with your eyes, in my photos? Can't you at least give me some credit for going out there in 90 degree weather to post these pics for you to look at some BEES that really should not be there? The whole point is that since I use Sevin there shouldn't be any

You know they are bees and you are changing the subject...Come on, fess up:)

Betty

I see carpenter bees (shiny abdomens) and hover flies. It is possible one of the pics I take to be a hoverfly is, in fact, a honeybee, but I actually addressed that when I said "Remember, bees fly long distances."

And I have not changed the subject. You, on the other hand, are using a classic trolling ploy (also used by argumentative political pundits) of ignoring pertinent information that doesn't fit your world view. I am now dis-engaging. Have a nice conversation with yourself.

You see oranges where there are apples! Wow!

Goodness, your powers of wishful seeing are truly amazing.

You can label me anything you like,(troll) You know I am not. I've made my point I rest my case.

Unless someone wants to keep this thread going...I'm game:)

I'm happy to have spiced up your lives a bit ya' all! :)

Mua!

Betty

Hey! Wait a minute! All this talk about save the birds,save the butterflies,save the bees!
What about the ....Japanese Beetle......isnt it
part of mother nature?And no matter how we kill
them...drowning,squeezing,spraying,..arent we killing
this food source for the predator?Let,s find out
what eats the bugs and encourage them into our yards
to balance out this over population!sitting among
my roses waiting for comments..serious or funny...

bouquet, unfortunately there is no natural predator for JBs. Not here anyway. And they are unnatural, at least in our country. So I don't feel bad killing them, it's how to kill them without killing everything else that is the problem.

Supposedly they taste really bad so no birds will eat them. Someone on another thread reported that he left a bowl of JBs out and something ate them, perhaps a raccoon.

If you are interested here is a great read on some work Mich. State. University has been doing for some years now. It shows promise & I've had my eye on it.

It deals w/ the introduction of parasites & pathogens to control JB's. There are some testing grounds here in Mi. who are conducting trials, I know of one place who is volunteering their retail plant business & according to them the program is showing promise.

Take a look! www.ipm.msu.edu/landreport/2001/insectbio.pdf

Bouquet, you are on to something! Good girl!

Betty:)

A soap box for my ignorance. Cool!

Well most of the bees around here have been croaking from mites or something. Pretty soon we will have those "Killer Bees" and will be spraying them directly with Sevin.

It will give a new meaning to "spraying in space suits."

I recommend small nuclear devices myself.

My new garden plot is planted in OGRs and most of them are done for the year, so JB's: Knock yourselves out!"

Our main problem is RRD and we need something stronger than Sevin, but is green.

Like I said: "small nuclear devices."

I think that the long term solution is what Kay mentioned. We are hoping the sparrows mutate into Mighty JB Killing Machines.

F.L.
NAGL

Buford.....thank you for the info on ..the birds wont even eat them...i didnt know this.....i love the birds that come to our yard....wouldnt want them to get sick.....or the fantastic butterflies that flutter from here to there,and love the bees that pollinate our veggies and flower blooms....on these all gardeners agree....now with the JBs this discussion has given us a list of ways to deal with them as we choose....to enjoy our love of roses.
Carol

Betty,

If you are ever in Atlanta please let me know. We may not agree on all of our gardening techniques but you are a firecracker and I think that we could share a few laughs and some mojitos on my back patio. You have spunk and can obviously hold you own in an debate. Happy gardening.

Rob

Rob,

Mojitos? did you say Mojitos? I'm Cuban so I enjoy a good mojito or a Cuban style daiquiri any time!

Thanks for the compliment, and if I'm ever in Atlanta, I'll bring the rum:)

Betty

Never had noticed a JB til I bought a few crape myrtles a few weeks ago. Now I have got them all over the front yard. I am thinking about putting the attachment on my vacuum cleaner and start sucking them up. It seems environmentally friendly and it will make me feel better also.

Betty, you go you sexy woman! No rum here, but plenty of rye to swig for some of that Sevin ;)

This forum is the Japanese beetle soap opera...

Hilarious though...
Nathan

I'm still thinking about Ann's statement that the soil is soft enough for them to come out. I am amazed the little monsters made it out of the ground, but I have seen them under the mulch. They cannot be deep because here is is DRY. If I ever find their "hole", I'm gonna blast that hole!!!

Carla

Nathan, in all likelihood the latest soap-opera turn is actually more grotesque than you could know.

Never mind.

Aside from killing bees or other beneficials, just think what your pictures would look like all doodied up with insecticides.
Guys, you are preaching to the choir, I DETEST them but I am not spending my time outside in the heat and humidity murdering JB's. But make no mistake, I HATE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carla

Bump. Some ones need refreshment.

BB,

Can you expound a little more on your comment "Some ones need refreshment" huh?

Are you resurrecting this thread? Was there some point you wanted to bring up? I'm itchin' to know!

BTW, JB's--- not so bad! Where did they all go? I still have a few but I think you & I scared them off LOL!

Betty