spaghetina: It's true that many folks on this forum have a lot of experience with amendments and improving soil health. I suspect it's the subject of redwood which is unfamiliar to many of us. In most of the country, we don't have giant redwoods in the neighborhood :-)

Someone in your other thread said that redwood has alleopathic properties. Researching that might be a good place to start, or have you done that already?

But wood chips in general make a good addition to compost. They can take a long time to break down, depending on size. Generally most people recommend using wood and wood products on top of the soil, though, rather than tilling in. Wood is high in carbon which can tie up nitrogen if tilled into soil.

I doubt that this information is very helpful, chances are that you know these things.

Karen

I tried to look up whether or not redwood has alleopathic properties or not, but couldn't find anything about it. I keep seeing walnut pop up, but that one I knew. I guess what has me confused is that in certain soil mixes, parts are comprised of bark fines, or small bark nuggets, and I thought they were conifer barks. Adding further to my confusion is the fact that the landscape supply company I'd be buying this stuff from recommends that their redwood compost be added to one of their soil mixes in order to make it suitable for use in raised beds. But of course, you can't always trust what's coming out of the mouth of someone who's trying to sell you something.

I forgot that redwood is kind of specific to this area. I can't find cedar for the life of me, but redwood - no problem.

Ah ha. Thanks, gardengal! It sounds like it'd make for a decent filler/bulking agent, but not necessarily something that's beneficial to add to the soil, does that sound about right? It's only $5/cu yd. cheaper than finished compost, so if it's not going to be of any benefit, it seems like maybe it's better if I just skip it.

You might be able to get aged manure free via craigslist, depending on what part of the Bay Area you're in....

Dear Spag,

Not sure where in the Bay Area you are, but it does not really matter. Go to Craigslist for the Bay Area and you will find a bunch of Horse Manure people who will you come pick up aged manure for free.

If you are in the East Bay or South Bay then Calaveras road has a BUNCH of horse farms happy to let you come take as much as you want. I use a guy there who just drops 2/3 of a cubic yard via his kubota into my truck every few months.

There is also a guy who lists on craigs on the penninsula, but I can't remember exactly where he is over there.

North bay or over the bridge also has tons of places.

Much easier than waiting the year or so for the redwood to break down enough....

Heya Kiki! :) I do actually have a source in Woodside for some horse manure, but it is all still identifiable, and comes with a lot of pine shavings mixed in. I was told it'd been sitting for months and months, and a lot of the stuff from the middle of the pile had been there for long enough to become really composted, but I'm not really sure what it should look like. Once it's been aged long enough to be used directly in my raised veggie beds, will it look like regular black compost, or will it still resemble broken down horse manure?

"Once it's been aged long enough to be used directly in my raised veggie beds, will it look like regular black compost, or will it still resemble broken down horse manure?"

If it has been sitting months and months before you get it, I would stick it right into the raised beds, ideally under some other ingredient so that it takes a little time for plant roots to get to it. It will still resemble horse manure. I hope that doesn't frighten you. :-) The plants don't care what it looks like! I use horse manure to weigh down the fall leaves I put in my beds. The plants love it, grow right through it, and I have gazillions of worms.

Horse manure needs to compost for a very long time (a few years) for it to not still look like horse manure. If you are worried about how old it is, make a pile of it someplace in your yard and use it in a few months.

Marcia

Spag,

It will basically look like horse manure still. Since you are sourcing in Woodside I am going to assume you are on the penninsula. That makes your soil a bit better than mine (concrete solid clay).

My methodology will be a bit different from yours, but here is what I do. I made a screen out of just a piece of 1/2" steel netting (like chicken wire) and nailed it to a wood frame from old 2x4's. Then I screen the manure thru this to break down the clumps into 1/2" size. ( I do this bothto reduce the "clumping" of the manure and to make sure not too much "foreign" matter gets into the beds.

I then laid out where my raised beds were going to be and dug 8-12" of the clay out (dang stuff is like concrete!). Then I built my 12" raised beds over the top of that hole. Once that was done I put my screened horse manure in (that brought the "soil" level back to the original ground line) and dug that manure into the clay (evening out the soikld condition as much as possible). So far I have "prepped" 3 6x8 foot beds this way using about 4 cubic yards of screened manure. Now I have lasagna bedded up to the top of the 12" raised bed for the fall-winter (alternate 3" layers of shredded paper mixed with tree clippings/leaves and "grens") Those beds will then be topped off with the compost piles I have running in spring to bring the level back to the top of the raised bed (the lasagna bedding will reduce by about 1/2-2/3 as it composts).

Its a few weekends of work, but worth the effort.

I would suggest to you that you probably won't need to go as far as I have since your original soil is probably better than this "santa clara clay" (as I keep hearing it called) I have. So you probab;y can just make the raised bed and turn the soil over with some of the manure, then just keep toppping it with the compost as needed...... Its the first "conditioning" that always takes the most work.

Oh and the pine shavings are no problem at all, they will break down over time and won;t hurt the plants

I did landscaping in the Palo Alto area for 20 years. Redwood compost is the basic soil amendment. Up here in WA we use doug fir or hemlock because that's what's logged here. Down there, it's redwood.

Of course it's beneficial. Bulky organic matter like composted bark lets the clay breathe and percolate and stimulates microbial activity. Low in nitrogen of course, but you can add that too. I used to get a bagged blend of redwood with 15% chicken manure. I think the brand name was Eureka or Gold Rush but that's probably changed some time in the decade since I left. I bought most of my stuff from Wegman's in Redwood City, on Woodside Rd. Lyngso's at the Port probably has something similar in bulk.

It's absolutely the best soil amendment for that clay you have down there. The redwood is a bit slower to decompose than bark from other trees but that's a plus, as it's opening up the clay for that much longer. Don't worry, you'll still need to add more every year, it's not that slow.

Horse manure is good too, especially with bedding material mixed in. If it's been sitting for months then it's old enough.

Up here I have glacial gravelly till soil, which does not need opening up. It's nice to not have to worry about water infiltration or root rot, but sometimes I wish I had clay again. Clay retains water and nutrients, where gravel does not. Everything's nitrogen deficient here. I don't add bulk to the soil anymore, now all I add is anything with humic acid or slow-release nitrogen.

The last time I was in a redwood forest, I was a teenager circa 1965. I seem to remember that there were a lot of very big rotting logs lying on the ground. I'm guessing they might be hundreds of years old. Are these fallen trees protected by law? Otherwise, why not hack them apart and load your car with garbage bags full of rotten redwood?

I also seem to remember that the soil in the redwood forest was non-sticky tan colored clay without much humus.

I live in a redwood forest in Northern California. You’re right, the soil they grow in is terrible and often full of clay. I frequently have piles of redwood chips left over from tree removal jobs and these chips are wonderful for mulch and garden pathways. I currently have a pile that’s largely decomposed into “soil” and I’m screening the larger chips out of it. What goes through the screen I’ll add to the naturally clay-like soil in the garden, along with 15% nitrogen of some kind, probably composted chicken or horse manure. I’ll probably add at least 1/3 redwood to this naturally heavy soil.

The last thing to consider is whether your plants are acid loving. Redwood is acid, so rhododendrons, hydrangeas, Japanese mapes love it. Not all plants love acid soil, so you might need to add something to balance the pH.

I use composted horse manure too, and it’s great in the garden because it’s not hot or salty like chicken and steer manure. However, horses are often given a lot of antibiotics and wormers, and these drugs will end up in your plants. Might be of concern to you if you are amending a veggie garden and care about chemicals. I have a source for manure from horses that aren’t given any drugs, so I’m fortunate.

Redwood forest compost IsGREATIS GREAT for the soil..... Mix it up with some steer manure and you've got some great soil